AMD's Phil Rogers jumps ship to Nvidia

[CHADBOGA]

Yea, well then why doesnt intel give us more of them? Stuck on 4 for what, nearly 10 years now?

Clearly we were "given" 4 cores too early and they were little more than a marketing gimmick in the first few years at least.

 

[superstition]

HSA should not have been the priority. AMD should've focused on FPU throughput, hell they shouldn't have gone the BD route in the first place, but getting dual 256-bit FPUs in by 2013 would've made AMD chips a much better proposition for people who game, are into content creation, or even scientific computing.

I remember when AMD had better FPU than Intel and weaker integer and so many people were saying AMD's chips are inferior because of their worse integer performance.

So AMD listened and improved their integer performance and suddenly everyone thinks Cinebench is the de facto benchmark.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Doesnt really matter does it? With the exception of 3 or 4 cherry picked benchmarks the AMD fans love, FX pretty much gets slaughtered no matter what the benchmark.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Clearly we were "given" 4 cores too early and they were little more than a marketing gimmick in the first few years at least.

Well, those quad cores that were supposedly a "gimmick" are now much more capable than dual cores from that era. E6600 was 65nm and now we are on 14nm and still no increase in core count. Intel could certainly afford to "give" us a mainstream hex core, since they dont seem to be able to increase IPC or clockspeed more than a few percent in every generation (or two).

 

[CHADBOGA]

Well, those quad cores that were supposedly a "gimmick" are now much more capable than dual cores from that era. E6600 was 65nm and now we are on 14nm and still no increase in core count. Intel could certainly afford to "give" us a mainstream hex core, since they dont seem to be able to increase IPC or clockspeed more than a few percent in every generation (or two).

Supposedly that is what they are doing with Cannonlake, so you and Intel are only a Tock away from being of the same mind. :biggrin:

 

[Dravic]

"corporate fellow from AMD"

FYI usually means he helped out but wasn't in charge of much besides special projects.

Most 'fellow' positions are place holders until they find an opening or often just a way for high level players to get paid while waiting to figure out what they want to do next.

Still not good news, but losing a fellow isn't all that big of a deal.

 

[squirrel dog]

Real drag Mr. Rodgers leaving . Would you , could you , be my neighbor .

 

[Arachnotronic]

If someone offered you a promotion with much higher pay and a lot more stock options, wouldn't you leave your existing employer? There is always a lot more to the story of an executive leaving the firm that the typical DOOM/bankruptcy any time now.

I am pretty sure if all the Doom experts on AT were so sure of their own gospel, they would all be very wealthy from shorting AMD stock and buying thousands of puts over the last decade. Where are these wealthy financial chair experts driving Ferraris and McLarens who made $ by shorting AMD stock/buying puts over the years? Most of these armchair experts claiming AMD is doomed/going bankrupt don't even own a 5960X with Titan X Tri-SLI that can easily be purchased from a single successful short/annual put strategy, so we all know it's all just talk with nothing to back it up.

Have you ever shorted stocks before?

 

[Arachnotronic]

Well, those quad cores that were supposedly a "gimmick" are now much more capable than dual cores from that era. E6600 was 65nm and now we are on 14nm and still no increase in core count. Intel could certainly afford to "give" us a mainstream hex core, since they dont seem to be able to increase IPC or clockspeed more than a few percent in every generation (or two).

They did. It's called the $390 5820K

Seriously, out of the box the clocks are low but I think that with good cooling a 5820K buyer should be able to get 4.3GHz+ pretty easily out of such a chip.

Frankly, I think that's a really good value given that you should be able to get a solid 4-5 years out of a 5820K system.

That's just $78-$97/year to use a really great processor if you get 4-5 years out of it...not including the fact that you'll probably be able to resell the chip for decent coin down the line.

 

[William Gaatjes]

No, it's not a pipe dream but it's just very costly and technically difficult to implement. Even Samsung with tens of billions of dollars in cash still has not managed to implement HSA in their custom ARM processor that could go into the next gen of Galaxy line-up of smartphones, but it doesn't mean it won't happen at some point.

"According to recently released information, Samsung began to work on its custom general-purpose ARMv8-compatible core in 2011. For about four years now, the company has been hiring microprocessor developers from companies like Advanced Micro Devices. "
http://www.kitguru.net/components/c...sor-core-already-supported-by-software-tools/

We might start to see Samsung implementing HSA gen 1 in M1 starting with Galaxy S7 or it might take another 3-5 years but it's clear that other major players in the world outside of AMD do understand the benefits of HSA in the future. Now unless someone is 80-90 years old on this forum, they might never see the benefits of HSA but for the rest of us, we have decades to see if HSA can actually become reality in smartphones, tablets, laptops, PCs.

Even if AMD never implements HSA successfully, we also have ARM, Samsung, Qualcomm.

It would be fun to see a dramatic increase in processing power for ARM devices. Imagine Android supporting it and have a ready to use API for new features. That would be a possible future, where google supports HSA to enable advanced recognition algorithms on "ordinary" ARM devices without the need for special developed co-processors. ARM is already at the multicore scene and at high frequencies.

I wonder if HSA could benefit servers as well.

 

[frozentundra123456]

They did. It's called the $390 5820K

Seriously, out of the box the clocks are low but I think that with good cooling a 5820K buyer should be able to get 4.3GHz+ pretty easily out of such a chip.

Frankly, I think that's a really good value given that you should be able to get a solid 4-5 years out of a 5820K system.

That's just $78-$97/year to use a really great processor if you get 4-5 years out of it...not including the fact that you'll probably be able to resell the chip for decent coin down the line.

Mainstream on the latest architecture an process node? I dont think so, it is a 2 generation old server reject. Granted, if I were building an expensive system right now it probably would be my choice, but still, it would be nice to have a current generation hex core.

 

[zentan]

A 390$ 5820k is still quite a good option for those needing that number of cores.
It has somewhat lower stock-clocks but can be overclocked if needed and there are decent
x99 motherboards which feature all the new features like usb3.1.

Why does it matter if it's 2 gen old,when the per-clock performance is hardly that behind
and the platform is also quite good enough for most of the latest I/O features.
Also,weren't some people complaining about 5-8% per clock improvement being not much.
So there you go,you have the choices:
the latest arch i7 6700k or the older arch but with more cores with close enough per clock perf i7 5820k. They are not that far apart in pricing. Before 5820k came out the options were lesser than they are now.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Even Samsung with tens of billions of dollars in cash still has not managed to implement HSA in their custom ARM processor that could go into the next gen of Galaxy line-up of smartphones, but it doesn't mean it won't happen at some point.

. . .

We might start to see Samsung implementing HSA gen 1 in M1 starting with Galaxy S7 or it might take another 3-5 years but it's clear that other major players in the world outside of AMD do understand the benefits of HSA in the future.

. . .

Even if AMD never implements HSA successfully, we also have ARM, Samsung, Qualcomm.

At this point, I wonder why Samsung (or anyone else) would bother when OpenCL 2.0 is doing essentially the same things. Obviously the hardware needs to be there, but AMD has already paved the way for SVM with GCN 1.1 and 1.2 iGPUs, and Intel has followed suit with their Gen8/9+ products. An OpenCL 2.0 design target seems more rational than continuing on with HSA, especially if they're still struggling with it. All OpenCL 2.0 really needs is more-accessible tools for client programmers, and maybe better driver support for end-users (if that). Stuff like ArrayFire has paved much of the way for programmers:

http://arrayfire.com/category/opencl/

I'm not sure that full support for all the OpenCL 2.0 features is in there, but if it isn't now, I don't see why it can't be in the near future. They're a lot closer to a useable software ecosystem for developers than anyone is with HSA.

"corporate fellow from AMD"

FYI usually means he helped out but wasn't in charge of much besides special projects.

Most 'fellow' positions are place holders until they find an opening or often just a way for high level players to get paid while waiting to figure out what they want to do next.

Still not good news, but losing a fellow isn't all that big of a deal.

Interesting point. The man had been with AMD for, what, 20+ years?

 

[AtenRa]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9690/hsa-foundation-update-more-hsa-hardware-coming-soon

Jumping to the present, a bit over three years since the HSA Foundation was formed, the HSA Foundation is now preparing for the next generation of HSA products. To that end, the Foundation is presenting an update on the state of HSA implementations at this year’s Linley Processor Conference. With the release of Carrizo putting HSA 1.0 into motion, ARM, Imagination, and MediaTek are now discussing their own HSA hardware release plans in greater detail. This is both to demonstrate their continued support for the standard as well as to offer some further detail in how the HSA ecosystem will work in the future with multiple vendors selling products and potentially IP from multiple vendors all in the same SoC.

