American Axle Strike: Day two(I crossed a picket-line today for the first time.)

[aircooled]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: aircooled
You would never own a foreign car? even if it was built is the US by american workers?

final assembly is not the only process in building a car.

You should feel fortunate that the American worker is being paid to build 'foreign' cars when they could just keep it in their own country.

Ford = Mazda. Chevy = Isuzu. and we all now that Chrysler is now Daimler. Almost every foreign car company builds cars in the US by US workers (and vice/versa). Personally I don't care who designed it or built it as long as it works properly and lasts.. Let the free market decide what I buy.

 

[Nebor]

I'd still stick to cars built outside the US... The higher end Jags, Volvos and BMWs are still built in Europe and shipped over.

 

[Squisher]

I can say without any doubt in in my mind, I have never needed a union to keep my job.

I have never had an employer that didn't value my services.

But, who hasn't seen inequities by employers(favoritism, nepotism, etc.)? It is these times you see the value of a union.

It's funny, two of the highest Union officials in the die-room are computer wonks also. We have spent a great deal of time discussing the pros and minuses of unions. Even though I have my opinions, I respect theirs and am the recipient of many union benefits.

I cannot turn my back on those principles that I've benefited from.





I took a vacation day tomorrow, just to delay the inevitable. Hopefully they'll settle by monday.

 

[stnicralisk]

Originally posted by: Squisher

Originally posted by: aircooled
You would never own a foreign car? even if it was built is the US by american workers?

That is something that to this day that I find troubling. You've got American car-maker's cars being made in foreign lands and foreign car makers making quality cars here.

As of right now, I'm keeping to American cars being made by American car-makers.

Kinda limits my choices, doesn't it?

I am afraid that most of the Japanese cars have more than final assembly in america. Toyota is bringing another factory here. (not aimed at you but more the guy that said "final assembly is hardly built in the US" because he obviously doesnt realize whats been going on in the car industry)

Fords are being built outside the country. I think at this time under the Toyota brand only the Celica is built outside - you can tell by the serial. JDxxxxxxxxx

 

I crossed the picket line for Verizon.
Made great money, and couldn't care less about the people striking.

 

[IshmaelLeaver]

I would say that, on the whole, unions are bad because they make it nearly impossible to fire deadwood. However, some industries are pretty unethical. If it weren't for unions, some people would make diddly squat and get no benefits.

In high school, I worked part-time in a grocery store and got >$11 an hour and full medical and dental. If that was a non-union job, I'd probably have made $7 an hour and had to pay for coverage.

 

[Squisher]

Update I heard on the radio this morning - Day Two:

Two GM plants to shut production today. One making Silverados.

One DMC plant to shut production.

Detroit News article


Gotta love - Just In time.


BTW- I took a vacation day today, hopefully they'll get this done by monday. I heard the CEO is at the bargaining table.

 

[hans007]

Originally posted by: Squisher
I have fellow Die-room employees that have been laid off for three years that are collecting 40 hrs. of full pay (about $70K/yr.) and have jobs making the same on the outside.

How can an employer be expected to keep this up?

unions are asking for too much in a lot of places now. it is very hard to compete in a lot of sectors of business nowadays, and when long shoremen are asking for $60 an hour, or grocery baggers $18 an hour + full health , it is bound to cause a strike.

margins are just too small and the market place too competitive. for example the CA supermarket strike. do you really think that in a truly free market that grocery baggers are worth 17-18 an hour + full benefits and pension. right....

walmart competes in the same market place and is moving into supermarkets in CA and to do business things need to be changed, or all the supermarkets close.

the computer OEM business is basically completely gone from america. my father works for a oem, and well they paid their employees $7 an hour to assemble a very popular brand of computers in southern california. this was down from the $10 an hour the company that used to do it paid in kentucky.

anyhow, the union was very weak because they knew they had no leverage. last year all manufacturing and refurbishing was moved to mexico because of gray davis' unreasonably expensive workman's compensation and all 300 workers basically lost their jobs.

but that is the cost of competition in america. i think workers need to understand that they can get whats fair, that is what unions originally came for. but now most unions just wait for their CBAs to expire so they can always demand more, and the makes companies less competitive and will make them die.

 

[Red Dawn]

If given the choice to belong to a Union and make decent wages with good benefits or not belongimg to a Union and be at the mercy of the Suits running the Company I'd take Union any day.

 

[hans007]

Originally posted by: stnicralisk

Originally posted by: Squisher

Originally posted by: aircooled
You would never own a foreign car? even if it was built is the US by american workers?

That is something that to this day that I find troubling. You've got American car-maker's cars being made in foreign lands and foreign car makers making quality cars here.

As of right now, I'm keeping to American cars being made by American car-makers.

Kinda limits my choices, doesn't it?

I am afraid that most of the Japanese cars have more than final assembly in america. Toyota is bringing another factory here. (not aimed at you but more the guy that said "final assembly is hardly built in the US" because he obviously doesnt realize whats been going on in the car industry)

Fords are being built outside the country. I think at this time under the Toyota brand only the Celica is built outside - you can tell by the serial. JDxxxxxxxxx

some toyotas are made in canada too because of nafta.
the reason for building cars here is if less than 50% of the parts are made outside of america it counts as an american car. even on insurance.
they do not build the cars here because we have better labor, its because we have relatively cheaper labor, and nafta.

german car companies are really getting screwed as it is right now. the euro and the very very high labor costs there are making european cars more and more expensive. they have like a month of vacation or more in some countries in europe. plus the euro's high value relative to the dollar makes labor even cost more due to fixed costs.


for example bmw's new X3 suv, is not even made in germany nor by bmw. it was subcontracted to an austrian manufacturer. i would not be surprised to see bmws manufactured in america soon too.

