AMD's X2 A Failure Over At Tom's

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Pariah

Elite Member
Apr 16, 2000
7,357
20
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Unbelievable how off topic threads get here just bash another site, usually THG. Now granted, the original poster is a complete troll who started this thread with the intention of starting a flame war, but that doesn't excuse the 95% of posters who responded with equally off topic trolling for the other side.

The whole point of this article has zero to do with performance, none, zip, nada and practically all of you seem to have missed this point. It's a stress test to see how stable the platforms are under the worst conditions they will encounter. For those of you who didn't bother to read the article and just skip to the irrelevant benchmarks pages, here it is:


"We subject the two devices to a full week under a maximum load, while running applications chosen to reflect typical usage conditions. This will make clear what stability and product quality really mean and whether investing in them pays off for buyers."


Nothing in there about which is faster, we all already know the answer to that question, as there are dozens of sites that have benchmarks of these CPU's. What would be the point of running benchmarks for a week straight to determine performance of systems, when doing it for 15 minutes would give you all the data you need? They continue on:


"The questions to be answered are: how do these most powerful of CPUs behave under full load and how do they handle rising temperatures resulting from the tremendous amount of waste heat generated? We also deal with the topic of power consumption, as the cost of electricity and energy continues to go up all the time."


Again, nothing about performance. Since the dual core Intel CPU is detected as 4 CPU's by windows, in order for this stress test to be of any use, the system has to be running 4 applications assuming none of the 4 are SMP aware. If you don't, parts of the Intel CPU will be sitting around idle which isn't the point of a stress test. Now in order to make sure the systems are under the same load to make the test fair, the AMD system has to be running the same software. You can't have a valid stress test, while running different applications on the 2 systems.

The whole idea of this project is to try and make the systems crash and burn. That's what a stess test does. If one of them doesn't do it more often than the other, then the results would be considered inconclusive. The benchmarks page is worthless and not meant to do anything but tell you what the CPU's are doing while the systems are running. How many frames of James Bond equals 10FPS in Farcry? How many encodings of Michael Jackson equal 5 Open Office compressions? To try and figure out which system is performing better, that's the type of junk you will have to calculate.

Here is the only benchmark in this article that is actually being tested:

AMD: 1 reboot
Intel: 2 reboots

Advantage: AMD

That's it.

There's also the power issue, but I don't see any live updates of that except for the combined wattage used by both systems.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
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Originally posted by: porkster
It's amazing how much AMD fans will overlook the faults or base their purchases on generalisations.

* AMD X2 4800+ is not cheaper than Intel 840EE
Got any evidence? They appear to be going for about the same price to me. $1100 vs. $1000. Not much difference, with the Intel coming oout 10% costlier.
* The AMD X2 is to be sold as a multitasking CPU, so yes it is expected to multitask properly, which it is not doing!
really?
* It is unfair to expect the competing CPU to have features disabled. You can?t say disable Hyper Threading so as to stop Intel being shown as the better CPU.
*bzzzzt* Wrong. Do you see what I see? That's the HT-enabled one losing to all of the dual-core competition, with the nont-HT one winning.
* Both systems started with the same settings and the AMD failed the multitasking expectation in the test. Even if the test had a stability theme, the test still was to place a multitasking load on the systems..
...which it is doing, and doing fine. Yet somehow, AMD winning all but 1 test clearly shows it losing, and in a test that's badly designed to begin with. Right...
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
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Originally posted by: Chocolate Pi
FACTS:

1.) Each platform should represent the best that platform has to offer. DDR-400 for AMD, DDR2-667 for Intel.
2.) Intel gets more memory bandwidth, AMD ends up with superior timing. Both get what they need the most.
3.) Intel chip comes with hyper-threading, so guess what? It gets hyper-threading.
4.) Intel chip comes with higher clock speed, so guess what? It gets higher clock speed.
5.) AMD has a vastly superior design with less heat and wattage. Guess what it gets.
6.) The video encoding fisaco is not AMD's fault, nor the OS's fault. It's the user's, because the user has the ability to change it.
7.) Due to reliability problemsin addition to the above, this test proves and means nothing.
8.) AMD's dual-core processors still beat Intel's products senseless. No competition at all.
9.) However, I'm sure you could find SOME combination of 4 applications that would make the 840EE work better than the 4800+.
10.) There is no #10, but I thought it a good number to end on.

