American Airlines stock crashes, burns. Dramatic graph added!

[ultimatebob]

LOL, sounds like someone doesn't understand how Ch. 11 bankruptcy normally works...

Yeah... that stock is likely worthless now... Just like GM's stock was after it went Chapter 11.

 

[K1052]

flew them transatlantic and US domestic a few months ago. Their hard product is light years behind European and Asian legacy carriers. Planes are old and worn out and so are their cabin crews. They should rename it Ghetto Airlines. When flying transatlantic, I try to avoid them (and the other USA legacy carriers).

Yep, their international products have suffered for years particularly in comparison to the foreign flags. They'll probably end up code sharing a lot more to BA until they can regroup and improve, which will be a number of years down the line.

 

[K1052]

That and they up and disappeared from all the travel sites earlier this year.

Wasn't a great choice to start wars with the aggregators via legal battles with dubious outcomes.

 

[K1052]

Thats a British company isnt it?

Minority owned by Virgin Group (Branson). A US private equity company holds the majority of the stock, required by US law. They are actually run by a former AA exec.

Their service/planes are light years ahead of any other domestic IMO and their First Class product beats the pants off anything the majors offer here. I am very happy they serve SFO out of ORD now.

 

[freegeeks]

Yep, their international products have suffered for years particularly in comparison to the foreign flags. They'll probably end up code sharing a lot more to BA until they can regroup and improve, which will be a number of years down the line.

the biggest problem are their business class offers. The real money is still in business class travel and they simply can not compete compared with BA, Swiss, AF, Lufthansa. It's even worse for Asian markets because of SIA and other top class carriers. Ch 11 alone will not help them, they real need to invest in their product or they will go broke anyway

 

[davmat787]

The Airlines should be Nationalized, it's obvious they can't run themselves in the free market despite charging insane fees for baggage and changing flights.

Hey McPwneD, you realize airline tickets are something like 40% cheaper (dollar adjusted) since deregulation right? That more people than ever can fly, and not just the upper classes? I thought this would be something you would be for based on your maniacal partisan ravings in P&N.

 

[sportage]

Was deregulation the root of all evil?
Frontline (PBS) reran their story on the cost of flying cheap.
Interesting...again, to watch.
You might buy a ticket from a name brand airline, but actually end up flying on "joe and billy bob's one working engine air express". The point being, things are not as they appear, when flying.
Im sure AA had a choice. Either play the bait and switch game, as so many others do, or stay true to their brand. A bet they eventually lost...

Why bail them out? They would only be forced into playing the game the dirty way from then on.
Crash and burn... literally.

 

[davmat787]

Was deregulation the root of all evil?
Frontline (PBS) reran their story on the cost of flying cheap.
Interesting...again, to watch.
You might buy a ticket from a name brand airline, but actually end up flying on "joe and billy bob's one working engine air express". The point being, things are not as they appear, when flying.
Im sure AA had a choice. Either play the bait and switch game, as so many others do, or stay true to their brand. A bet they eventually lost...

Why bail them out? They would only be forced into playing the game the dirty way from then on.
Crash and burn... literally.

Huh? Are you talking about Code Sharing?

 

[ichy]

Was deregulation the root of all evil?

What evil? Airline travel is astoundingly safe, and more affordable than at any other point in history. Sure the service sucks, but I fly to get from point A to point B. If you want to be treated better fly in business or first class, it's still cheaper than flying was before deregulation.

 

[JTsyo]

Yeah... that stock is likely worthless now... Just like GM's stock was after it went Chapter 11.

How come it's still be traded? I would think there would be no buyers. Are people expecting partial value?

 

[ichy]

I've had exactly 3 flights on United.

First one - fine.
Second one - fine.

Third one - they overbooked. They bumped me because I only checked in at the gate 50 minutes prior to the flight (was a connection - got off first leg, went straight to gate). I get that sometimes shit happens - but here's what fucking FRIED MY ASS about the whole thing - they had room in first class they tried to sell me.

That's right - pay for first class or wait for the next flight - 11 hours later.

Being in my early 20s, I didn't have the $700 they were asking for the ticket, so the plane took off with empty seats, while I watched it.

That's astonishingly crappy on their part.

