America (lack of empathy and signs of a crumbling society)

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lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
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lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
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Societies have always had codes of behavior that they expected of their members.

In fact I think have shared values is essential to empathy and compassion. Unfortunately liberals have spent decades destroying any concept of share values, and then they wonder why people have no empathy for people with whom they share nothing. :hmm:



Empathy is however dependent on being able to find some connection with the other person.

It should be obvious why it is therefore impossible for most middle-class people to have empathy for someone who has children with multiple thug baby daddies.

How can you walk a mile in another person's shoes when they just lite them on fire?

I suspect most middle class people do have empathy for someone who has made bad choices that led to a particular outcome. In fact go to any homeless shelter and find out who gives or donates most in time and money, probably middle class people. even though a lot of homeless are in the situation because of poor choices.
 

Munky

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2005
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From Psychology of Today http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...k-empathy-the-most-telling-narcissistic-trait

Lack of empathy is one of the most striking features of people with narcissistic personality disorder. It's a hallmark of the disorder in the same way that fear of abandonment is in borderline personality disorder.

"Narcissists do not consider the pain they inflict on others; nor do they give any credence to others' perceptions," says Dr. Les Carter in the book Enough of You, Let's Talk About Me (p. 9). "They simply do not care about thoughts and feelings that conflict with their own." Do not expect them to listen, validate, understand, or support you.

This is exacerbated when the person has a touch of antisocial personality disorder.

You may want to re-read that statement, paying attention to the bolded part. Now unless you want to argue that all those Americans who did not fail at life are directly inflicting pain on those who did fail at life, and that their failure is somehow the result of the former group's actions... then this argument doesn't really apply here.

But I'm sure somewhere out there is a liberal foaming at the mouth that my lack of sympathy for someone who made poor life choices is a personality disorder. That we're all "equal" so if person A succeeds while person B fails, then there must necessarily be some conspiracy of oppression and discrimination. Not because person B also lived life by "feelings" and decided to pursue whatever felt good at the moment, not what would benefit him in the long term.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
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One suspects that the OP has discovered a secret passage to the Elemental Plane of Stupidity. Take these passages: "Yes, Empathy - supposedly a spontaneous reaction to the plight of our fellow humans -is now channeled through self-interested and bloated non-government organizations or multilateral outfits.

The vibrant world of private empathy has been replaced by faceless state largesse. Pity, mercy, the elation of giving are tax-deductible. "

Arguing that "non-government organizations or multilateral outfits" are "self-interested and bloated" while supporting these same functions by government is asinine in the extreme. Attacking private charity for being tax deductible is simply doubling down on stupidity. This is naught but yet another muddled attack on capitalism. Simply screaming "I'm a Marxist, gimme your stuff!" would be more honest and hardly less intelligent.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,879
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So we need more charity?

Probably, Matt, but all the money in the world is not the answer. By creating a culture that idolizes winners we have created contempt for ourselves when we lose and it is that feeling of worthlessness we won't face in ourselves that makes us emotionally dead to the pain of others. We hate them because they remind us of ourselves. All those poor sad folk in this thread who spit on empathy do so because they have the worst cases of self hate among us. They feel like losers and have no empathy for themselves. They deeply believe they are losers and feel they deserve to be.

You can't help them with charity because they will give none to themselves. This is why Jesus came for the poor and the broken. All their pretense at being winners had be washed away in sorrow and grief. They were open to healing.

So if you want to help people in need, Matt, you can't give them things directly, because, not valuing themselves, that don't value anything. You give by pretending to pay them for doing something, anything at all will do. You can help them if you make them feel they have earned what they get, because it's the only thing we value. When a person acquires a sense of self worth via achievement you give real charity. And it has to be done anonymously surreptitiously so that it doesn't look like a gift.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
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Empathy absolutely applies to situations people cause themselves.

Empathy isn't something that is deserved its the capacity to recognize emotions that are being experienced by another.
Sympathy and compassion are different.

Lack of empathy is a key component in sociopaths.
I don't disagree with your points, but the point of the first article is simply a muddled attack on conservatism via the progs' usual whipping dogs of capitalism and low taxes. Defining empathy as a desire to give your money to government to help others because "non-government organizations or multilateral outfits" are "self-interested and bloated" is simply too stupid to deserve empathy, sympathy or compassion.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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No he was talking about Empathy, you went and cherry picked one type of expressed empathy that you could use to foster your argument.