All fanboys, both sides, shut up. Please.

EDIT: The "Apples to Apples" analogy is horribly flawed. By that logic we should wait until Intel gets rid of netburst, as its contender is crippled by that while AMD's is not.
No, by that logic, a test with two tasks should be run, a test with three tasks, a test with four tasks, a test with five tasks, and maybe even a test with six tasks. Run for a day, switch to the next test run. Then show all their numbers. It's not apples to apples due to the tasks used and scheduling, not due to differences in the machines themselves.

Also, don't allow for rebooting. If a test app isn't stable, don't use it for a stress test! A stress test, by its nature, is over and failed on a single crash.
 

justly

Banned
Jul 25, 2003
493
0
0
Originally posted by: Pariah
Unbelievable how off topic threads get here just bash another site, usually THG. Now granted, the original poster is a complete troll who started this thread with the intention of starting a flame war, but that doesn't excuse the 95% of posters who responded with equally off topic trolling for the other side.

The whole point of this article has zero to do with performance, none, zip, nada and practically all of you seem to have missed this point. It's a stress test to see how stable the platforms are under the worst conditions they will encounter. For those of you who didn't bother to read the article and just skip to the irrelevant benchmarks pages, here it is:


"We subject the two devices to a full week under a maximum load, while running applications chosen to reflect typical usage conditions. This will make clear what stability and product quality really mean and whether investing in them pays off for buyers."


Nothing in there about which is faster, we all already know the answer to that question, as there are dozens of sites that have benchmarks of these CPU's. What would be the point of running benchmarks for a week straight to determine performance of systems, when doing it for 15 minutes would give you all the data you need? They continue on:


"The questions to be answered are: how do these most powerful of CPUs behave under full load and how do they handle rising temperatures resulting from the tremendous amount of waste heat generated? We also deal with the topic of power consumption, as the cost of electricity and energy continues to go up all the time."


Again, nothing about performance. Since the dual core Intel CPU is detected as 4 CPU's by windows, in order for this stress test to be of any use, the system has to be running 4 applications assuming none of the 4 are SMP aware. If you don't, parts of the Intel CPU will be sitting around idle which isn't the point of a stress test. Now in order to make sure the systems are under the same load to make the test fair, the AMD system has to be running the same software. You can't have a valid stress test, while running different applications on the 2 systems.

The whole idea of this project is to try and make the systems crash and burn. That's what a stess test does. If one of them doesn't do it more often than the other, then the results would be considered inconclusive. The benchmarks page is worthless and not meant to do anything but tell you what the CPU's are doing while the systems are running. How many frames of James Bond equals 10FPS in Farcry? How many encodings of Michael Jackson equal 5 Open Office compressions? To try and figure out which system is performing better, that's the type of junk you will have to calculate.

Here is the only benchmark in this article that is actually being tested:

AMD: 1 reboot
Intel: 2 reboots

Advantage: AMD

That's it.

There's also the power issue, but I don't see any live updates of that except for the combined wattage used by both systems.

I was thinking the same thing.

While I did attempt to make some conclusions from the scores, my main reason for doing so was to debunk the original post, thinking about it now I should have just let it go (like I usually do... oh well).
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,986
1
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Originally posted by: Duvie

Man shut the heck up....

Yep, constructiveness went out the door (again)...

as said by mechbgon and others who have been watching this more thoroughly then you "papsmear"...

If you knew anything you would have also known they screwed up the last stress test as well....I wont go into that story cause I know they are running your beloved preshot....

ROFLMAO. I was there for the "first" stress test too. And I'd hardly call sitting at your PC watching a web page refresh every few seconds as "watching thoroughly". If anything it speaks for the lack of a life some here have. And it isn't akin to being at the console.

You dont have to rig the apps you "know nothing"....many who have played with OS and apps know you could manipulate priority, having specific apps in foreground or background effects their priority, and overall how you start an app in certain orders will give precedent over others.....Use your fvcking brain....

