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AMD vs P4 question

A

ams30gts

Golden Member
i just need some opinions.

im gonna be looking for a new cpu/mobo combo soon.

i always see those sales at frys.

the ones that catch my eye are the P4/abit mobo 800mhz fsb (usually a 2.8 or 3.0 cpu) for around $250 or the amd/shuttle mobo (xp2500 barton) for about $140


in actual performance, does the P4 have that much more speed?

im just looking for opinions on them.


right now i have a xp1800/abit mobo
 
$110? No, the P4 won't be that much better. However, as many will tell you, it will overclock well.

Please don't worry about the 500 replies you'll get from fans of both sides. If you've narrowed your search down to those two, go with the 2500+.
 
What are you going to do with the computer? That will play a role in determining which is faster. However, IMO both are "fast enough" for a vast majority of users and uses. I would say if you are going to do a lot of audio/video encoding go with a P4. Otherwise, really, it won't matter all that much in terms of real-world noticability.

\Dan
 
A 2.8 or 3.0ghz P4 with HT oevr a 2500+??? I think so....The 2.8c is more comparable to a 3200+ barton and the 3.0ghz would be more like a 3400+ Barton if it existed in a majority of things....Likely much greater in some areas where the P4 excels ad can take advanatge of HT. Multitasking not even close.

I have some charts if you want to see them.....


Are you into ocing???

If you are I would get a 2400-2600+ mobile barton and throw that on a good NF2 mobo of around 70-80 bucks and push it to 2.4-2.6ghz range...Best bang for the buck...


I don't think you will notice that big of a gap jumping to a 2500+ Barton from the 1800+xp IMO...defintely going to a 3.0c you will....


If you only game and not really a power user you could go the barton route or wait for those fryes offers to start including a64's....
 
I think the point here is also, will you OC ? Almost everyone I have seen that get PC3200 memory (me included) get 2100-2200 (I only get 2165 I think) which is about the same speed at the 3.0c stock. So, if you OC the 3.0c, yes its faster, but its $110 more.

Money is where its at. For $300, you can get an Athlon64 3000+ and a mobo that will trash the 3.0c even OC'ed (but yes its also more money, I know)

Set a budget first, then decide. Also, it does matter what you do with it, but for the encoding I do, I let it run overnight, so I don;t care how long it takes, but I don;t like my games laggy..
 
If you're planning on using hyperthreading, make sure you've got WinXP or else a HT-compatible Linux, and not Win2000 Pro.
 
Originally posted by: Markfw900
I think the point here is also, will you OC ? Almost everyone I have seen that get PC3200 memory (me included) get 2100-2000 (I only get 2165 I think) which is about the same spped at the 3.0c stock. So, if you OC the 3.0c, yes its faster, but its $110 more.



Money is where its at. For $300, you can get an Athlon64 3000+ and a mobo that will trash the 3.0c even OC'ed (but yes its also more money, I know)



Set a budget first, then decide. Also, it does matter what you do with it, but for the encoding I do, I let it run overnight, so I don;t care how long it takes, but I don;t like my games laggy..
Click to expand...



Hey I see you say that all the time...Where is your proof??? I mean you can't trash me at 3.5ghz with your current system now except in gaming but I am sure if I had the same card it would hardly be a trashing......

SO BASICAALY LET SOME DATA TO BACK UP THIS CLAIM YOU MAKE ALL THE TIME!!!!

If you are only talking about gaming then mention it otherwise that is a broad and very inaccurate statement....
 
Originally posted by: Duvie
Originally posted by: Markfw900
I think the point here is also, will you OC ? Almost everyone I have seen that get PC3200 memory (me included) get 2100-2000 (I only get 2165 I think) which is about the same spped at the 3.0c stock. So, if you OC the 3.0c, yes its faster, but its $110 more.



Money is where its at. For $300, you can get an Athlon64 3000+ and a mobo that will trash the 3.0c even OC'ed (but yes its also more money, I know)



Set a budget first, then decide. Also, it does matter what you do with it, but for the encoding I do, I let it run overnight, so I don;t care how long it takes, but I don;t like my games laggy..
Click to expand...



Hey I see you say that all the time...Where is your proof??? I mean you can't trash me at 3.5ghz with your current system now except in gaming but I am sure if I had the same card it would hardly be a trashing......

SO BASICAALY LET SOME DATA TO BACK UP THIS CLAIM YOU MAKE ALL THE TIME!!!!

If you are only talking about gaming then mention it otherwise that is a broad and very inaccurate statement....
Click to expand...

I thought it was clear the way I phrased it, but here it is: IN GAMES IT WILL BE FASTER, IN ENCODING DEPENDING ON THE OC AND THE APPLICATION, THE P4 WINS, BUT I DON'T CARE ABOUT FRICKING ENCODING THAT I LET RUN ALL NIGHT.
 
well....what i will be using the comp for is some gaming and video encoding. as in games....i only play like war craft...ea sports games...counter stike once in a while. in video encoding...i use tmpgenc and CCE. i also do a lot of work with adobe premiere and photoshop

i will most likely not be overclocking the cpu

and i am running win xp and raid hds

and 1gb kingston pc2700 valueram
 
Originally posted by: ams30gts
well....what i will be using the comp for is some gaming and video encoding.

i will most likely not be overclocking the cpu

and i am running win xp and raid hds

and 1gb kingston pc2700 valueram
Click to expand...

OK, again, what is the budget, and which of the two is more important to you ?????
 
