"AMD's role in Stealth Viral Marketing - Q&A" source ABT link inside

[blastingcap]

Have you actually tried to read that thread? It is an absolute train wreck, how can anyone take that site seriously? They are making the X-Files look like the indisputable truth.

I skimmed it enough to know that there may be some truth to his allegations, but not enough hard data to prosecute, so to speak.

But at the same time, as I have previously stated, it doesn't even matter that much because whether it's a shill or fanboi, as long as they are not disruptive, they are free to speak their minds. And if they keep spewing nonsense, people will ignore them. If they are disruptive, ban them. In other words, in a way, as a purely practical (rather than ethical) matter, it doesn't matter if there are shills here or not, because I can definitely see situations in which a well-behaved shill is preferable to a badly-behaved fanboi.

Also, I think apoppin needs to have more smiley diversity. That hat he keeps raising is going to fall apart if he keeps abusing it like that.

Speaking of which, hats off to apoppin for speaking his mind and trying to back it up. It takes balls to do that. The easy way out would be to toady up to all the hardware companies, asking for handouts. On the other hand, he needs to be careful to avoid burning bridges with AMD.

 

[AnandThenMan]

I can't see apoppin as credible after reading much of what he is saying there. He has a serious axe to grind, and even if he does believe everything he is saying, the way he is going about it is stupid. Who is going to want to work with him, send him hardware, invite him to events etc. He is being extremely unprofessional, no one wants that type of person around.

BTW, this is the kind of garbage that is being posted over there.

It will only stop when AMD ceases to exist, which can't happen soon enough. They were useful early on for people accustomed to Commodore and Atari level pricing who could not afford or would not pay intel level pricing (even on celerons), but they have no reason to exist anymore, time for them to fade into the history books.

apoppin went on to disagree with this, but even seeing this type of mentality there is really pathetic, and to me shows the type of breeding ground that forum is.

 

[railven]

Speaking of which, hats off to apoppin for speaking his mind and trying to back it up. It takes balls to do that. The easy way out would be to toady up to all the hardware companies, asking for handouts. On the other hand, he needs to be careful to avoid burning bridges with AMD.

Kidding me? He's basically back peddling now. First 5 pages were gun-ho let's expose the AMD VM machine. It includes post directly from here. At about page 7 his tone changed from "ATF is a shill filled landfill" to a "forget about ATF, this is all about ABT."

He opened his mouth and now I'm waiting for him to deliver. I'm just going to assume all he has is speculation with some valid points but nothing he can make solid conclusions from. All his evidence is in the past and parts of it happened on ABT, but some how it's ATF that is Shill-Central?

This place reacts quickly to FUD. He's acting like someone posts an AMD graph and everyone smiles and wanks off to it.

I wonder who got to him that he's turning tail. I guess I'll never get to read that article with the beans spilled. Basically another HD 7970 Preview - collect rumors from the internet, package it, and pass it off as original.

Is there even a writing staff left there or is he the captain, the crew, and the ship? Makes one wonder what happened to the others. I'd wish I could pick BFG's brain for more inside knowledge.

 

[blastingcap]

I can't see apoppin as credible after reading much of what he is saying there. He has a serious axe to grind, and even if he does believe everything he is saying, the way he is going about it is stupid. Who is going to want to work with him, send him hardware, invite him to events etc. He is being extremely unprofessional, no one wants that type of person around.

BTW, this is the kind of garbage that is being posted over there.

apoppin went on to disagree with this, but even seeing this type of mentality there is really pathetic, and to me shows the type of breeding ground that forum is.

Yes I agree it's unprofessional and high-strung, judging by his terse responses to me on this forum where he literally called me a liar (talk about thin skinned...) for pointing out his self-promotion and post count offsetting his statement that he rarely comes by. That said, I would not mind if he chilled out a bit more.

If he has actual dirt, he needs to go to AMD about it; and if he doesn't and is just posting smack against AMD publicly like he has been... I dunno, I would have handled it differently if I were him. I think he'll burn bridges if he keeps this up.

If AMD ceased to exist, be prepared to pay a lot more for stuff like consoles, graphics cards, and CPUs. Competition is good for consumers. It's already bad enough that we have essentially 2 viable graphics options for gamers; having just one? Ugh.

To be fair, though, there are some juvenile posts here sometimes, too. Mostly this forum is just people asking legit questions about monitors and cards and drivers and bugfixes and stuff, though. This ain't semiaccurate forums.