I'm tired of you (and the other AMD zealots) using Windows Scheduler as the guinea pig and punching bag for everything. Every time the X2 falters, it is Windows Scheduler that is to blame. Bullshvt. As I mentioned earlier, it doesn't matter. In Tom's test, the 2 CPUs would TIE or be VIRTUALLY IDENTICAL if the X2 were devoting 25% resources to the 4th thread, as the EE is. It's lead in the other 3 would drop exponentially. So give it up with the "rigging" bullshvt, because no one (except your fellow zealots) is buying it. And if you REALLY want a "fair" test, let us bring these rigs up under Linux. I'm 100% for it. Then what will the scapegoat for you zealots be?

You could easily configure the apps so winrar sucked instead of divx...or even lame encoding Cds...lettnig the encoding rock towards Intel I bet was a desired result of Toms....

ROFLMAO. You really are an idiot, Duvie. Setting a thread priority or launching a thread in a "different order" will have ZERO effect on the OVERALL picture. You just don't know what you're talking about. And blaming Windows Scheduler is PATHETIC. Let me put it this way. Let us say the X2 ended up with 50% lead (overall) in WinRAR and LAME. And then let us say (hypothetically) the EE ended up with a 50% lead (overall) in Far Cry and DiVX encoding. It WOULD BE A TIE. Do you get the picture here? It MAKES NO FRIGGING DIFFERENCE HOW MANY THREADS OR WHAT PRIORITY IS ATTACHED TO THEM. Period.

Also I would never doubt that the EE would not do beter with 4 apps cause I know that EE and the hT can help it...It did in some AT test but also hurt it severely in others...Funny how this one favored it when it could have gone the other way....You want to bet that they tested this out prior to setting up the review??? Look at ATs review if you need some help jarring the cobwebs out of the brain...

Anyone with half a brain knows that relying on ONE source for reviews is STUPIDITY. Anand certainly does good reviews and has plenty of credentials -- but he is hardly the only source of accurate and thorough reviews. Funny that Anand is so great when AMD looks good, but we are directed elsewhere when AMD is shown in a bad light? Give up your charade, the cat is out of the bag.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
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Pabster, to Duvie: "Funny that Anand is so great when AMD looks good, but we are directed elsewhere when AMD is shown in a bad light?"
Oh, and:
"I'm tired of you (and the other AMD zealots)"...

End of Thread :).
 

Steven the Leech

Golden Member
Oct 16, 1999
1,443
0
71
Originally posted by: Howard
I friggin hate stumbling into threads that lower my IQ. I want my fvcking IQ back!


Nope you have already looked, now that I have read this thread, I am doomed to a life of being a Idiot!!
 

Duvie

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2001
16,215
0
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Thread Scheduling

The scheduling routines of the operating system checks for the highest-priority thread that is in a ready state and runs it without interruption during a quantum. A quantum, also known as a time slice, is the maximum amount of time a thread can run before the system checks for another ready thread of the same priority to run. If a higher-priority thread becomes ready during the quantum, the lower-priority thread is interrupted and the higher-priority thread is run. Otherwise, threads with the same priority are scheduled to run in a round-robin fashion, and the operating system switches among those threads in order, allowing them to run until the quantum expires.

Windows 2000 always runs the highest-priority ready thread. However, there are optimization strategies built into the operating system to address situations in which the default scheduling methods would cause problems. The following sections describe these strategies.
Foreground Process Scheduling

The scheduler runs a foreground process at a higher priority, which means it tends to get more time slices than background processes. In addition, the scheduler ensures that those time slices are longer than the ones allocated to background processes. As a result, the foreground process is much more responsive than other processes because it runs more often, and it runs longer before being preempted. By default, Windows 2000 Professional defines short, variable time slices for applications and gives a foreground application a priority boost. On the other hand, Windows 2000 Server has longer, fixed time slices with no priority boost for foreground applications, allowing background services to run more efficiently. To see foreground process scheduling in action, monitor the processor time for a process and move its window to the bottom of the stack. Note that the time value allocated to that process falls immediately. Then move the process to the top of the stack and note that the processor time value rises immediately. See Figure 29.19 for an illustration.
Automatic Priority Boost

The operating system automatically boosts a thread?s priority until it is high enough for a low-priority thread to complete its operation and release the resource. After raising a thread?s dynamic priority, the scheduler reduces that priority by one level each time the thread completes a time slice (quantum), until the thread drops back to its base priority.


from Microsoft....

This is for papsmear....

