AMD's new 45nm dual core processors

[ShawnD1]

I'm not sure how credible Xbit is but they claim to have done some quick tests on AMD's newest processors.
http://xbitlabs.com/articles/c...om-athlon-ii-x2_2.html

This is a very good result, showing that dual-core AMD processors on 45nm cores will overclock way better than their triple- and quad-core fellows. The results of our Phenom II X2 550 overclocking experiments confirm this assumption as well. This processor remained stable at 3.98GHz frequency with the core voltage increased by 0.15V.

 

[Hacp]

Why is AMD wasting time on desktop 45nm products? They should be concecntrating on the notebook market. Thats where all the money is..

 

[richierich1212]

Pretty good results. I wonder where they'll be priced.

 

[ShawnD1]

Originally posted by: Hacp
Why is AMD wasting time on desktop 45nm products? They should be concecntrating on the notebook market. Thats where all the money is..

What I'm curious about is why laptop and desktop processors use different sockets; that wasn't true in the days of Socket A. If they had the same socket, the laptop processors and low end desktop processors could be merged together to be one single line of processors.

If I'm not mistaken, these new dual cores are actually half broken processors that are partly disabled. The forum is filled with people unlocking their X3 into an X4, and the Phenom II X2 is just an extension of that. 2 cores are disabled, the 6mb L3 cache remains active. In the crappier X2 model, even the L3 is disabled so all you have is 2 of the original 4 cores and none of the cache. Just underclock it a little bit and you have a perfectly usable laptop processor. I think that's what Intel does anyway. The computer I'm on right now is a 2.4ghz Intel Conroe (dual core) and one of my laptops is a 1.6ghz Intel Conroe (single core). Do you see the pattern? Fewer cores, underclock it a little, use the same basic design, sell it as a laptop processor.

 

[soccerballtux]

The other 2 cores still draw power, unfortunately; just not as much as if they were actually calculating something.

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Originally posted by: Hacp
Why is AMD wasting time on desktop 45nm products? They should be concecntrating on the notebook market. Thats where all the money is..

How so? More desktop/server CPU's are sold than laptops.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle

Originally posted by: Hacp
Why is AMD wasting time on desktop 45nm products? They should be concecntrating on the notebook market. Thats where all the money is..

How so? More desktop/server CPU's are sold than laptops.

Are you sure about that? I just replaced about a dozen EOUL desktops in a medical office, and they all wanted laptops as replacements. They're just as powerful as current desktops, take up a helluva lot less space, use little power and are portable. It's the way it has always been headed anyway. The laptop market is insanely huge. I wonder if there is a site that records the number of desktop, laptop, server sales worldwide.

Here ya go:
Laptops outship desktops for the first time worldwide - 2008

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle

Originally posted by: Hacp
Why is AMD wasting time on desktop 45nm products? They should be concecntrating on the notebook market. Thats where all the money is..

How so? More desktop/server CPU's are sold than laptops.

Maybe the server market is attractive in terms of profitability, but isn't that what the quad cores are for? Why waste output on dual core desktop chips when they should be working towards a 45nm notebook solution.

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle

Originally posted by: Hacp
Why is AMD wasting time on desktop 45nm products? They should be concecntrating on the notebook market. Thats where all the money is..

How so? More desktop/server CPU's are sold than laptops.

The trend is towards laptops, and it's somewhere close to 50/50 desktop/laptop sales these days I think.

I would agree that 45nm would make more sense in the laptop market though, for reduced power.
The problem is that AMD aren't making a new product for desktops, they are cutting down existing product lines.
This isn't a dedicated dual core 45nm processor, as soccerballtux said, it's a cut down quad which means the extra cores still draw a bit of power.

Hopefully AMD will design and manufacture a proper 45nm dual core processor as it would make their platform even more attractive. Currently they have an "OK" processor, a nice chipset and graphics options (from IGP to discrete stuff). If the processor was better then their full system solutions (graphics/chipset/cpu) would be even better.

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle

Originally posted by: Hacp
Why is AMD wasting time on desktop 45nm products? They should be concecntrating on the notebook market. Thats where all the money is..

How so? More desktop/server CPU's are sold than laptops.

Are you sure about that? I just replaced about a dozen EOUL desktops in a medical office, and they all wanted laptops as replacements. They're just as powerful as current desktops, take up a helluva lot less space, use little power and are portable. It's the way it has always been headed anyway. The laptop market is insanely huge. I wonder if there is a site that records the number of desktop, laptop, server sales worldwide.

