AMD's Lead With DirectX 11 Is 'insignificant'

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Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,118
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Damn straight! and we better keep it up or you know both companies will start slacking.
I cringe at the thought that anyone of any authority or significance at either company might actually give two shits about what a bunch of us forum rats have to say or think about their respective businesses.
 

nOOky

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2004
2,200
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You might be surprised at what tech. enthusiasts at many different companies browse on their free time.
Look at the number of manufacturer responses on newegg to customer reviews for example. I would think that nvidia and ATI employees might visit some of the same sites that we all do. Microsoft has people that keep track of various sites. Some might even help guide their direction or decisions on new tech. or new ideas.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
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Yes, just going by the rosters of people who pm me here I'd say absolutely every company we talk about has active "representation" here in these forums.

But that's not what I said/meant in my post above.

Big difference between worker-bees perusing a forum versus mid and upper level decision makers taking in forum feedback as an input that modulates their decision tree to any appreciable extent.
 

OS

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
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you would think that with what nvidia did to 3dfx they would be more careful.

it took something like one or two product cycles of being late/missing features to go from top to being killed..
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
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you would think that with what nvidia did to 3dfx they would be more careful.

it took something like one or two product cycles of being late/missing features to go from top to being killed..
3Dfx just took many wrong turns. More than most. And they ended up... well, you know.
 

Fox5

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
5,957
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you would think that with what nvidia did to 3dfx they would be more careful.

it took something like one or two product cycles of being late/missing features to go from top to being killed..
Let's see, 3dfx's missteps:

1. Not producing parts viable parts for the OEM market. 3dfx dominated the retail add-in market for basically their entire existence. They had almost 0 share of the far more lucrative/larger oem market, that ati, intel, and nvidia swamped with very low end parts. Heck, I don't think you could even buy a computer with a high-endish card until the geforce 2 era.

2. Initially castrating parts to keep themselves in the high end of the market (voodoo banshee was an underperformer not to nip at the heels of the high end voodoo 2), then pursuing the low-end market overly aggressively. The voodoo 3 cards were fantastic performers for their price. Unfortunately, they priced them so low that when dram prices rose, they ended up selling the cards at a loss, and generally never made much profit on them.

3. They invested a ton of R&D into blackbelt and rampage that they never got a return on. I'm pretty sure rampage got scrapped and restarted a few times. (apparently the company as a whole was rather wasteful in spending too)

4. The voodoo5 chips came out in 2000 using 1998 process technology, and it took two gigantic chips to compete against one from nvidia or ati. Per chip, they were basically voodoo3's with 32bit color and larger texture sizes, aka what the voodoo3 would have been if they put it at the same price point as the tnt2 instead of the banshee.
 

OS

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
15,581
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lol nice

i am not saying nvidia is turning into 3dfx now, only that leads and fortunes turn very quickly in this industry.
 

ronnn

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
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Oh plenty of spin. I just found the last paragraph the most interesting. I think we will have full details at CES.
Full details doesn't sound like a release of anything. This sounds more everyday like the ati slogan of "you won't be disappointed". Than after waiting several months I was very disappointed.
 

Wreckage

Banned
Jul 1, 2005
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I cringe at the thought that anyone of any authority or significance at either company might actually give two shits about what a bunch of us forum rats have to say or think about their respective businesses.
Both companies maintain a presence on tech forums. Either actual employees from ATI like Dave Baumann or the NVIDIA focus group.
 

dajeepster

Golden Member
Apr 15, 2001
1,974
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Except at the same price point, the Radeon 5700 series is being beat by the Radeon 4800 series. The only advantage that the Radeon 5700 series has at that pricepoint is DX11.
so true.. speaking from experience... have both cards :'(
 

lifeblood

Senior member
Oct 17, 2001
991
77
91
No company will base it's strategy or roadmap on the winning of some forum rats. However, they will add features to products or fix problems if enough people on enough forums whine. No company survives long if they if they don't listen to their customers. While we are a fringe group we are a knowledgeable group and do have an impact on their products. How many of us work at electronics stores or sell PC's or recommend (or build) PC's for friends and family? Nobody cares about individual opinions, but they do pay attention to the overall opinion.
 

lifeblood

Senior member
Oct 17, 2001
991
77
91
I read the article and I really think nVidia is on to something. I think it may finally be the age of 3d and nVidia is right there in the midst of it. Look around you and we keep seeing 3D mentioned (games, blue ray, etc). Assuming they don't make too many more mistakes I really don't see the DX11 delay hurting them long term. If I was ATI I would be more concerned with where my company is in respect to 3D more than celebrating any temporary lead in DX11.
 