I never said it would change overall result I said that it can be made to skew results...it can explain why Divx gets hosed and others do not...so basically as I stated an rearrangement of how apps are set priority wise, started, and foreground or background can determine how it will handle them in the multitasking environment...

I am saying a simple change and Divx could have been going to AMD and maybe a stronger area like winrar could have gone a bit more to INtel instead of a runaway to AMD...perhaps the lame encodingcould have been sacrificed.....The problem is by no accident I am sure, the Divx encoding gets the shaft knowing the intels users would claim this as a victory.....

Again I never said that the results would have been different...I am certainly sure 4 cpu task in many tested configs (unless all AMD strong grounds) would have gone somewhat similar to this is performance.....However again look at reviews and you will see that there could have been many cases where HT in selected apps could have hampered it as well...If Toms would let us see the pcu task manager we can see how efficient the cores are being used....



Facts...The intel has rebooted more times then the AMD and the review is a "stress test".....The much slower (in terms of cpu speed to companies flagship single core) Intel is still hotter running then the AMD chip......The constant spiking of cpu usage, as well as temp fluctuations makes me think (when it was max in the 71c range that throttling could have been happening...NO proof cause he wont run that one as well....
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,986
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Originally posted by: Duvie

...[all useless thread priority bullshvt deleted for brevity]...

I never said it would change overall result I said that it can be made to skew results...it can explain why Divx gets hosed and others do not...so basically as I stated an rearrangement of how apps are set priority wise, started, and foreground or background can determine how it will handle them in the multitasking environment...

And this has what to do with what?

I am saying a simple change and Divx could have been going to AMD and maybe a stronger area like winrar could have gone a bit more to INtel instead of a runaway to AMD...perhaps the lame encodingcould have been sacrificed.....The problem is by no accident I am sure, the Divx encoding gets the shaft knowing the intels users would claim this as a victory.....

Yeah, that makes sense. LOL! Let AMD win 3 of the 4 and give Intel the DiVX benchie. That doesn't make any sense you idiot! Why would he allow AMD to win 75% of the "tests" if it were rigged (as you infer)?

Again I never said that the results would have been different...I am certainly sure 4 cpu task in many tested configs (unless all AMD strong grounds) would have gone somewhat similar to this is performance.....However again look at reviews and you will see that there could have been many cases where HT in selected apps could have hampered it as well...If Toms would let us see the pcu task manager we can see how efficient the cores are being used....

Again, it doesn't matter. Assuming 100% full load on both chips, the priority of the thread or process will have ZERO bearing on the OVERALL OUTCOME. Period.

Facts...The intel has rebooted more times then the AMD and the review is a "stress test".....The much slower (in terms of cpu speed to companies flagship single core) Intel is still hotter running then the AMD chip......The constant spiking of cpu usage, as well as temp fluctuations makes me think (when it was max in the 71c range that throttling could have been happening...NO proof cause he wont run that one as well....

Oh, so now here we go with reboots. You can do better than that, Duvie.

You are such a fanboy that nearly every sentence begins "The much slower..."

Throttling? LOL. Prescott has to reach >80C before it even BEGINS to throttle. I highly, highly doubt it.
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,986
1
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Originally posted by: Cerb
Pabster, to Duvie: "Funny that Anand is so great when AMD looks good, but we are directed elsewhere when AMD is shown in a bad light?"
Oh, and:
"I'm tired of you (and the other AMD zealots)"...

End of Thread :).

Back to your nest, troll. Another dweeb with nothing to add to the conversation but more kerosene.

Quick, back away from the keyboard. Mommy is coming to see what you're up to.
 

Duvie

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2001
16,215
0
71
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: Duvie

...[all useless thread priority bullshvt deleted for brevity]...

I never said it would change overall result I said that it can be made to skew results...it can explain why Divx gets hosed and others do not...so basically as I stated an rearrangement of how apps are set priority wise, started, and foreground or background can determine how it will handle them in the multitasking environment...

And this has what to do with what?

I am saying a simple change and Divx could have been going to AMD and maybe a stronger area like winrar could have gone a bit more to INtel instead of a runaway to AMD...perhaps the lame encodingcould have been sacrificed.....The problem is by no accident I am sure, the Divx encoding gets the shaft knowing the intels users would claim this as a victory.....