I am not cherry picking.
Another aspect to this . Is how "detached" everything is in America . Our Nation has poverty , there are poor , and homeless that need help . Yet no one is helping them . Detachment is alarming when we perceive all is well , but it is not well . The Stock Market gains after 4 years at an alarming rate . It's so much fun to own stocks these days, with the Dow Industrials and Wilshire 5000 index setting one new high after another, and the Standard & Poor's 500 within 1% of doing the same. Watching the value of your portfolio rise is such a delightful indoor sport. All this happiness and moneymaking (if only on paper) are what make Saturday's anniversary so interesting and educational. What anniversary, you ask? Why, the fourth anniversary of the market bottom, reached by all three of the major indicators on Mar. 9, 2009. You remember those days, don't you? It was a hideous time, with people losing their jobs, house prices collapsing, the world financial system teetering on the brink, and the U.S. stock market, as measured by the Wilshire, down a sickening 57% -- or $11.2 trillion—from its high 17 months earlier.Stock prices are "propped up" by millions of buyers who want to own stocks at these prices. Those of you who see another market crash just around the corner should stay out of the market. Those of us who moved money off the sidelines into stocks four years ago are pleased with our choices.Who believes this garbage is sustainable. The ONLY reason stocks are this high is because of Bernanke and his printing press. If you think an 8 trillion increase in debt and devaluation of the dollar is worth it, have at it. The stock market is generally a poor proxy for the economy. Both, however, are characterized by extreme inequality, with large amounts of spending power concentrated at the extremes. "Companies know and they've sort of noticed that the consumers in the middle are not doing so well,” said Chris Christopher, an economist at research firm IHS. “However, they've realized that the upper income brackets are doing fine. Then there's people that are living paycheck to paycheck that are always looking for a good deal," As Christopher portrayed it, that has produced a "bifurcation" of the stock market, with companies harvesting profits by targeting customers at either end of the income spectrum. “Those companies that stick to the middle tier just suffer,” he said. Central bank prints $85 billion every month. How much of that money makes it into the middle class pockets? In the town that launched the War on Poverty 48 years ago, the poor are getting poorer despite the government's help. And the rich are getting richer because of it.The top 5 percent of households in Washington, D.C., made more than $500,000 on average last year, while the bottom 20 percent earned less than $9,500 - a ratio of 54 to 1. That gap is up from 39 to 1 two decades ago. It's wider than in any of the 50 states and all but two major cities. This at a time when income inequality in the United States as a whole has risen to levels last seen in the years before the Great Depression. The federal government does redistribute wealth down to struggling Americans. But in the years since President Lyndon Johnson took aim at poverty in his first State of the Union address, there has been an increasingly strong crosscurrent: The government is redistributing wealth up, too - especially in the nation's capital.

This whole paragraph basically makes no sense unless you are expecting empathy to lead to action.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
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Measured, thoughtfully applied empathy with some requirements placed on it is a key component to being an adult who doesn't get taken advantage of.

This sounds like something a sociopath would say
They don't actually feel it, so they come up with some calculations to decide when to apply
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
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This sounds like something a sociopath would say
They don't actually feel it, so they come up with some calculations to decide when to apply

Are you telling us we're not supposed to use discretion? I strongly disagree. Empathy is to be a PART of our thought process... not completely overrule the rest of our thought process.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
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Are you telling us we're not supposed to use discretion? I strongly disagree. Empathy is to be a PART of our thought process... not completely overrule the rest of our thought process.

Nope, just a general statement.. don't take it personal
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
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Oldgamer

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
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Well since I brought up psychopathy and lack of empathy, I thought I would insert another interesting article from CNN that talks about America being a breeding ground for psycopathy. I know, I know, off topic, but it is interesting, especially in light of some of the comments on this thread it does make one wonder...lol

http://cnnradio.cnn.com/2012/11/09/cnn-profiles-the-psychopath-detector/


Quote from the article:
Dutton is author of the new book “The Wisdom of Psychopaths.”