I actually had a very good experience with United last spring. I'd purchased an open-jaw ticket, Washington DC to Madrid one way and Paris to Washington on the return flight. The plan was fly to Madrid, catch an EasyJet flight to Paris a few days later, spend a few days there and then head home.

Anyways, the day I'm scheduled to head to Paris that stupid Icelandic volcano acts up. My flight to Paris is canceled, I'm re-booked for the next day and I spend an extra day in Madrid. Second attempt rolls around and my flight is canceled again. At this point I'm seriously worried I won't be able to get to Paris in time to make my flight back to the US. I go to the United desk and without any fuss and without charging a fee they rebook me on that day's flight from Madrid back to Washington. I still appreciate how they helped me out there.

 

[feralkid]

Except it is hard to go from New York to Tokyo, nonstop in a Boeing 737.

It's pretty hard to go anywhere nonstop on Southwest Air.

 

[ichy]

How come it's still be traded? I would think there would be no buyers. Are people expecting partial value?

Speculators I'm guessing, hoping to get a few cents per share once the "old" AMR is liquidated. Either that or fools who don't understand how Ch. 11 works. I remember after GM went into Ch. 11 some people were still trading the old GM's shares even after the CEO came out and said those shares are worthless, do not buy them.

 

[Sonikku]

There goes all my 33,000 unused frequent flier miles.

Damn.

Look on the bright side. With the way airlines give "preference" to people willing to give up 2 miles for every one for the few FF miles seats available, in a way, you only lost 16,500.

 

[K1052]

the biggest problem are their business class offers. The real money is still in business class travel and they simply can not compete compared with BA, Swiss, AF, Lufthansa. It's even worse for Asian markets because of SIA and other top class carriers. Ch 11 alone will not help them, they real need to invest in their product or they will go broke anyway

They need to buy new metal and a lot of it to really improve their international product. AA has some 777-300ERs on order but not nearly enough to make a big difference. They need to be ordering more 777s, the 787, and either the 747-8 or A380 for high capacity international 3 class. The 757s and 767s need to start coming out of their fleet if they plan on keeping up with the rest of the world. Hopefully the chapter 11 proceedings will let them shorten up the leases on those and the remaining MD-80s so they can renew the fleet sooner.

 

[JTsyo]

Speculators I'm guessing, hoping to get a few cents per share once the "old" AMR is liquidated. Either that or fools who don't understand how Ch. 11 works. I remember after GM went into Ch. 11 some people were still trading the old GM's shares even after the CEO came out and said those shares are worthless, do not buy them.

I was one of the fools. Luckily I was able to dump it this morning.

 

[freegeeks]

They need to buy new metal and a lot of it to really improve their international product. AA has some 777-300ERs on order but not nearly enough to make a big difference. They need to be ordering more 777s, the 787, and either the 747-8 or A380 for high capacity international 3 class. The 757s and 767s need to start coming out of their fleet if they plan on keeping up with the rest of the world. Hopefully the chapter 11 proceedings will let them shorten up the leases on those and the remaining MD-80s so they can renew the fleet sooner.

I totally agree. They are also not competitve pricewise, especially for their business class. BA is 85% of the time cheaper for a transatlantic business class ticket, and they have a vastly superior product. I'm flying business class to Australia with Singapore Airlines in March next year on the A380. If you see the level of service they are offering, then you realize how much catching up AA has to do...

It's a shame really, USA carriers were the benchmark not that long ago...

 

[evident]

That's astonishingly crappy on their part.

I actually had a very good experience with United last spring. I'd purchased an open-jaw ticket, Washington DC to Madrid one way and Paris to Washington on the return flight. The plan was fly to Madrid, catch an EasyJet flight to Paris a few days later, spend a few days there and then head home.

Anyways, the day I'm scheduled to head to Paris that stupid Icelandic volcano acts up. My flight to Paris is canceled, I'm re-booked for the next day and I spend an extra day in Madrid. Second attempt rolls around and my flight is canceled again. At this point I'm seriously worried I won't be able to get to Paris in time to make my flight back to the US. I go to the United desk and without any fuss and without charging a fee they rebook me on that day's flight from Madrid back to Washington. I still appreciate how they helped me out there.