 

[blastingcap]

Kidding me? He's basically back peddling now. First 5 pages were gun-ho let's expose the AMD VM machine. It includes post directly from here. At about page 7 his tone changed from "ATF is a shill filled landfill" to a "forget about ATF, this is all about ABT."

He opened his mouth and now I'm waiting for him to deliver. I'm just going to assume all he has is speculation with some valid points but nothing he can make solid conclusions from. All his evidence is in the past and parts of it happened on ABT, but some how it's ATF that is Shill-Central?

This place reacts quickly to FUD. He's acting like someone posts an AMD graph and everyone smiles and wanks off to it.

I wonder who got to him that he's turning tail. I guess I'll never get to read that article with the beans spilled. Basically another HD 7970 Preview - collect rumors from the internet, package it, and pass it off as original.

Is there even a writing staff left there or is he the captain, the crew, and the ship? Makes one wonder what happened to the others. I'd wish I could pick BFG's brain for more inside knowledge.

I could have missed something, as I only skimmed pieces of that thread. From what I gathered, though, he has some circumstantial evidence of past AMD marketers making inappropriate proposals and figures that such a program still exists and dominates ATF. Given AMD's zanier ads (I will try to find some examples... I wonder what kind of crack AMD's marketing department smokes, sometimes), I see that possibility as greater than zero, but he needs to be careful to not overstate his case, and frankly this should be aired publicly like this; he needs to go to AMD first directly.

So, sure he's handling this poorly, but you know what, I'd rather have a few loose cannons speaking their mind than everyone cowering befire their hardware-supplying overlords. I don't think you can just say that he's mad because he got cut out of the HD 7970 launch card allocation among reviewers; I don't think it's that simple.

Once again, though, I only skimmed through his thread, so I could've misread or missed something. I also didn't even bother reading his posts attacking ATF or its members, just his original allegation and a few other posts.

Edited to add zany AMD youtube ads: Sorry, but my browser crashed TWICE in the middle of my posting this edit... damned Flash. Ugh.

http://youtu.be/2QkyfGJgcwQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQI8lhHFQ9Q

I can't find it but ATI had a mock-umentary interview at ATI HQ a couple of years ago.

 

[AnandThenMan]

This place reacts quickly to FUD. He's acting like someone posts an AMD graph and everyone smiles and wanks off to it.

If anything, this place is very hard on AMD. Especially on the CPU side, Bulldozer was ripped to shreds, unfairly IMO. I've built a few 'Dozer systems and I liked them, no they are not the performance champs but they run sweet. I can't say I would recommend them over an Intel system, but the way the CPU was treated here you'd think it was slower than an abacus.

 

[Dark Shroud]

If I could I would sign up to be an AMD focus member since I'm poor.

That being said this place is pretty hard on AMD. It's just that there are enough of us the are even minded even if we have a preference that it doesn't get too bad in the video card section. And a lot of us actually take the time to look up data and post links.

 

[railven]

I could have missed something, as I only skimmed pieces of that thread. From what I gathered, though, he has some circumstantial evidence of past AMD marketers making inappropriate proposals and figures that such a program still exists and dominates ATF. Given AMD's zanier ads (I will try to find some examples... I wonder what kind of crack AMD's marketing department smokes, sometimes), I see that possibility as greater than zero, but he needs to be careful to not overstate his case, and frankly this should be aired publicly like this; he needs to go to AMD first directly.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not at all claiming there is no marketers posting here. I'm more than confident there is (sometimes someone's desire to persuade is questionable.)

That doesn't mean I'll start accussing pro-AMD posters of being compensated by AMD, and I wouldn't twist IDC's post into a "see, ATF has viral marketers, administrators know it and condone it." IDC does a great job drawing a parallel with nVidia Focus Group Members. And I'm sure the "a-ha" is that they are disclosed, sure. I'm sure they all are

He did go to AMD, and AMD basically said something along the lines of "we don't pay for it, if it happens it isn't through us" which he took as "see, they don't stop it!"

So, sure he's handling this poorly, but you know what, I'd rather have a few loose cannons speaking their mind than everyone cowering and accepting the party line as dictated by their hardware-supplying overlords. I don't think you can just say that he's mad because he got cut out of the HD 7970 launch card allocation among reviewers; I don't think it's that simple.