 

[Squisher]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
If given the choice to belong to a Union and make decent wages with good benefits or not belongimg to a Union and be at the mercy of the Suits running the Company I'd take Union any day.

There is certainly a level of comfort and feeling of equality to working in a union shop, but there is also a tendency to become jaded when co-workers who get paid as much as you do less.

 

[ScoobMaster]

You think you have it bad - I do computer support for a local K-12 school district and have to deal with the bane of all evil (next to the Trial Lawyers Association) --> TEACHER UNIONS and the NEA!

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: ScoobMaster
You think you have it bad - I do computer support for a local K-12 school district and have to deal with the bane of all evil (next to the Trial Lawyers Association) --> TEACHER UNIONS and the NEA!

Dude, just doing computer support for a school district sucks. Worse job I have ever had! Fscking Commie Teachers always think they know it all when actually all they really know is how to fsck things up. Don't even get me started on the snotgobbling students!

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: rahvin

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: aircooled
You would never own a foreign car? even if it was built is the US by american workers?

final assembly is not the only process in building a car.

By federal law all stickers on the windows of new cars include the percentage of the car that was constructed in the US and percentage constructed abroad, this includes all aspects of the car from parts to final assembly. Most "foreign" cars that are popular models have higher percentages of American construction than "American" cars. Don't believe me? Go down and look at that toyota camary that is 70% US an then go look at the GM's that are 40%.

The Camry is 55%, just above the limit to say it is built in America. The Taurus is 80% American, the Accord is 65% domestic. These numbers are once you factor out the BS quotient of 85% and 75% for Accord and Camry, since both auto makers factor in marketing and sales expenses into the parts distribution.

An interesting article.

Consider also the potentially devastating impact if even one of our three domestic automakers-each of which has come close in the last decade--goes under. On average, each Big Three assembly plant provides nearly 2,700 jobs, not to mention the 11,000 positions in powertrain, stamping, parts and component plants, plus another 14,000 at non-manufacturing suppliers.

 

[Squisher]

I'm IMing with one of my buds at work right now.

Word on the street is that picketers are throwing down nails to our entrances to the plant.



I might be carpooling come monday. I've got a '96 Escort with Nailguard tires.

Anybody know where I can get a bullet proof vest?

Hope I get laid off by monday.

 

[ScoobMaster]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: ScoobMaster
You think you have it bad - I do computer support for a local K-12 school district and have to deal with the bane of all evil (next to the Trial Lawyers Association) --> TEACHER UNIONS and the NEA!

Dude, just doing computer support for a school district sucks. Worse job I have ever had! Fscking Commie Teachers always think they know it all when actually all they really know is how to fsck things up. Don't even get me started on the snotgobbling students!

I take it I have your sympathies then

 

[Hammer]

i'd laugh if someone called me a scab. hahaha. fvcking unions.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: ScoobMaster

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: ScoobMaster
You think you have it bad - I do computer support for a local K-12 school district and have to deal with the bane of all evil (next to the Trial Lawyers Association) --> TEACHER UNIONS and the NEA!

Dude, just doing computer support for a school district sucks. Worse job I have ever had! Fscking Commie Teachers always think they know it all when actually all they really know is how to fsck things up. Don't even get me started on the snotgobbling students!

I take it I have your sympathies then

Yes you do

 

[dquan97]

The Guaranteed Income Stream is unfair to the employer, since the employee doesn't have the incentive to find work during the 42 weeks

 

[Squisher]

Originally posted by: dquan97
The Guaranteed Income Stream is unfair to the employer, since the employee doesn't have the incentive to find work during the 42 weeks

Before the 42 weeks you collect 95% of you pay between unempoyment and Sub pay, then at the 42 week mark you start collect a paycheck again until the end of the contract.

 

[Squisher]

News flash: Tenative settlement has been made, but three more GM plants have been idled.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: ScoobMaster

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: ScoobMaster
You think you have it bad - I do computer support for a local K-12 school district and have to deal with the bane of all evil (next to the Trial Lawyers Association) --> TEACHER UNIONS and the NEA!

Dude, just doing computer support for a school district sucks. Worse job I have ever had! Fscking Commie Teachers always think they know it all when actually all they really know is how to fsck things up. Don't even get me started on the snotgobbling students!

I take it I have your sympathies then

Yes you do

I did that while in HS. I actually loved it.

I know, I know, I'm going to hell.

 

[Jfrag Teh Foul]

Originally posted by: ScoobMaster
You think you have it bad - I do computer support for a local K-12 school district and have to deal with the bane of all evil (next to the Trial Lawyers Association) --> TEACHER UNIONS and the NEA!

Yeah, the NEA suck bawlz. Sweaty ones.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: Squisher
I have fellow Die-room employees that have been laid off for three years that are collecting 40 hrs. of full pay (about $70K/yr.) and have jobs making the same on the outside.

How can an employer be expected to keep this up?

Bam, exactly. And people scream and holler when jobs get sent overseas.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
If given the choice to belong to a Union and make decent wages with good benefits or not belongimg to a Union and be at the mercy of the Suits running the Company I'd take Union any day.

Funny, in my company, the employees that don't belong to unions make better money and have better benefits. Mercy? Everybody is at the mercy of someone else in the work environment, even the CEO.