American Agents Shot, One Killed in Mexico

[Nebor]

Mexico is not oppressed. It's a right wing paradise. About 20 families control all wealth, another 5% works for them as managers, heavies and servants the "middle class" mostly all white and the rest in poverty, misery and destitution with little in the way of redistribution..

Blah blah blah, who cares what it is, we can fix it, and do it better. We've had good practice in Iraq and Afghanistan. These drug warriors aren't willing to blow themselves up to kill us either.

 

[BeauJangles]

Recall all the troops in Afghanistan and Iraq. Deploy them on the border. Problem solved.

Thank god that is illegal in this country.

 

[BeauJangles]

Start actually fining, and imprisoning business owners that hire illegals would be a great start. If you want to slow the violent drug cartels roll than makes their primary sources of income legal. The benefits from both of these would be immediate, and drastic.

People's votes with their wallets don't lie -- this country wants, and needs, illegal immigrants to do the jobs that other people are unwilling to do based on their nature or based on their extremely low pay.

 

[Vette73]

What do you expect from an administration that's basically given up on enforcing the border?

.

Yea; hate to bring facts in a debate with a troll like you BUT...



Deportations Higher Under Obama Than Bush

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2010/07/26/128772646/deportations-higher-under-obama-than-bush

Obama Administration Immigration Deportations Exceed Bush’s Record

http://www.commondreams.org/newswire/2010/05/20-11


Damm muzzzlim liberal deporting more than those great Republicans. How dare he!!!


:biggrin:

Oh and there are more agents on the border now then before as well..

U.S. has more border patrol agents on the border with Mexico than ever

http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter...-more-border-patrol-agents-border-mexico-eve/

 

[GTaudiophile]

Recall all the troops in Afghanistan and Iraq. Deploy them on the border. Problem solved.

Could we at least recall all National Guard serving overseas to come secure our border with Mexico?

 

[Genx87]

I know bush and Reagan did so well with border security. Its those weak liberals who wont go to war. Fucking pussies.

Two wrongs make a right?

 

[hal2kilo]

What do you expect from an administration that's basically given up on enforcing the border?

Hell... they've come out and publicly stated that they are not interested in deporting illegals. They've sued states for trying to do the job that the feds won't. They've done just about everything except for their constitutionally mandated duty of securing the border.

Nothing new here.

The Obama administration has done more border enforcement than Bush or Reagan ever did. Now your fan boys in congress want to gut that budget.

Stop talking out your ass.

 

[Vette73]

Two wrongs make a right?

No but when you get right wing nuts like PeshakJang and others try to blame Obama it is right to point out this has been a ongoing issue and Obama has actually deported more than even Bushs record and has more agents at the Border then before.

I think we should do more, and we are. I just think it is not enough and trying to blame one person is dumb. Instead actions speaks louder then trolls pointing fingers.

I made a thread in OT about WhyTF anybody still goes there. I did not want to go there about 5 years ago for my honeymoon and its only got worse since then and spilling over to the US side now.

 

[trenchfoot]

Let's extrapolate this situation some. It's in the interest of every big business that uses manual labor to keep labor costs as low as possible to maximize profits. So it's in their own best interest to keep the borders wide open to let in as many illegals as possible to water down whatever leverage the citizens of this country have in the way of actually being legal citizens of our country.

If things keep going the way they do, there will be more illegal immigrants willing to take poverty level pay that their overwhelming presence has made possible than legal citizens looking for decent wages, thus forcing pay scales downward ever more to its lowest possible level. In time this effect will spread out into the middle income levels where those legal citizens will have to fight for jobs the same way the poor did and be forced to accept lower pay or go on welfare.

In this scenario, the rich are using the destitute illegal immigrants to lower wage scales to poverty levels AND get rid of the huge apes that's been on their backs since the early 1900's: the unions.

 

[PeshakJang]

Yea; hate to bring facts in a debate with a troll like you BUT...

Deportations Higher Under Obama Than Bush

Damm muzzzlim liberal deporting more than those great Republicans. How dare he!!!
http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter...-more-border-patrol-agents-border-mexico-eve/

I've already thoroughly disproved that lie, but for the sake of sportsmanship, let's go through this again.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2110994&highlight=deportations&page=2

Here's something interesting I just found with 10 minutes of research... pretty good example of the selective statistics used in the claim that Obama has deported a record number of immigrants:

http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/statistics/yearbook/2009/ois_yb_2009.pdf

DHS 2009 Statistics Yearbook

Table 36.
ALIENS REMOVED OR RETURNED FISCAL YEARS 1892 TO 2009

...

Notice that while Removals went up for FY 2009, Returns are as low as they have been since 1973

Difference?

Returns are the confirmed movement of an inadmissible or deportable alien out of the United States not based on an order of removal. Most of the voluntary returns are of Mexican
nationals who have been apprehended by the U.S. Border Patrol and are returned to Mexico.

Basically meaning that when an illegal alien is arrested, he can either volunteer to go home, leaving the possibility open for future return, or if he doesn't volunteer, he'll be legally ejected and barred from re-entry. Since the handbook notes that most returns are conducted by the border patrol, this is even more telling of the fact that border enforcement has significantly declined under Obama and the Democratic congress.

So basically, if you look at ALL the statistics for deportations, in Obama's first year, we deported almost 17% FEWER illegals than the year before, and since the Democrats took control of congress, total deportations have decreased dramatically.

In addition to that, here is something from WaPo that came out after I made that post, further analyzing the claim that Obama is setting deportation records:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/05/AR2010120503230.html


Basically, they were on track to deport less than the previous year, started running out of time, so they were directed to start counting deportations that they wouldn't otherwise count, and to increase "voluntary" returns... which is basically just saying, "You should go home."... for those illegals that committed crimes and would otherwise be tried and forcibly deported with an order to not return.