Timing is key. All of his evidence dates back to 2006 through 2009. Suddenly he's bringing this to light? I'd spin a theory that him getting cut off was the straw that broke the camel's back and now he's trying to get back at them. He's openly talked to an AMD viral marketer, but it isn't until now that he's coming clean on that? Coincidence? There are too many if you ask me.

Once again, though, I only skimmed through his thread, so I could've misread or missed something. I also didn't even bother reading his posts attacking ATF or its members, just his original allegation and a few other posts.

Edited to add zany AMD youtube ads:

Marketing is crazy at points, for example that Cadbury video. Have you seen any of the Sony Lifestyle commercials?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpbH5L2HkMQ

Marketing doesn't have to make sense. At least sometimes it never does to me haha.

If anything, this place is very hard on AMD. Especially on the CPU side, Bulldozer was ripped to shreds, unfairly IMO. I've built a few 'Dozer systems and I liked them, no they are not the performance champs but they run sweet. I can't say I would recommend them over an Intel system, but the way the CPU was treated here you'd think it was slower than an abacus.

That's exactly what I mean. To claim this place is an AMD shill-a-palooza is illogical after I read through countless Bulldozer sucks threads. JF-AMD got pretty much kicked out by the community. If that is AMD viral marketing (he disclosed his affiliation) then they're doing it wrong haha.

If all these new members posting pro-team stuff are shills, I can link you to countless ones for different teams. Are they shills? I remember when the green parrot started posting here. Does that make him a shill?

 

[sandorski]

This place reacts quickly to FUD. He's acting like someone posts an AMD graph and everyone smiles and wanks off to it.

.

You implying I'm doing it wrong??

:hmm:

 

[railven]

This is all I see:

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/blog/174

EDIT: Except, AMD doesn't seem eager to patch things over.

They must think that we are a small entity, forgetting that I am also the editor-in-chief of Clube do Hardware, the largest website about computers in Brazil, with 20 million pageviews and 7.5 million visitors per month – yes, this website is bigger than most North-American reviewing websites (all reviews posted on Hardware Secrets are also posted on Clube do Hardware).

I don't think ABT can claim such things.

 

[blastingcap]

Marketing is crazy at points, for example that Cadbury video. Have you seen any of the Sony Lifestyle commercials?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpbH5L2HkMQ

Marketing doesn't have to make sense. At least sometimes it never does to me haha.

Okay you got me, I am currently being sidetracked... I was trying to find that AMD mockumentary and stumbled across XFX's youtube videos (maybe that's why they cost more than competitors despite being more cheaply made, haha). Unlike the XFX/AMD Power Rangers one uploaded by the official AMD youtube account, these other ones seem to be XFX only, not AMD-sponsored.

http://youtu.be/2dWziA_u5OU

That somehow led me to: http://alienbabeltech.com/abt//viewtopic.php?t=21654

I got sick of that and wound up here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaXKGj2DwFo (wow, they actually made an ad out of this old joke)

 

[raasco]

You all lose. You fell into his trap for page hits...

 

[3DVagabond]

Anyone remember when apoppin's 6970 wouldn't work and AMD told him it was an incompatibility with his motherboard? He drug them through the mud then and threatened to do worse. Then he found out it was an incompatibility with his motherboard. Now he doesn't get a 7970 review sample and he's doing it again. I have no idea why AMD gives him cards in the first place. It would be easier to believe that nVidia gives him AMD cards and a review manual to go along with them (Not saying that they do. Just that it would make more sense.).

I'm not going there over this because he doesn't deserve any attention for this. I also don't like the idea of him possibly playing junior Sherlock Holmes with my IP address.

keysplayr hasn't posted his reason(s) for starting this thread. A lot of people are assuming it's because he is in favor of the thread at ABT. Maybe so? It could also be to show everyone here just how askew the thread is. Maybe keysplayr will clear that up?

 

[wahdangun]

btw what really happen to appopin ? why he write an article like that ? its so unprofessional and childish article

 

[Pantalaimon]

btw what really happen to appopin ? why he write an article like that ? its so unprofessional and childish article

Based on his current behavior, I think he believes he's Kyle 2.0.

 

[WelshBloke]

I can't see apoppin as credible after reading much of what he is saying there. He has a serious axe to grind, and even if he does believe everything he is saying, the way he is going about it is stupid. Who is going to want to work with him, send him hardware, invite him to events etc. He is being extremely unprofessional, no one wants that type of person around.