Yeah, that makes sense. LOL! Let AMD win 3 of the 4 and give Intel the DiVX benchie. That doesn't make any sense you idiot! Why would he allow AMD to win 75% of the "tests" if it were rigged (as you infer)?

Again I never said that the results would have been different...I am certainly sure 4 cpu task in many tested configs (unless all AMD strong grounds) would have gone somewhat similar to this is performance.....However again look at reviews and you will see that there could have been many cases where HT in selected apps could have hampered it as well...If Toms would let us see the pcu task manager we can see how efficient the cores are being used....

Again, it doesn't matter. Assuming 100% full load on both chips, the priority of the thread or process will have ZERO bearing on the OVERALL OUTCOME. Period.

Facts...The intel has rebooted more times then the AMD and the review is a "stress test".....The much slower (in terms of cpu speed to companies flagship single core) Intel is still hotter running then the AMD chip......The constant spiking of cpu usage, as well as temp fluctuations makes me think (when it was max in the 71c range that throttling could have been happening...NO proof cause he wont run that one as well....

Oh, so now here we go with reboots. You can do better than that, Duvie.

You are such a fanboy that nearly every sentence begins "The much slower..."

Throttling? LOL. Prescott has to reach >80C before it even BEGINS to throttle. I highly, highly doubt it.



BS on the last part as many have seen it thorttle as low as 66c...This was reported by Intel users in the cpu form..I have heard of it at 70c as well...That could come down to as reported by the mobo ofcourse so you will have inaccuracies there...

Papsmear there is no point talking to you cause you just are not on the same level...sorry....You cant read, you take everything out of context, comprehension is a stretch for you, and you just painfully are so Intel fanboish you wont see past reality....

I am not a fanboy and most (even intel users) know this as I was intel for 3 years up until NOv 04....I own Centrino laptop...So go to heII with you zealot and fanboy claims....
 

mechBgon

Super Moderator<br>Elite Member
Oct 31, 1999
30,699
1
0
You are such a fanboy that nearly every sentence begins "The much slower..."
That is an amusing thing to say to Duvie, of all people. Check out his methodical real-world studies of the benefits of Hyperthreading in this thread. I'm pretty sure that if an AMD processor is in his rig, it earned its place.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: Cerb
Pabster, to Duvie: "Funny that Anand is so great when AMD looks good, but we are directed elsewhere when AMD is shown in a bad light?"
Oh, and:
"I'm tired of you (and the other AMD zealots)"...

End of Thread :).

Back to your nest, troll. Another dweeb with nothing to add to the conversation but more kerosene.

Quick, back away from the keyboard. Mommy is coming to see what you're up to.
You've accumulated more posts here than I have. Troll? You're the one calling people AMD zealots, even when they have histories of threads that clearly show otherwise, of which Duvie is one member, who used to consistently emphasize HT as being the best thing since sliced bread, until the Prescott started heating up like it did.

You also call BS on scheduling, when it has been shown very well, both for Windows and other OSes, that proper scheduling, which includes setting of priorities, has a major impact on the performance of multiple tasks.
 

Googer

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
12,576
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  • Originally posted by: Duvie
    Originally posted by: Pabster
    Originally posted by: Googer
    The unfareness that the Intel machine has is that the software sees it as 4 CPU's and not two. This would be a better comparison if we had Dual Core opterons on a Dual Socket motherboard, or simply turn off hyperthreading so that THE SOFTWARE ONLY RECOGNIZES 2 CPU'S ON BOTH MACHINES.

    Good lord, it is seen as 4 CPUs because of HyperThreading WHICH THE EE 840 SUPPORTS AND THE X2 DOES NOT. So shall we disable SSE2 and SSE3 too? How many people who spend $1000 for a top-end CPU are going to DISABLE one of its most prominent features?

    This is not a test of equals, Tomshardware has messed up and they should start over.

    Yeah, let's run the test 100000 times until that X2 finally wins. :p

    Personaly I don't care who wins, just as long as the race was won fair and sqare.
    Because I would buy either AMD or Intel based on these results if they were accurate but they aren't, because Intel Machine has an unfair advantage in the windows operating enviroment

    Fine, let us benchmark under Linux then. I'm all for it.



    Man shut the heck up....