Ultimately it is the Foundation’s goal to not just see HSA prosper, but to see it deployed from the bottom to the top, mobile devices right on up to supercomputers. With that said, the bulk of the HSA founders are mobile firms, and it’s entirely likely that outside of AMD’s APUs we’re going to see the mobile market take off first. Though with mobile platforms being the ultimate power-constrained platform – you don’t just need to be efficient to use power wisely, but you have a finite battery capacity to begin with – mobile may very well be the market that stands to gain the most from HSA in the first place.

 

[Sonikku]

The writing is on the wall.

 

[RussianSensation]

Doesnt really matter does it? With the exception of 3 or 4 cherry picked benchmarks the AMD fans love, FX pretty much gets slaughtered no matter what the benchmark.

AMD shouldn't win a single benchmark, period. The FX's architecture traces its roots back to October 2011 and to this date it's on 32nm node. Since that time Intel went from 32nm Sandy -> IVB -> Haswell -> Broadwell -> 14nm Skylake and before Zen launches, they will have Kaby Lake.

Looking at FX isn't determinable to write-off Zen or discuss the merits of Zen gaining market share and making $ for AMD vs. the existing FX series. AMD doesn't need to outright beat an i7 6700K to make $ and gain market share. Right now they are in a position where there is practically no CPU/APU worth buying. Even if they have 3-4 CPUs/APUs that are suddenly worth buying in 2017 and beyond, it's already world's better than the position they have had for the last 4 years.

If you look at Intel's existing product stack, their sub-$180 product line is mostly mediocre. It will not be that difficult to introduce quad-core/6-core processors that will beat i3s. If they improve the IPC by 40%, while halving their power usage, even if Zen is slower in IPC than Kabylake, many people will take 80-90% of the IPC but 2X the cores because right out of the gate an i3 is already outdated out of the gate for modern gaming. Essentially the weakness in Intel's product line-up is that they don't have any great/excellent products below an i5 and up. This is the area that AMD could try to exploit with Zen most effectively assuming they meet the IPC target and lower power usage significantly. Intel of course could easily respond with an unlocked i3, drop prices on an i5, move i7 down to i5's $230-250 price level and move 6-core into the $350 price range. After all they already sell 5820K for $320 at MicroCenter which means even at that price they are making money.

However, without seeing Zen and Arctic Islands, it's way too early to call the demise of AMD.

The writing is on the wall.

AMD gets 1-2 influential people on board like Keller, and we read how 1-2 people cannot change the company. AMD is doomed.
AMD has 1-2 influential people leave the company, and we read how 1-2 people are enough to completely destroy the company. AMD is doomed.

That tells me most people who keep repeating AMD is going bankrupt/doomed any quarter now just hate AMD as a firm or have vested financial interests in AMD failing. No one with any common sense or logic would want for our GPU sector to become a monopoly, which means any sane objective PC gamer would want AMD to get back on track in 2016.

If tomorrow 100 of the smartest people across Google, Intel, MS, Apple, Tesla all joined AMD and worked for free, on AT forums, there would be AMD is doomed threads based on some other factors. Why? Because there is a certain group of members on AT who will only focus on the negative aspects of AMD. Even if tomorrow AMD invented the cure for cancer, there would be threads that AMD is doomed since they would run out of $ before they can pass all the pharmaceutical testing stages to get the cancer drug out to the market. What else is new on AT forums when it comes to anti-AMD propaganda? Just another day.

In the meantime, AMD has 3 semi-custom design wins, the first of which should start earning them $ in 2H of 2016. They will have > 1B of cash on hand at Q1 2016. They have already tapped out various SKUs of Arctic Islands GPUs which are going into production soon. With HBM and 16nm node, AMD stands to gain market share in both the desktop and mobile dGPU market segments as NV will no longer be completely uncontested like was the case when AMD basically threw in the towel by Spring 2012 on the entire mobile dGPU sector.

Then by Q1 2017, there will be Zen products coming out which which will be better than Bulldozer/Vishera which means AMD will gain market some share against Intel.

In other words, it's way too premature to even discuss "the writing is on the wall" until at least Q1-2 2017 when we can look at the impact of Zen/Arctic Islands top-to-bottom stack, etc.

In the meantime, AMD stock has increased 29% in the last month, which suggests that the investor outlook is more positive on the firm than it was during July 2015 when the stock fell to as low as 1.62.

 

[DrMrLordX]

In the meantime, AMD stock has increased 29% in the last month, which suggests that the investor outlook is more positive on the firm than it was during July 2015 when the stock fell to as low as 1.62.