+1 for United, although i'm biased because I have uber status with them. People working their phone lines are pretty good and will try to help you as much as possible from what I noticed.

only thing that sucks about them is they don't fly to fiji anymore!

btw, Is the reason why legacy US carriers have a tough time competing internationally because other countries' flag carriers get gov't subsidies? I feel that may be part of the problem.

 

[ichy]

btw, Is the reason why legacy US carriers have a tough time competing internationally because other countries' flag carriers get gov't subsidies? I feel that may be part of the problem.

No. Most governments stopped doing that a long time ago. Hell, Air France isn't really French anymore (it's a combo French & Dutch company since the merger with KLM) and BA became much better once they were pulled off the government teat. Swiss isn't really Swiss either (owned by Lufthansa) etc etc etc.

 

[ichy]

They need to buy new metal and a lot of it to really improve their international product. AA has some 777-300ERs on order but not nearly enough to make a big difference. They need to be ordering more 777s, the 787, and either the 747-8 or A380 for high capacity international 3 class. The 757s and 767s need to start coming out of their fleet if they plan on keeping up with the rest of the world. Hopefully the chapter 11 proceedings will let them shorten up the leases on those and the remaining MD-80s so they can renew the fleet sooner.

You can refurbish cabins without ordering brand new planes. AA's 777-200s may not be the newest planes out there anymore but that's no excuse for having a crappy business class product.

 

[feralkid]

I totally agree. They are also not competitve pricewise, especially for their business class. BA is 85% of the time cheaper for a transatlantic business class ticket, and they have a vastly superior product. I'm flying business class to Australia with Singapore Airlines in March next year on the A380. If you see the level of service they are offering, then you realize how much catching up AA has to do...

It's a shame really, USA carriers were the benchmark not that long ago...

Actually it was pretty long ago, especially for international.

Enjoy that Singapore air flight...best service I've ever experienced; even on an old 747.

 

[K1052]

You can refurbish cabins without ordering brand new planes. AA's 777-200s may not be the newest planes out there anymore but that's no excuse for having a crappy business class product.

They should keep all their 777s. The 757s need to be pulled off international routes ASAP and laid off to the cargo operators as soon as practical. They're tired, have increasing maint costs, and burn too much fuel.

They can wring some more life out of the 767s but the upgrades to F and J have been pretty tepid in comparison to the competition. They're going to have to redo them again. AA also should exercise all options to replace these with 787s say by the end of the decade.

 

[freegeeks]

Actually it was pretty long ago, especially for international.

Enjoy that Singapore air flight...best service I've ever experienced; even on an old 747.

I did Brussels-JFK-San-Francisco-Las Vegas-Chicago-Brussels back in June with AA.
I had a ride on the 767, 757 and MD-80 for these legs. What struck me how worn out all the cabins were. I don't care about personal entertainment systems (I have my ipad for that) and all that stuff but I was quite shocked about the state of the cabins. Stains on seats, broken armrest, etc ...
You could really see that the cabin crew was not motivated and they all looked pretty unhappy to me

 

[freegeeks]

They should keep all their 777s. The 757s need to be pulled off international routes ASAP and laid off to the cargo operators as soon as practical. They're tired, have increasing maint costs, and burn too much fuel.

They can wring some more life out of the 767s but the upgrades to F and J have been pretty tepid in comparison to the competition. They're going to have to redo them again. AA also should exercise all options to replace these with 787s say by the end of the decade.

they launched their biggest aircraft order in history not that long ago, big enough to replace basically their whole fleet. The AMR management knows that they have to do something, I just wonder how they are going to finance all of this

 

[Bateluer]

You might buy a ticket from a name brand airline, but actually end up flying on "joe and billy bob's one working engine air express". The point being, things are not as they appear, when flying.

Are you flying on some tiny charter plane in a remote backwater? I've flown on various regional airlines and the worst thats ever happened has been a lost suitcase of clothing. Usually their aircraft are newer, cleaner, and boast modern tech features that I don't usually see on United or Continental.

It's pretty hard to go anywhere nonstop on Southwest Air.

Southwest has quite a few nonstop fares, flown with them many times.