Jan 24, 2009
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Well, it's not like people haven't been obsessed with 3D before.. I really think the problem with longevity and acceptance is people just don't like putting things on their faces to experience it.
 

Wreckage

Banned
Jul 1, 2005
5,529
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Well, it's not like people haven't been obsessed with 3D before.. I really think the problem with longevity and acceptance is people just don't like putting things on their faces to experience it.
I went and saw "UP" in 3D and the theater was packed with people wearing goofy glasses.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,118
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81
I went and saw "UP" in 3D and the theater was packed with people wearing goofy glasses.
It was awesome in 3D, same with "chance of meatballs" and Ice Age 3. My kids love those movies in 3D.

If they ever get 3D TV working with those polarized glasses I have to imagine most family households with kids are going to become adopters.
 

yh125d

Diamond Member
Dec 23, 2006
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I think 3d could easily turn out very great



in 15-20 years. In the next 5? Not so much
 
Jan 24, 2009
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I went and saw "UP" in 3D and the theater was packed with people wearing goofy glasses.
Well, 3D movies have been around for awhile, I can't say I enjoy them any more than a regular movie. I'm more interested in plot and thematic presentation. Pew pew lasers are nice, but they don't make a movie for me.

I'm not saying UP in particular was bad by any means, as I thoroughly enjoyed it.

What I think I'm trying to say is that 3D, from what I can surmise, seems to be a venue specific phenomenon where people are more willing to accept it.

I don't have any personal experience with either elsa3d or the virtual boy, but I believe they both flopped terribly. Although it's definitely a combination of factors that led to both of those, not only because it was something to be worn on the face.

I have however seen 3D vision, and while it was certainly interesting, I'm not sure I'd want to wear those glasses all the time. Maybe I'm just being nitpicky and everyone else loves wearing them.

edit: As an addendum, my friend who has the 3D vision kit thing, doesn't use them, as he already gets motion sickness from some games, and they just make it worse. So, perhaps I've been exposed to mostly inadmissible experiences with them due to pre-existing conditions.
 
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Highmodulus

Member
Nov 10, 2005
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Sooner Fermi is out- the better for consumers. Plus Nvidia will get the chance to gouge certain hardcore fanbois but good. Plus with both ATI and Nvidia DX11 parts hitting consumers in 2010, more games will support it, which is a win for everyone IMHO.
 

v8envy

Platinum Member
Sep 7, 2002
2,720
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"3d" is a gimmick. It looks nice for rendered content, but just isn't that great overall. It's definitely no hologram and the novelty wears off quickly. You HAVE to stare at the screen dead on, or the illusion of depth perception breaks quickly and strangely.

I still prefer the "2d" for films myself. However, if the technology is cheap enough to be considered free having the option is better than not. That's still at least 5 years away though, IMO.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
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I'll agree with Nvidia that AMD's lead, even if it turns out to be 6 months between the 9/23/09 5870 launch and Fermi's launch, is not significant when compared to the probable lifetime of DX11. But, AMD's lead may or may not turn out to be significant in the current generation of hardware.

The way Nvidia worded it, it is probably true. But if Fermi doesn't show up until March - April many users may already have upgraded, and then it presumably won't be too long until AMD's refresh shows up, so AMD's lead in the current hardware generation could indeed be significant.
 

thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
11,373
1,226
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Posted at XS:
Originally Posted by villa1n

Jen Hsun Huang: Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to render dx 11 is insignificant next to the power of the geForce.
Admiral Motti D: Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerous ways, Lord Huang. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure up dx11 cards, or given you clairvoyance enough to create a working fermi...
[Jen Hsun Huang makes a pinching motion and A M D starts choking]
Jen Hsun Huang: I find your lack of faith disturbing.


:D
 

Wreckage

Banned
Jul 1, 2005
5,529
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The thing is very soon NVIDIA will have DX11 support, while ATI will still lack any real answer to CUDA, PhysX, 3D, etc.
 

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