AMD's ACE in the hole - only game in town for VR

[TheProgrammer]

I'm planning my VR rig for the SteamVR/Vive and from my research it appears AMD has an ace up their sleeve with async shaders. If building for VR as I am, it's the only sane option at the top tier VR level of hardware, $650 and beyond.

While the Fury X didn't blow the competition out of the water, it is still the only reasonable option at $650+. You can add HDMI 2.0 support with an adapter if you need it, but you can't add async compute shaders to your card..

I'm thinking the dual Fiji will be where it's at for VR with its async shaders, and less problematic Crossfire thanks to LiquidVR, DX12 and Vulkan reducing driver complexity.
I've lost interest in the $200-$500 range of cards at this point. Excessive performance for most of the top 10 played Steam games, yet too slow for VR.
So I'm leaning towards getting a R7 360 for now for my competitive 3D/2D gaming needs (1080 only, I never liked AA/AF as I swear it introduces slight lag), then upgrade to dual Fiji for SteamVR. If APUs were acceptable for 1080 (which Skylake may be soon, and Zen+HBM APUs will certainly be), I wouldn't even bother with a R7 360 for this rig.. but I think there's still a few last gasps for standalone cards to necessitate a purchase for 1080P gaming.

Not for long, then we'll be looking at built-in APU power for 1080P and stepping up to dual Fiji for VR. Exciting times! They are, or will be changing very soon.

 

[LTC8K6]

Maxwell 2 should be fine.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9124/amd-dives-deep-on-asynchronous-shading

 

[SolMiester]

Yeah, I was going to say by the time VR hits its straps, NV will have that covered, but, seems it already has!

 

[3DVagabond]

Yeah, I was going to say by the time VR hits its straps, NV will have that covered, but, seems it already has!

What is nVidia's implementation? I've only seen Liquid VR.

 

[antihelten]

What is nVidia's implementation? I've only seen Liquid VR.

Gameworks VR:

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/vr

 

[3DVagabond]

Gameworks VR:

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/vr

Thanks. I'll check it out.

 

[Kallogan]

never liked AA too

not sure about AF introducing lag though

 

[dacostafilipe]

As far as I know:

- Gameworks VR is a set of OpenGL extensions.
- LiquidVR is Mantle with VR specific features.

I'm no VR expert, but knowing that those dev's are looking for every possible reduction in latency, LiquidVR seems more promising at the moment. But DX12/Vulkan will certainly change that ...

 

[zlatan]

Both SDK can work with any API. Most VR games will be based on DX12 and Vulkan. Gameworks VR works with API specific extensions, while LiquidVR works with a VR optimized Mantle version.

What's unique in LiquidVR is the latest data latch feature, and the timewarp soluiton.
A latest data latch allows more efficient head tracking, which is not possible with standard APIs. That's why they use Mantle.
The timewarpis also different in LiquidVR. GameWorks VR works with draw-level preemption, which is very inefficient with long draws, because it will delay the context switch. AMD use a compute based pipeline, which is more efficient, and there is an extension for Radeon R9 285/380/Fury, because these GPUs can support fine-grained preemption. This is the ultimate solution for VR, and NVidia told me they will switch to fine-grained preemption when their new architecture is ready.

For the best possible VR experience you should buy a GPU with fine-grained preemption support.

 

[Silverforce11]

I haven't seen anything credible relating to VR "review", I tried 3d gaming before but after a bit of time, I get motion sickness so its too distracting to enjoy.

I wonder if the same issue occur for VR, or is it designed with that solution in mind?

 

[zlatan]

Motion sickness is a problem with VR. But there are some solutions for that. A virtual nose is the most simple workaround, and it is effective.

 

[TheProgrammer]

This thread is only about AMD and their VR. What the other guys are doing is irrelevant. But, how come Crytek (Robinson) and CCP (Eve) amongst others are using LiquidVR while nobody seems to be using that other stuff?

That never happens by accident to AMD.

never liked AA too

not sure about AF introducing lag though

Yup, great for benchmarking and if you don't play competitively but otherwise it helps with nothing.

Though I'd really prefer a tech/review site pop up that uses games people actually play, like some of the titles off the Steam top 10 list. http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

Also League of Legends. 35+ million players, and even if it's pointless to continually benchmark that game, people need to see the truth about what they're buying and really do with them.

I'd wager to bet the vast majority of buyers don't enable features like AA/AF, yet benchmarks have those settings set almost all the time.
We need a review site for people that actually play games. For years, decades, like many of us have and will continue to.

 

[Dribble]

I haven't seen anything credible relating to VR "review", I tried 3d gaming before but after a bit of time, I get motion sickness so its too distracting to enjoy.

I wonder if the same issue occur for VR, or is it designed with that solution in mind?

VR is like 3D amplified - if you get motion sickness for 3D then VR will be much worse. While I like VR I do find it somewhat surprising how positive people are being about it given how many seem to hate 3D.

 

[Stormflux]

Maxwell 2 should be fine.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9124/amd-dives-deep-on-asynchronous-shading

Ryan, in that article, if you read the comments is being stubborn and not updating his table. Maxwell 2 should be fine but, GCN 1.1/1.2 will be even better.

LiquidVR was making all the rounds at E3.

 

[TheProgrammer]

never liked AA too

not sure about AF introducing lag though

Ryan, in that article, if you read the comments is being stubborn and not updating his table. Maxwell 2 should be fine but, GCN 1.1/1.2 will be even better.

LiquidVR was making all the rounds at E3.

Exactly. For VR it's all about tier 3 resource binding AND async shaders.
If you're building or intending to use VR, you want GCN (Radeon).

If one doesn't want to jump on a Fiji board today, the R9 280 is a great holdover at $200 that will do well at 1080P gaming today and tomorrow.

This is also why Fiji launch is a success and the no-brainer at $650+ (VR/highend-level hardware)- its got the raw performance for VR, and you can add HDMI2.0 support with an adapter, but you can't add ACE with tier 3 resource binding to a card.

 

[zlatan]

This thread is only about AMD and their VR. What the other guys are doing is irrelevant. But, how come Crytek (Robinson) and CCP (Eve) amongst others are using LiquidVR while nobody seems to be using that other stuff?

Most upcomming VR games will support GameWorks VR and LiquidVR. This is a must with Eve and Robinson graphics complexity. They demo LiquidVR, because the whole AMD package (GCN+Mantle+tools) is way better than what NVidia provide. But this doesn't mean they won't support GameWorks VR. It is also better than the base Oculus SDK.

 

[zlatan]

Exactly. For VR it's all about tier 3 resource binding AND async shaders.
If you're building or intending to use VR, you want GCN (Radeon).

If one doesn't want to jump on a Fiji board today, the R9 280 is a great holdover at $200 that will do well at 1080P gaming today and tomorrow.

This is also why Fiji launch is a success and the no-brainer at $650+ (VR/highend-level hardware)- its got the raw performance for VR, and you can add HDMI2.0 support with an adapter, but you can't add ACE with tier 3 resource binding to a card.

Resource binding TIER 3 has nothing to do with VR. It will help overall and not just for VR.
You don't need HDMI 2.0, because the Rift is an HDMI 1.4 hardware.

 

[Stuka87]

VR is like 3D amplified - if you get motion sickness for 3D then VR will be much worse. While I like VR I do find it somewhat surprising how positive people are being about it given how many seem to hate 3D.

This is really not true. VR and 3D are not the same thing at all as far as what your eyes are seeing.

 

[TheProgrammer]

Most upcomming VR games will support GameWorks VR and LiquidVR. This is a must with Eve and Robinson graphics complexity. They demo LiquidVR, because the whole AMD package (GCN+Mantle+tools) is way better than what NVidia provide. But this doesn't mean they won't support GameWorks VR. It is also better than the base Oculus SDK.

Links/proof? I've seen nothing to backup such an assertion.

 

[tential]

When is the first gaming coming out that supports liquid vr?

 

[sontin]

Most upcomming VR games will support GameWorks VR and LiquidVR. This is a must with Eve and Robinson graphics complexity. They demo LiquidVR, because the whole AMD package (GCN+Mantle+tools) is way better than what NVidia provide. But this doesn't mean they won't support GameWorks VR. It is also better than the base Oculus SDK.

What? Eve was demonstrated on nVidia hardware last year and every big developer is using nVidia cards - Epic, Crytek, Valve, Oculus etc.

Can we stop this overhyping of AMD and their products? It just needs to stop.

 

[nevdawg]

What? Eve was demonstrated on nVidia hardware last year and every big developer is using nVidia cards - Epic, Crytek, Valve, Oculus etc.

Can we stop this overhyping of AMD and their products? It just needs to stop.

This is an AMD subforum afterall, we aren't here to talk about what nVidia has or has not done.

 

[Stuka87]

What? Eve was demonstrated on nVidia hardware last year and every big developer is using nVidia cards - Epic, Crytek, Valve, Oculus etc.

Can we stop this overhyping of AMD and their products? It just needs to stop.

At this last E3, every dev (That I have seen reported anyway) that was showing VR was using AMD hardware.

There was even one VR dev that got a Fury before E3.

 

[zlatan]

Links/proof? I've seen nothing to backup such an assertion.

I talk with them. They promoted LiquidVR on E3, I know it. They want you to play these games on AMD, because NVidia can't provide the same experience. But this doesn't mean that they won't support GameWorks VR. Even if it's worse than LiquidVR, it will help to create better experience compared to the base Oculus SDK.

 

[zlatan]

What? Eve was demonstrated on nVidia hardware last year and every big developer is using nVidia cards - Epic, Crytek, Valve, Oculus etc.

Can we stop this overhyping of AMD and their products? It just needs to stop.

It was last year. Now LiquidVR and the whole AMD package is way better for VR, than what NVidia provides. This is an evolving industry, and if someone come up with a better solution, than the industry will use that.