You gotta admit, the "Apple is interesting in Zen APUs" rumour is probably responsible for at least a little bit of that bump. Otherwise, though, I think most of your points are valid. The usual doom & gloom crew is a broken record.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Yea, 29% increase from a few weeks flirting with all time lows. Compared to historical prices, it's still pretty much in the crapper.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Yea, 29% increase from a few weeks flirting with all time lows. Compared to historical prices, it's still pretty much in the crapper.

Everything is going up due to cheap money. China cut the rates too again.

But be careful, it may turn again early next year or so. Then its hangover time again.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Everything is going up due to cheap money. China cut the rates too again.

But be careful, it may turn again early next year or so. Then its hangover time again.

Yea, everything but my income.

 

[frozentundra123456]

AMD shouldn't win a single benchmark, period. The FX's architecture traces its roots back to October 2011 and to this date it's on 32nm node. Since that time Intel went from 32nm Sandy -> IVB -> Haswell -> Broadwell -> 14nm Skylake and before Zen launches, they will have Kaby Lake.

Looking at FX isn't determinable to write-off Zen or discuss the merits of Zen gaining market share and making $ for AMD vs. the existing FX series. AMD doesn't need to outright beat an i7 6700K to make $ and gain market share. Right now they are in a position where there is practically no CPU/APU worth buying. Even if they have 3-4 CPUs/APUs that are suddenly worth buying in 2017 and beyond, it's already world's better than the position they have had for the last 4 years.

If you look at Intel's existing product stack, their sub-$180 product line is mostly mediocre. It will not be that difficult to introduce quad-core/6-core processors that will beat i3s. If they improve the IPC by 40%, while halving their power usage, even if Zen is slower in IPC than Kabylake, many people will take 80-90% of the IPC but 2X the cores because right out of the gate an i3 is already outdated out of the gate for modern gaming. Essentially the weakness in Intel's product line-up is that they don't have any great/excellent products below an i5 and up. This is the area that AMD could try to exploit with Zen most effectively assuming they meet the IPC target and lower power usage significantly. Intel of course could easily respond with an unlocked i3, drop prices on an i5, move i7 down to i5's $230-250 price level and move 6-core into the $350 price range. After all they already sell 5820K for $320 at MicroCenter which means even at that price they are making money.

However, without seeing Zen and Arctic Islands, it's way too early to call the demise of AMD.



AMD gets 1-2 influential people on board like Keller, and we read how 1-2 people cannot change the company. AMD is doomed.
AMD has 1-2 influential people leave the company, and we read how 1-2 people are enough to completely destroy the company. AMD is doomed.

That tells me most people who keep repeating AMD is going bankrupt/doomed any quarter now just hate AMD as a firm or have vested financial interests in AMD failing. No one with any common sense or logic would want for our GPU sector to become a monopoly, which means any sane objective PC gamer would want AMD to get back on track in 2016.

If tomorrow 100 of the smartest people across Google, Intel, MS, Apple, Tesla all joined AMD and worked for free, on AT forums, there would be AMD is doomed threads based on some other factors. Why? Because there is a certain group of members on AT who will only focus on the negative aspects of AMD. Even if tomorrow AMD invented the cure for cancer, there would be threads that AMD is doomed since they would run out of $ before they can pass all the pharmaceutical testing stages to get the cancer drug out to the market. What else is new on AT forums when it comes to anti-AMD propaganda? Just another day.

In the meantime, AMD has 3 semi-custom design wins, the first of which should start earning them $ in 2H of 2016. They will have > 1B of cash on hand at Q1 2016. They have already tapped out various SKUs of Arctic Islands GPUs which are going into production soon. With HBM and 16nm node, AMD stands to gain market share in both the desktop and mobile dGPU market segments as NV will no longer be completely uncontested like was the case when AMD basically threw in the towel by Spring 2012 on the entire mobile dGPU sector.

Then by Q1 2017, there will be Zen products coming out which which will be better than Bulldozer/Vishera which means AMD will gain market some share against Intel.

In other words, it's way too premature to even discuss "the writing is on the wall" until at least Q1-2 2017 when we can look at the impact of Zen/Arctic Islands top-to-bottom stack, etc.

In the meantime, AMD stock has increased 29% in the last month, which suggests that the investor outlook is more positive on the firm than it was during July 2015 when the stock fell to as low as 1.62.

Lot of assumptions there, but it seems like you are saying I predicted the "demise of AMD", which I did not. But I also dont think the recent uptick necessarily means anything about the outlook for AMD's products either. Basically it is just noise, or market manipulation. We need to see a long term trend.