    < 'Tard Hardware Guide has certainly messed up their test, though. The reboot discrepancy, the mysterious accumulation of encoding time on a P4 that is at 0% CPU usage... uh, NO. If AnandTech did the same test, and stuff began crashing and burning, I think AnandTech would pull the test and explain what happened, rather than continuing to use it as a publicity stunt/traffic generator (*cough*). >

    as said by mechbgon and others who have been watching this more thoroughly then you "papsmear"...

    If you knew anything you would have also known they screwed up the last stress test as well....I wont go into that story cause I know they are running your beloved preshot....



    You dont have to rig the apps you "know nothing"....many who have played with OS and apps know you could manipulate priority, having specific apps in foreground or background effects their priority, and overall how you start an app in certain orders will give precedent over others.....Use your fvcking brain....

    You could easily configure the apps so winrar sucked instead of divx...or even lame encoding Cds...lettnig the encoding rock towards Intel I bet was a desired result of Toms....


    Also I would never doubt that the EE would not do beter with 4 apps cause I know that EE and the hT can help it...It did in some AT test but also hurt it severely in others...Funny how this one favored it when it could have gone the other way....You want to bet that they tested this out prior to setting up the review??? Look at ATs review if you need some help jarring the cobwebs out of the brain...



Good lord, it is seen as 4 CPUs because of HyperThreading
[*]I am aware of that and I am not that dumb ya' know. Hyperthreading is hardly a promanent feature.

Yeah, let's run the test 100000 times until that X2 finally wins. :p

[*] Didn't you read what I wrote? I stated that I have no real interest in the winner, if X2 loses then I will buy Intel. But only if Intel wins fairly using two Real Cores not some kind of Phantom Processing. By the way In my book AMD is winning this one, they are taking home 3 out of 4 of the benchmarks.





Fine, let us benchmark under Linux then. I'm all for it.


because Intel Machine has an unfair advantage in the windows operating enviroment

What good is that going to do? Linux will see it the same as Windows, with Four cores when there are only TWO present.

You dont have to rig the apps you "know nothing"....many who have played with OS and apps know you could manipulate priority, having specific apps in foreground or background effects their priority, and overall how you start an app in certain orders will give precedent over others.....Use your fvcking brain....
Calm down troll....... I am well aware that prority can be manipualted and the forground window gets top processing priority over all other applications, I am smarter than you might believe me to be.

 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
Originally posted by: Pabster

Yeah, that makes sense. LOL! Let AMD win 3 of the 4 and give Intel the DiVX benchie. That doesn't make any sense you idiot! Why would he allow AMD to win 75% of the "tests" if it were rigged (as you infer)?
Why test exactly 4 tasks instead of 3, 5, 6? Why not add in 3dsmax 3D rendering, and/or linux kernel compiles, and/or ....

a) The number was picked at random, for no particular reason, and the results are either correct or false

b) The results are accurate, X2 can't handle more than 3 CPU-heavy tasks well, and the number was picked to give trolls like porkster ammunition for "X2 is lousy at multitasking" spews. If so, it's a lousy test design since the AMD will hammer the P4 on 3 tasks, the P4 will race ahead on the fourth, and we gain much less information than we would with a comparison of both machines running just 3 tasks.

c) The results are completely messed up, and in a properly-run and -charted test X2 would show decent scores on the divx task. In this scenario, 4 tasks were run on both CPUs before the public test and both got decent results, but the public test suffered software, hardware and/or reporting SNAFUs on both machines.

(c) seems most plausible.
 

Googer

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
12,576
7
81
Originally posted by: Duvie
So googer you are calling me a troll???

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, then it must be a duck; because you sure are acting like one.
 

n7

Elite Member
Jan 4, 2004
21,281
4
81
The sad thing about this thread is how the OP posted this to incite a flame war...& he got one...
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
3,003
126
We all know AMD CPU's are poor at floating point operations
This is the some of the biggest BS I've seen in a long time. The A64 currently has the most powerful FPU available in a desktop processor.
 