BTW, this is the kind of garbage that is being posted over there.

apoppin went on to disagree with this, but even seeing this type of mentality there is really pathetic, and to me shows the type of breeding ground that forum is.

Without checking, that had to be Greg right?

He's hysterical, its a shame that the only place he's aloud to post is ABT.

Actually there are a few people there who have been banned from everywhere else. :hmm:

 

[bononos]

....
But the key distinction the intent. The Nvidia Focus Group does not compensate its members with free hardware for their involvement in tech forums, so far as I am aware the focus group members are compensated with free hardware so they can review it and provide their feedback (much like beta testers and so on) to the company that is sourcing that hardware.

It is really of no surprise that someone who is enthusiastic enough to want to test hardware and provide feedback would also be the sort of individual who is enthusiastic enough to spend time on forum boards. One does not cause the other, they are part and parcel to the individual's personality without external influence.

If the NV Focus Group had a charter, even an unwritten one on the sly, that was engineered to manipulate forum communities by way of compensating individuals with hardware with the expectation that that individual would then post in favor of Nvidia because of the free hardware carrot then I would have an issue with it as shilling. But that is simply not what the Nvidia Focus Group is about.
.....

Why is it so difficult to understand that these sort of things are done under an unstated quid pro quo. People who get free stuff are just more likely to be more enthusiatic in their response. Reviewers otoh (esp well known reviewers on well regarded websites) can be expected to be more even handed since they have to actually work at a proper even-handed review. Small time web reviewers and fan boy groups who get free cards simply reciprocate by pumping out favourable posts here and there.

Do you expect to actually find a group charter to lie, shill and distort info for the good of Nvidia/AMD? These things are simply understood in the same way Nike makes its contractors to sign voluntary 'codes of conduct' and then turns a blind eye.

 

[BFG10K]

I wonder what the Focus Group’s charter actually is?

And if its’ members started posting negatively or disparagingly about nVidia, will their “gifts” continue?

 

[mak360]

As i pointed out earlier, he hasn't been under NDA. he just got lucky on the 5930. He edited his post and changed the 7 series to 6 series, the guy is just out right dishonest, i think we know that anyway

 

[AnandThenMan]

Without checking, that had to be Greg right?

Username is grstanford, that the guy?

 

[brandonb]

It's pretty obvious by posting history who may be realistic vs. those trying to convince us. Those trying to convince are usually discarded and I make up my mind based on realistic posts. That said, I've been with AMD for years since the 4850, and I just bought a 7970 and its on its way. I don't see that changing any time soon, as I just don't see Nvidia products being competitive in the market I'm looking for. I couldn't care less about PhysX, I couldn't care less about compute. I understand why the companies are pushing it as it helps their bottom line, but as a gamer, and an enthusist, I only care about video gaming. And that has swayed my decisions over the last few generations. When I see the "schills" posting and trying to market things which don't affect me about how I need it because it's going to make my experience so much better. I just haven't seen the impact.

That said. Good luck to apoppin and his website he posts at. But I will discard anything he says along with a few others here, as I have always done in the last year or two. Instead I will continue reading about new products and I will decide to buy them based on genuine/realistic posts in this forum.

Thanks Anandtech for being a reputable site, unlike all these clown sites that are just trying to collect "hits" for ad revenue.

 

[chimaxi83]

At the end of the day, all this crap was nothing more than a "link-and-run" (term the staff here created) to try and get people here riled up. Can't even give credit because that "article", which I use as loosely as possible, is nothing more than ramblings.

Guess AMD really pissed in his cheerios.

 

[SirPauly]

Actually I think forums are so divided, with many one-sided views, that an ordinary consumer trying to learn something may just get more confused. So, if I was an IHV, would pay attention to trying to get positive reviews and trying to listen to what the reviewers may offer for constructive criticism or from developers. I suppose, at times, input from forums help but considering the divided noise may make it difficult.

Personally post because I like to share views with other gamers, enjoy to debate, and entertained by some of the personalities, and my favorite: actually learning a new data point.

Ideally, think forums are a consumer haven but what method could really stop shills? They would just adapt, one may imagine. So, to me, engage the points and the message. What else can one really do?

 

[sandorski]

In a Double Blind Test, Overclockers drinking Coca Cola achieved a 10% better Overclock than those drinking Pepsi Cola.

 

[blackened23]

In a Double Blind Test, Overclockers drinking Coca Cola achieved a 10% better Overclock than those drinking Pepsi Cola.

Coke shill!:awe: