AMD X2 or Intel D

[fatty4ksu]

Originally posted by: SketchMaster
Another thing I have been thinking about is a dual CPU setup. I Mainly do Editing, DVD authoring, Digital image work, and a good amount of gaming in my spare time. So for Price/Power what do you guys think would be better, Dual core or dual CPU?

Also, can you have only one CPU in a dual CPU motherboard?

x2, and 2 gigs of ram. When running TPMGENC i hit 1.5 gigs used often.

 

[SketchMaster]

*Reads Zebo's post*

"hmmmm..."

*Starts checking price on 275*

"So he said a Opty 275 would be nice. Sounds like a pretty affordable chip, maybe in the $300 price ra- OH MY GOD! $1,300.00?!"

*Has sharp pain in chest and falls over*


Thats a bit out of my price range.

 

[Zebo]

LOL yea it's serious hardware... like I said that high-end server wktn stuff (opteron/xeons) is not even worth considering if you have any concept of value.

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: SketchMaster
Another thing I have been thinking about is a dual CPU setup. I Mainly do Editing, DVD authoring, Digital image work, and a good amount of gaming in my spare time. So for Price/Power what do you guys think would be better, Dual core or dual CPU?

Also, can you have only one CPU in a dual CPU motherboard?

Which software do you use for editing/FX?
All of the reviews that I've seen show a single X2 outperforming a dual Xeon workstation.
I am a professional editor myself (viditor = video + editor), as well as a consultant for many of the production companies/studios/networks...most of these have begun a migration to the AMD dualcores from their Xeon workstations.

As an example, Lucas has gone all AMD already...

 

[n7]

Pollownage

 

[SketchMaster]

Viditor, Right now I use Sony Vegas+DVD (Ya, I know. Ick.) but I'm planing on switching to Adobe. For imaging I use Adobe Photoshop, I'm also trying to teach myself Adobe After Effects.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Originally posted by: SketchMaster
*Reads Zebo's post*

"hmmmm..."

*Starts checking price on 275*

"So he said a Opty 275 would be nice. Sounds like a pretty affordable chip, maybe in the $300 price ra- OH MY GOD! $1,300.00?!"

*Has sharp pain in chest and falls over*


Thats a bit out of my price range.

Check out the 875:Q

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Pentium D processors do not allow monitoring the temperature of both cores, this feature is implemented only in dual-core server processors. So, to our great disappointment we cannot find out what actually happened with the second core. In our case, only the second core got overheated and went to thermal throttling, while the first core kept working normally.

That makes zero sense. If they can't monitor the second core, than just HOW did they ascertain that it was throttling down? Oh, yeah, the CPU load dipped? Come on.

WTF you saw the toms review where CPU load that looked like a heart monitor did'nt you?

<sigh>

I thought Tom's "tests" were already given to the cross-cut shredders.

At any rate, someone suggested one ought to use ThrottleWatch. But if there is no way to monitor the second core, how would one be certain it was throttling? A dip in the CPU % does not necessarily indicate a throttle condition.

 

[Zebo]

Hey can you 4 who voted PentiumD provide some context for your choice?

I think even the 4200+ beats them on price/performance since it's 30% faster. Can you confiqure a PD with mobo, 1 gig or ram, and 820 for 30% less money than $680 for the 4200 setup? I could be wrong but I can't do it.

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: SketchMaster
Viditor, Right now I use Sony Vegas+DVD (Ya, I know. Ick.) but I'm planing on switching to Adobe. For imaging I use Adobe Photoshop, I'm also trying to teach myself Adobe After Effects.

Sony editing has always made me crazy, but it's not because it's a bad system...I just learned on different models (purely subjective...). You might want to look into the new PremierePro 1.5, if for no other reason than it integrates very well with After Effects and Photoshop. But the Vegas system does indeed utilize dual cores quite well (as does the Adobe system).
What's your system budget?
What are you planning on using from your old system?
If you are planning on mainly cuts, the Intel will probably be just as good...but for the effects and games, the X2 and dual core Opterons are the only reasonable choice at this point...

My personal suggestion (if it's within your budget) is a single Opteron 270, Asus K8N-DL, and 2 GB ECC PC3200 (2x1GB)...$1700. This is a dual board, so you can add another DC Opteron down the track when prices drop, as well as more Ram (6 slots available with 2 CPUs). It is PCIe, so you may need a new video card, or you could use a Tyan Thunder K8W S2885ANRF (but it's ~$135 more expensive).

 

[agogley]

This is always a difficult topic. AMD clearly outperforms the intel chips at this point in time. But if you aren't doing a lot of gaming, you might not notice the difference. If you are building a new computer, the Pentium D certainly looks attractively priced. The DDR2 also is a good investment from my perspective because AMD is working on a DDR2 chipset for launch next year. Futureproof? I don't know how anybody things they are future proof. You are gonna spend $1000 or more today and tomorrow AMD will announce a DDR2 chipset while Intel announces the 65nm based chips. What you have to look at is who will offer the most upgrade paths.

 

[phaxmohdem]

X2's = da bomb..... I'd have one by now but my arse = broke

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: agogley
This is always a difficult topic. AMD clearly outperforms the intel chips at this point in time. But if you aren't doing a lot of gaming, you might not notice the difference. If you are building a new computer, the Pentium D certainly looks attractively priced. The DDR2 also is a good investment from my perspective because AMD is working on a DDR2 chipset for launch next year. Futureproof? I don't know how anybody things they are future proof. You are gonna spend $1000 or more today and tomorrow AMD will announce a DDR2 chipset while Intel announces the 65nm based chips. What you have to look at is who will offer the most upgrade paths.

Don't know if I agree at this stage...while the Pentium D is available in lower end and less expensive models, their motherboards are far MORE expensive. This tends to offset any price advantages...
As to DDR2 being an investment, I might agree as long as you're getting 667Mhz or faster...

 

[Pabster]

Trying to keep up with technology is a losing battle.

DDR2 is hardly a future-proof investment. AMD has already announced late 2006 or early 2007 they'll be moving to DDR3.

Buy what you can afford now, but don't expect it to be "future proof".

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: SketchMaster
Another thing I have been thinking about is a dual CPU setup. I Mainly do Editing, DVD authoring, Digital image work, and a good amount of gaming in my spare time. So for Price/Power what do you guys think would be better, Dual core or dual CPU?

Also, can you have only one CPU in a dual CPU motherboard?

I missed this question entirely (I'm blaming it on a misspent youth...)!

Yes, you can have a single CPU in a dual socket board...

Buy what you can afford now, but don't expect it to be "future proof"

I agree completely Pabster...though I must say that the 939 boards w/X2 were a pleasant exception to this rule...

 

[Capt Caveman]

fyi - you can get an Asus 945 motherboard w/ integrated graphics for as little as $120.

 

[Hacp]

Biostar el cheapo Mobo+PQI ddr2 667 RAM+Pentium D=467
95+117+250

 

[n yusef]

Originally posted by: Hacp
Biostar el cheapo Mobo+PQI ddr2 667 RAM+Pentium D=467
95+117+250

You can do that, but the mobo isn't too good (you won't overclock too high), the RAM has HIGH latency, and the PD is pretty slow at stock.

 

[SketchMaster]

Originally posted by: Viditor
What's your system budget?
What are you planning on using from your old system?
If you are planning on mainly cuts, the Intel will probably be just as good...but for the effects and games, the X2 and dual core Opterons are the only reasonable choice at this point...

My personal suggestion (if it's within your budget) is a single Opteron 270, Asus K8N-DL, and 2 GB ECC PC3200 (2x1GB)...$1700. This is a dual board, so you can add another DC Opteron down the track when prices drop, as well as more Ram (6 slots available with 2 CPUs). It is PCIe, so you may need a new video card, or you could use a Tyan Thunder K8W S2885ANRF (but it's ~$135 more expensive).

Budget is sort of a unknown right now as I don't really have any income. (See my post here for more info.)

I'm planing on selling most of the stuff from my current system. Motherboard, AGP video card, maybe my OCZ Plat rev. 2 so I can get some ECC ram, so pretty much I can work with any option out there. I'm hoping by the time I get all the money together the prices for Dual cores will have gone down.

I'm thinking AMD so I can start playing with effects more and not have to wait an hour to see how it looks, and then maybe have some fun now and then.

 

[SketchMaster]

Also will something like the K8N-DL fit in the Antec 180? Looked at the sizes and it looks like it can hold it but I'm not sure if it will still be to tight of a fit.

 

[Hard Ball]

Asus K8N-DL should fit in 99% of the standard ATX mobos, I have confirmed this with multiple users before buying. I have one enroute from monarch now.

There is only the small bottom of the L-shape that maybe an inch or so in width that sticks out compared to a regular ATX board, but most HDD cages are will have be recessed from the 5" bays anyway; and the best part is that where the board is L-shaped, the connectors are horizontal, so even if you have an HDD that overlaps partially with the board, the SATA and the IDE ports should still have no problem to be reached.

 

[DanDaMan315]

Originally posted by: Zebo
The main problem with PentiumD is overclocking for me. The amount of heat it dumps into HS is around 250W when clocking to only 3.4, and that's all the guys are getting at xtreme off water or good air. After all that heat, exotic cooling, a 3.4 OC is still slower than a stock 4200+ since the 4200 beats the 3.2 840 real bad (see sig)

Second, why would anyone want 3 years old performance in single threaded apps? a 820 is about the same performance as a 2.6 nothwood in most all single threads since it only runs at 2.8 and 2.8 is slow for a prescott, slower than northwood.. OC and it get's better but again at a signifigant heat and power penalty and you're still slow compared to a stock 4200+.

And we hav'nt even talked about OCing the X2 yet. X2 runs about a 1.65 PD multiplier. Meaning you X2 Mhz x 1.65 = PD speed

2600Mhz on stock cooling seems rather trivial from forums posts I've seen. So 2600Mhz x 1.65 means you'd need about a 4200Mhz PD to be equal!!! Read Impossible without phase change.

Naw -- Even if it costed $100 I think I'd stay away from PD and get a "old" northwood instead and shoot for 3.7ish if I had to buy intel. X2's Competition is none.

Zebo you always say it so well.

I love you man, lol.

 

[Lithan]

Everyone else has already said it. PD is a turd that has ZERO saving graces. X2 is a processor which dominates in everything but costs $500+ now (should be available for $350 in august)

 

[Dadofamunky]

Just for my basic opinion, dollar for dollar you cannot beat the X2 4200+ or 4400+. Yeah, the P4Ds are cheaper, but in this case you WILL get what you pay for. Forget OCing unless you have water or phase change, which IMHO is really not worth the hassle. They are two Prescotts glued together. They're a stopgap until Intel gets its act together and puts out a REAL SMP architecture.

The X2s have architectural differences that make them more of a true SMP solution on a single die than the P4Ds do. (I am not ready to explain why this is in detail as I am about to go to BED.) Also, Mhz for Mhz, the X2s provide faster overall throughput for most tasks.

If I was building a new system (note that there are virtually no commerical PC builders offering X2 desktop machines yet, look at PC Magazine to see how slow these people are), it would be the X2 hands down, It is truly superior technology. Until Intel comes up with something better, I'm an AMD man.

But Intel has the marketing muscle and the OEM support. It is a verifiable fact. For those of us in AMD-land it really sucks.

 

[rgreen83]

Had to vote for the X2. Poll just asked which would I go for, with no circumstances named. If I could afford either right NOW, then money isnt really an issue anyways, so why not get the better performing of the two? I dont think many would defy logic and contend the 8xx actually outperforms the X2, just that its cheaper. I dont really have a brand preference, if performance/$+heat and noise ratio were close I would have no problem getting intel, Im a huge fan of the PM for mobiles and my GF just got one on my reccomendation.

Also since no circumstances were given, I just took my own for when I do go dual core. I (and many, if not a majority) already run a 939 setup, 3200, Neo2, 1GB ram, 9800xt. I plan to get the X2 3800 when released (few months or less supposedly), supposedly at $345, and I'll want an extra gig of ram also so an extra $75 (value only for me after reading Zebo's thread), $420 running total. -150 cpu (ebay) = $270 total upgrade.

If I went intel, lets say $200 for the cpu (same few months assuming generous price drop to be fair), then $125 for i945 MB comparable to neo2 (generous I think), $160 for 6600gt pci-e (tricky forced video upgrade, comparable to 9800xt but lose 128mb ram), then $175 for 2gb value ram, new water blocks for cpu and vid card $100, running total=$760. -80 MB, -150 CPU, -60 RAM, - 200 Video (ebay) = $270 total upgrade + alot of sh!t that I would rather not deal with.

For me I think the extra hassle involved with switching to PD alone is worth going X2, plus I think it will perform better and save me money on electricity bills for the extra power draw, and extra time the AC will run to keep my room cool. The reason I laid all this out is because I have a suspicion that most of the ppl here who could use a dual core cpu today already have a 939 setup today, ive had mine for a year and a half already and M2 wont be out for another year, sometime after (hopefully when DX10 or whatever cards become available) that I'll change motherboards, and pci-e VCs and DDR2 should be cheaper than agp and ddr1, 2 1/2 years dont seem bad to keep a motherboard to me.

What will I miss out on? A higher latency memory tech? A new bus protocol that doesnt really improve VC performance and no add-in cards for 1x will be available til I go that way anyways? SATA II? SM3.0? all hardly gotta have-its to me right NOW.