Here ya go:
Laptops outship desktops for the first time worldwide - 2008

Well, the reasons I figured that desktop CPU's outsold laptops are:

According to Isuppli (December 2008), laptops outsold desktops 38.6m to 38.5.
- this figure probably doesn't include DIYers (like most of us)
- this figure probably doesn't include servers
- desktop CPU's are more likely to be replaced than notebook CPU's, so there's a few more sales there

If I'm wrong, please LMK.

That said, certainly AMD's mobile offerings aren't as compelling as Intel's, so AMD needs to get crackin' there, especially as the mobile market grows.

On a side note, I believe that CPU "reputations" are still generally based on desktop performance.

Side note #2: AMD already trails Intel, they can't afford to fall behind further.

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle

Originally posted by: Hacp
Why is AMD wasting time on desktop 45nm products? They should be concecntrating on the notebook market. Thats where all the money is..

How so? More desktop/server CPU's are sold than laptops.

Are you sure about that? I just replaced about a dozen EOUL desktops in a medical office, and they all wanted laptops as replacements. They're just as powerful as current desktops, take up a helluva lot less space, use little power and are portable. It's the way it has always been headed anyway. The laptop market is insanely huge. I wonder if there is a site that records the number of desktop, laptop, server sales worldwide.

Here ya go:
Laptops outship desktops for the first time worldwide - 2008

Well, the reasons I figured that desktop CPU's outsold laptops are:

According to Isuppli (December 2008), laptops outsold desktops 38.6m to 38.5.
- this figure probably doesn't include DIYers (like most of us)
- this figure probably doesn't include servers
- desktop CPU's are more likely to be replaced than notebook CPU's, so there's a few more sales there

If I'm wrong, please LMK.

That said, certainly AMD's mobile offerings aren't as compelling as Intel's, so AMD needs to get crackin' there, especially as the mobile market grows.

On a side note, I believe that CPU "reputations" are still generally based on desktop performance.

I don't think the average home buyer cares about cpu performance that much in their desktop machines. 10% isn't going to bite anyone, as long as it is cheaper.

In notebooks on the other hand, people care. They want a cool, quiet, fast, and low power chip for notebooks. They are more careful in selecting the CPU, because anything that is too hot or too power hungry will kill battery life in notebooks. If AMD made really good notebook processors, their rep will skyrocket.

For me personally, I have no problem with AMD chips. I just won't ever buy a notebook with one because it is so power hungry.

 

[classy]

Hmm at 3.8-3.9 with 6mb cache, that will be one fast little chip.

 

[soccerballtux]

Originally posted by: classy
Hmm at 3.8-3.9 with 6mb cache, that will be one fast little chip.

 

[WaitingForNehalem]

AMD has a native dual core called Regor. The cut-down quad is called Callisto.

http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/13789/66/

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Hacp
Why is AMD wasting time on desktop 45nm products? They should be concecntrating on the notebook market. Thats where all the money is..

Notebook and desktop processors are almost the same except for the packaging and binning. The laptop CPU's are in a thinner package and are usually the higher quality dies that use lower power. But it's not like the architecture is completely different.

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Hacp
Why is AMD wasting time on desktop 45nm products? They should be concecntrating on the notebook market. Thats where all the money is..

Notebook and desktop processors are almost the same except for the packaging and binning. The laptop CPU's are in a thinner package and are usually the higher quality dies that use lower power. But it's not like the architecture is completely different.

Exactly. That is why AMD needs to design with notebooks in mind.

 

[lopri]

These chips won't be able to compete against Intel's 45 dualies in any metric, but are very intriguing nonetheless. I didn't know the new Athlon X2's would be Deneb with L3 stripped completely. So AMD is making 5 different CPUs out of the same Deneb die?

Athlon II X2
Phenom II X2
Phenom II X3
Phenom II X4 w/ 4MB L3
Phenom II X4 w/ 6MB L3

Very weird line-up's, to say the least. Though personally I am very interested in those Athlons. (Phenom II without L3)

 

[soonerproud]

Originally posted by: lopri
These chips won't be able to compete against Intel's 45 dualies in any metric, but are very intriguing nonetheless. I didn't know the new Athlon X2's would be Deneb with L3 stripped completely. So AMD is making 5 different CPUs out of the same Deneb die?

Athlon II X2
Phenom II X2
Phenom II X3
Phenom II X4 w/ 4MB L3
Phenom II X4 w/ 6MB L3

Very weird line-up's, to say the least. Though personally I am very interested in those Athlons. (Phenom II without L3)

Even with the large die sizes it may of been cheaper from a engineering stand point to develop these chips this way and they get to sell all of those deneb cores that had bad cores or really screwy L3 caches. I bet the yields are not as good as AMD hoped for in the first place.

 

[richierich1212]

Originally posted by: lopri
These chips won't be able to compete against Intel's 45 dualies in any metric, but are very intriguing nonetheless. I didn't know the new Athlon X2's would be Deneb with L3 stripped completely. So AMD is making 5 different CPUs out of the same Deneb die?

Athlon II X2
Phenom II X2
Phenom II X3
Phenom II X4 w/ 4MB L3
Phenom II X4 w/ 6MB L3

Very weird line-up's, to say the least. Though personally I am very interested in those Athlons. (Phenom II without L3)

The 550 coming out is Black Edition with 6mb L3 intact, since it is a quad with two cores disabled.

image

 

[richierich1212]

Oh yeah and the regor cpu (250) has 2x 1mb of L2 cache

 

[imported_SLIM]

Regor is not a Deneb reject. It has it's own mask and as noted in several posts above is quite different... no L3, no disabled cores, 2x the L2 cache. Xbit admits their mistake in thinking that Regor (athlon 250) is a deneb reject in the comments and says they will correct themselves in their launch day article.

 

[bgeh]

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle

Originally posted by: Hacp
Why is AMD wasting time on desktop 45nm products? They should be concecntrating on the notebook market. Thats where all the money is..

How so? More desktop/server CPU's are sold than laptops.

Are you sure about that? I just replaced about a dozen EOUL desktops in a medical office, and they all wanted laptops as replacements. They're just as powerful as current desktops, take up a helluva lot less space, use little power and are portable. It's the way it has always been headed anyway. The laptop market is insanely huge. I wonder if there is a site that records the number of desktop, laptop, server sales worldwide.

Here ya go:
Laptops outship desktops for the first time worldwide - 2008

Well, the reasons I figured that desktop CPU's outsold laptops are:

According to Isuppli (December 2008), laptops outsold desktops 38.6m to 38.5.
- this figure probably doesn't include DIYers (like most of us)
- this figure probably doesn't include servers
- desktop CPU's are more likely to be replaced than notebook CPU's, so there's a few more sales there

If I'm wrong, please LMK.

That said, certainly AMD's mobile offerings aren't as compelling as Intel's, so AMD needs to get crackin' there, especially as the mobile market grows.

On a side note, I believe that CPU "reputations" are still generally based on desktop performance.

Side note #2: AMD already trails Intel, they can't afford to fall behind further.

2 extra trends: Notebook sales been catching up to desktop sales over the past few years, and growth in the notebook sector has been generally larger than desktop sales.

Q4 represented the first time notebooks overtook desktops for one and only one reason: netbooks, and I remember seeing netbooks taking about 15-20% of the sales of notebooks, and netbooks tend to be 2nd PCs instead, so desktops/notebooks were probably not replaced (I don't think many of us would swap even a Core Duo laptop (2-3 years old?) for an Atom laptop), but instead a netbook was added on.

That's not exactly brilliant news for Intel though, with the Atom's incredibly low ASP, and it perhaps points out to the increasing commoditization of CPUs in general as performance starts becoming good enough for the majority of the market. But that'll take a few more years to run before any real conclusions can be drawn.

 

[lopri]

Originally posted by: SLIM
Regor is not a Deneb reject. It has it's own mask and as noted in several posts above is quite different... no L3, no disabled cores, 2x the L2 cache. Xbit admits their mistake in thinking that Regor (athlon 250) is a deneb reject in the comments and says they will correct themselves in their launch day article.

I think I know where AMD is getting Regors or Castillos. It hit me that AMD will launch Istanbul soon.. Istanbul = 6 core + ?? L3. AMD is cutting wafers as needed and trying to get the most out of them. So In the end, it's possible that these X2 chips are not 'rejects' but results of different style of harvesting. It does make sense.

 

[LoneNinja]

Those early numbers do look good, and as mentioned by a few others, the new Athlon X2 isn't a Deneb reject.

 

[richierich1212]

Just got my 550 in today and my "reject" unlocks to quad-core and overclocks a bit more than my 920. Not bad for ~$100 (bing cashback)