As he explains in this interview, not all psychopaths are violent. In fact, there are many highly functioning psychopaths. One may even be your boss. And you can’t judge if a person is a psychopath by simply looking at him, or even from a brief conversation.

Dutton maintains that many people have great success in highly skilled fields not in spite of but BECAUSE of certain psychopathic traits, including a British neurosurgeon he interviewed.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
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Are you telling us we're not supposed to use discretion? I strongly disagree. Empathy is to be a PART of our thought process... not completely overrule the rest of our thought process.

To a "liberal" all that matters is intentions, results are not important.

When a drug addict asks you for money, you're supposed to give it to them, no questions asked, because then you're empathic and it makes you feel superior to others. Never mind that you just fueled his drug addiction.
 

Oldgamer

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,280
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No one including himself. For some people, "empathy" is a proxy whereby instead of acting themselves they demand the government do something - "you other people are mean for not fixing this problem I've identified."
Empathy has nothing to do with government... sheesh

See definition: em·pa·thy [em-puh-thee] Show IPA
noun
1.
the intellectual identification with or vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of another.
2.
the imaginative ascribing to an object, as a natural object or work of art, feelings or attitudes present in oneself: By means of empathy, a great painting becomes a mirror of the self.
Origin:
1900&#8211;05; < Greek empátheia affection, equivalent to em- em-2 + path- (base of páschein to suffer) + -eia -ia; present meaning translates German Einfühlung

Can be confused: empathy, sympathy (see synonym study at sympathy).

Synonyms
1. See sympathy.

sym·pa·thy [sim-puh-thee] Show IPA noun, plural sym·pa·thies, adjective
noun
1.
harmony of or agreement in feeling, as between persons or on the part of one person with respect to another.
2.
the harmony of feeling naturally existing between persons of like tastes or opinion or of congenial dispositions.
3.
the fact or power of sharing the feelings of another, especially in sorrow or trouble; fellow feeling, compassion, or commiseration.
4.
sympathies.
a.
feelings or impulses of compassion.
b.
feelings of favor, support, or loyalty: It's hard to tell where your sympathies lie.
5.
favorable or approving accord; favor or approval: He viewed the plan with sympathy and publicly backed it.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
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To a "liberal" all that matters is intentions, results are not important.

When a drug addict asks you for money, you're supposed to give it to them, no questions asked, because then you're empathic and it makes you feel superior to others. Never mind that you just fueled his drug addiction.

Do you actually know liberals that believe and do things like that?
 

Oldgamer

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,280
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To a "liberal" all that matters is intentions, results are not important.

When a drug addict asks you for money, you're supposed to give it to them, no questions asked, because then you're empathic and it makes you feel superior to others. Never mind that you just fueled his drug addiction.


Empathy doesn't mean you give money, again see the definition I posted.

Empathy is not charity..
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
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This sounds like something a sociopath would say
They don't actually feel it, so they come up with some calculations to decide when to apply

You can't go around feeling compassion for everything. If you feel empathy for the deer how would you be able to kill and eat it?

People innately feel greater empathy for those who are part of their family or "tribe". This is not something that is wrong.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
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You can't go around feeling compassion for everything. If you feel empathy for the deer how would you be able to kill and eat it?

People innately feel greater empathy for those who are part of their family or "tribe". This is not something that is wrong.
I don't really agree with your first point. If I see an injured deer I feel compassion; if I see a deer trapped and in distress I may try to free it, at some personal risk given that to the deer I'm a threat. And I can kill the deer and eat it, but I still have empathy for it. It was alive, and I killed it. Dead animals are sad, even the tasty ones.

I do agree with your latter point. People normally feel greater empathy the closer they feel to the creature in question, so I would free horrible empathy for my dead child, a bit less for a dead friend, somewhat less for a dead stranger, considerably less for a dead deer, and virtually none at all for a dead spider. This can get odd, e.g. people were much more angry at Michael Vic for fighting and killing dogs than at his fellow footballer who shot and killed an actual human being at a nightclub.
 

Oldgamer

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,280
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Your quoting the article, those are not things I specifically said. However you seem to be trying to say that I am saying empathy is charity, which is not what I have said in my posts. I have pointed out many times what empathy is, and what the definition is.