Pariah

Elite Member
Apr 16, 2000
7,357
20
81
Why test exactly 4 tasks instead of 3, 5, 6? Why not add in 3dsmax 3D rendering, and/or linux kernel compiles, and/or ....
a) The number was picked at random, for no particular reason, and the results are either correct or false

It's not random at all, but apparently you're too busy trolling along to figure it out yourself. The P4 is seen as FOUR CPU's to windows. So in order to make sure the CPU is stressed as much as possible, how many applications do you need to run? A 5 year old can get this one. Four.

and the number was picked to give trolls like porkster ammunition for "X2 is lousy at multitasking" spews. If so, it's a lousy test design since the AMD will hammer the P4 on 3 tasks, the P4 will race ahead on the fourth, and we gain much less information than we would with a comparison of both machines running just 3 tasks.

No it wasn't, the problem is you're too dumb to see what this article is testing. The benchmarks are completely irrelevant to the point of the article.

The only reason the apps were chosen is because they are commonly used applications. The applications serve no purpose at all except to generate a 100% CPU load on each system. There is no reason to pick over 4 applications since neither CPU can technically run that many simultaneously. Once a 100% load is generated on each system, the goal has been achieved to test its stability. Whether the system is running 4 Lame encodings or 50 won't make any difference in the results, since a CPU bound 100% load can neither be hard or easier than CPU bound 100% load generated under different applications.

If you're going to waste your time trolling in a thread, at least troll about what the article is actually testing, instead of why your favorite CPU isn't performing the way you want it to, when that isn't even the point of test.
 
S

SlitheryDee

What if the test were run again using only 3 CPU intensive tasks?

Wouldn't that, in theory, allow the intel processor to allocate the extra 25% of processing power to the remaining tasks?

Seems like this would even the scores just as surely as disabling HT.

I propose that THG, anandtech, or some other popular hardware site should run a similar test with 3 CPU intensive programs and include divx encoding among them.

Yes leave on HT, just reduce the number of CPU intensive tasks and make sure to include the one that AMD seems to be weakest in.
 

imported_BikeDude

Senior member
May 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: Pariah
The whole point of this article has zero to do with performance, none, zip, nada and practically all of you seem to have missed this point. It's a stress test to see how stable the platforms are under the worst conditions they will encounter. For those of you who didn't bother to read the article and just skip to the irrelevant benchmarks pages, here it is:

But even so... :)

A problem with certain drivers is that they don't always run well with multiple CPUs. They aren't always 100% threadsafe, albeit today's drivers are probably much better tested than those of, say, five years ago (e.g. Creative refused to support SMP for years). Neither CPU will hopefully crash "just because". Chances are good it would be as a result of a driver issue.

So, is this really a CPU stress test, or are they merely stress testing the current version of whatever driver they happen to be using at the moment? (the latter would be random IMO -- chances are at the end of this, someone will mutter "oops" and the next driver revision will be a tad more reliable)
 

Pariah

Elite Member
Apr 16, 2000
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It's a platform stability test. CPU's running under their designed environment are very rarely the cause of system instability. It's the stability of the entire platform that anyone should care about. Drivers, software, and hardware all play a role in system stability. Since the drivers and software are the same between the 2 systems, then that leaves the hardware as the deciding factor.

If anything this test is slanted in favor of AMD. In an attempt top make the hardware as comparable as possible, THG decided to go with Gigabyte motherboards. Nothing against Gigabyte who makes a quality product, but if my number one priority was stability, I would go with an Intel motherboard. In an ideal scenario the AMD CPU would be tested on an AMD motherboard while the Intel would be tested on an Intel board. Since AMD doesn't make boards, that's clearly not an option, so THG decided to go with the same 3rd party for both CPU's.
 

imported_BikeDude

Senior member
May 12, 2004
357
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Originally posted by: SlitheryDee
What if the test were run again using only 3 CPU intensive tasks?

The number of tasks doesn't really matter. If this was a benchmark (it has been pointed out that it isn't), a game would make a hopeless yardstick. You'd have to plot its fps all along to make sure it wasn't pre-empted along the way (or assume that it always had access to the CPU).

But then what? My take is that you run a number of CPU intensive threads and see which CPU gets the most work done; If a thread is never scheduled, that is fine, the total is what counts. Unfortunately this approach excludes mixed-benchmarks. I.e. you can't mix two different tests (like WinRAR and DivX encoding) because you'll end up with two different units (files compressed versus frames encoded), how do you sum up the total? You surely have to pick one.