Even the head of the Immigration Agent Union says that the Director is concerned with numbers on paper and not actual enforcement:

Chris Crane, president of the American Federation of Government Employees National Council 118, the union that represents ICE immigration agents and officers, said offering voluntary return was not common practice for the agency. The union has been at odds with Morton over what it calls lax enforcement and gave him a no-confidence vote in June.



"It's breaking the rules to break the record," Crane said. "You don't change the way you do business to meet some quota. Morton said we don't do quotas. But that's what this is.

They talk about how a program was greatly expanded, whereby Customs and Border partrol agents would turn immigrants over to ICE, which they would otherwise deport themselves, so ICE could count them on their books.



You can read the rest of the article.


-----


Your chart is pretty disingenuous also. If you missed the footnote, the "record high numbers" at the end are projections that haven't occurred.

Oh and there are more agents on the border now then before as well..

U.S. has more border patrol agents on the border with Mexico than ever

http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...er-mexico-eve/

You forgot to mention that Bush is responsible for just about all of the increase in border security agents. BTW, that's in your link.


So basically, Obama hasn't seriously increased any sort of enforcement. He has appointed pro illegal-immigration organization leaders to his White House staff.



BTW He's also sued more states over immigration enforcement than any other president.

 

[ichy]

People's votes with their wallets don't lie -- this country wants, and needs, illegal immigrants to do the jobs that other people are unwilling to do based on their nature or based on their extremely low pay.

Nobody is entitled to dirt cheap labor. There's no such thing as a job an American won't do, although there are plenty that Americans won't do for $6/hour. God forbid that market forces force employers to pay a living wage to people who put in eight hours of honest work per day.

 

[ichy]

Could we at least recall all National Guard serving overseas to come secure our border with Mexico?

We'd be better off admitting that securing the border is a job for a paramilitary organization, not a law enforcement task. Create a service that's like a land based equivalent of the Coast Guard and use them for protecting the Southern border.

 

[PeshakJang]

We'd be better off admitting that securing the border is a job for a paramilitary organization, not a law enforcement task.

You do realize that law enforcement is paramilitary?

The CBP basically has the resources of the military, minus the firepower. They have the vehicles, the optics, the communications... problem being there are not nearly enough of them, and the physical infrastructure (fence) isn't there to aid them. That, and if they happen to shoot somebody, they'll most likely wind up in jail charged with a hate crime.

 

[BurnItDwn]

We should just annex mexico and legalize the drugs....

 

[OCGuy]

Thank god that is illegal in this country.

Not the National Guard. Problem solved.

Get our troops from where they don't need to be (mid-east), put them where they need to be (home).

Win-win.

 

[bfdd]

People's votes with their wallets don't lie -- this country wants, and needs, illegal immigrants to do the jobs that other people are unwilling to do based on their nature or based on their extremely low pay.

no it doesn't. this shit is asinine because the cost savings aren't being transfered completely to the customer and they are mostly used to increase profit margins of those hiring them. in fact if we got rid of it and had citizens doing those jobs we might be able to reign in some of the out of control cost of living in certain places around the country as Americans need to pay for things with the work they do. Fixing our illegal immigration problem will do a lot to help our nation and help Mexico. Mexico needs those poor there so they can rise up against the corruption of their shitty government.

 

[soundforbjt]

So why aren't the Red border states passing\enforcing laws about companies hiring illegal workers? Instead they go after Jose and let big business go scott free.

 

[waggy]

i never understood why it was against the law to have the military guarding the boarder. Hell shouldn't that be part of its job?

 

[Craig234]

i never understood why it was against the law to have the military guarding the boarder. Hell shouldn't that be part of its job?

How do I put this? I'll just try to explain.

It's against the law for the military to be deployed in the United States in peacetime.

This helps with things like maintaining freedom and democracy.

The military can 'protect our borders' in two other ways: it can go fight threats in foreign lands (as well as its real normal missions to protect corporate interests and US power), but of course, it can also be deployed in the US *in time of war* - when a foreign military has invaded us, and Congress declares war. Had the Japanese (or Vietnamese or Grenadians) landed in California, the US military could have fought them there.

But the idea of soldiers and tanks and helicopters occupying US cities, patrolling permanently, that's not the liberals' view of 'freedom'.

Now, some might try to split the hair between occupying New York and walking the desert at the border, but the laws are written for 'US land' not splitting that hair.

Hence our having a 'border patrol' civilian agency for peacetime.

In theory if you care that much, you could shift funding from the military for the patrol you want to the border patrol, and have THEM trained, armed, whatever.

FDR didn't even want the Pentagon he built to be permanent because of the power it gave the military to pressure the purse-holders nearby in Congress.

Having the military occupying the US isn't something pro-democracy people like the founding fathers thought was a good idea.

 

[CitizenKain]

So why aren't the Red border states passing\enforcing laws about companies hiring illegal workers? Instead they go after Jose and let big business go scott free.

Because that would require the rightwing to essentially go after itself. If you are beholden to a business that uses illegal labor, you aren't going after them when you get into office.

 

[xj0hnx]

But the idea of soldiers and tanks and helicopters occupying US cities, patrolling permanently, that's not the liberals' view of 'freedom'.

Who's talking about the military "occupying" cities, and patrolling them with tanks, and helicopters? Not all that many illegals crossing at border towns.

 

[OCGuy]

The "No-Military" point is moot, it can be done very easily.

 

[KMFJD]

Because that would require the rightwing to essentially go after itself. If you are beholden to a business that uses illegal labor, you aren't going after them when you get into office.

Just the right wing? please....democrats hire illegal's just as much as republicans, but you are right they won't go after the hand that feeds them...