If it's not a heavy gaming PC, the Barton will be an insanely better value, even with no overclocking.
Now, if you plan on crunching w/ SETI, ripping MPEGs, and gaming at the same time, all day, the P4 will be better.
Unless you encode ALL THE TIME, it won't make that much difference. yes Duvie, I said it. My TBred @1.72 is fine for anything I do, including gaming.
Yes, HT is good, but it's not the second coming, unless you treat your PC like a dually.
 
The author doesn't mention gaming as his use...He does need to clarify that for us....BUt then once again you don't say it either. I know the majority of ppl game here for some unkonwn reason but just clarify stuff. Isn't hard.

What encoding appliaction does not favor the P4?? And in that case is it trashing the P4??? I have ran enough different encoding, rendering, distributed computing apps to know it is a majority of all apps and even ones not optimised for ht will be faster on the p4.



Trash is still way to harsh to put it. The fact is many 2.8 and 3.0c's make it to 3.5ghz. I don't see the 3000+ trashing a 3.4ghz northwood so I don't think it would trash an oc'd 3.0c. One the other hand oc the A64 and maybe it gets the bigger leads but far from "trashing".....
 
budget is probably around $250 ish. its not really a big issue. gaming is already fine on my comp right now. so i would say video encoding is more important
 
ams30gts, what ABit motherboard is in the P4 bundle, is it based on the i865PE/i865G/i875P chipset? Tell us about your memory modules, are they matching or are they dissimilar (different numbers of chips, for example)?
 
Originally posted by: Cerb
If it's not a heavy gaming PC, the Barton will be an insanely better value, even with no overclocking.
Now, if you plan on crunching w/ SETI, ripping MPEGs, and gaming at the same time, all day, the P4 will be better.
Unless you encode ALL THE TIME, it won't make that much difference. yes Duvie, I said it. My TBred @1.72 is fine for anything I do, including gaming.
Yes, HT is good, but it's not the second coming, unless you treat your PC like a dually.
Click to expand...


I pretty much do...If I am not running a dedicated 24/7 unit of FH I am rendering an animation project or encoding one of my Divx movies (I have many many left to convert).....

My wife has a tbred at that same speed and for what I do even in single task mode it is insufficient for me. My charts show my 3.5ghz gets 40+% over my 2.4c at stock and a 2.4c will be noticeabley faster thena 2100+ Tbred....

Heavy gaming...get the Barton as it wont be very noticeable....

Encoding the apps you listed get the 2.8 or 3.0c

Here some data the other guys never seem to have....

TMPGenc v2.52 HT on

P4 3.5 = 2:08
P4 3.0 = 2:29 (16.4%)
P4 2.4 = 3:05 (44.5%)
3200+ = 3:16 (53.2%) ****imagine the 2500+ is much worse*** Take that out over a 2 hour 2 pass VBR movie.....We are talking hours....

Besweet Wav to AC3 encoding

P4 3.5 = 3:43
3200+ = 4:19 (16.1%)
P4 3.0 = 4:21 (17.0%)
P4 2.4 = 5:06 (37.2%)

WMV codec 9.0 (PCmark2004)

P4 3.5 = 62.563fps
P4 3.0 = 54.510fps (14.8%)
3200+ = 46.543fps (34.4%)
P4 2.4 = 44.312fps (41.1%)

Divx 5.10pro Xmpeg 4.5 (PCmark2004)

P4 3.5 = 70.483fps
P4 3.0 = 61.457fps (14.7%)
3200+ = 53.623fps (31.4%)
P4 2.4 = 50.742fps (38.9%)

DVD2AVI v1.77 (make an avs project file from Gone in 60sec DVD and stripping audio ac3 tracks)

P4 3.5 = 5:34
P4 3.0 = 5:53 (5.7%)
P4 2.4 = 6:42 (20.4%)

DVDshrink3.0Beta5 (Gone in 60seconds (full) DVD; 64% compression automatic)

P4 3.5 = 15:10
P4 3.0 = 17:05 (12.6%)
P4 2.4 = 20:30 (35.2%)


You guys play it off like it is nothing...The A64 is a better comparison te Barton and a bred is not in the same ballpark unless heavily oc'd while the P4 is not...

 
Originally posted by: mechBgon
ams30gts, what ABit motherboard is in the P4 bundle, is it based on the i865PE/i865G/i875P chipset? Tell us about your memory modules, are they matching or are they dissimilar (different numbers of chips, for example)?
Click to expand...


my ram does match. exactly the same as eachother.

about the mobo, i think its the IT7 or VT7 but cant be forsure until i see another ad
 
Originally posted by: ams30gts
Originally posted by: mechBgon
ams30gts, what ABit motherboard is in the P4 bundle, is it based on the i865PE/i865G/i875P chipset? Tell us about your memory modules, are they matching or are they dissimilar (different numbers of chips, for example)?
Click to expand...


my ram does match. exactly the same as eachother.

about the mobo, i think its the IT7 but cant be forsure until i see another ad
Click to expand...
Matching RAM is good for dual-channel goodness with i865/i875. If it were matching PC3200 modules then that would be even better. Duvie or anyone, what's the performance drop when using PC2700 with an 800MHz-bus P4?

 
You guys play it off like it is nothing...The A64 is a better comparison te Barton and a bred is not in the same ballpark unless heavily oc'd while the P4 is not...
Click to expand...
That's because it is nothing.
There is a point at which things become "fast enough."
For many of us, that has now happened with video encoding and gaming (for the time being). So until we need to regularly do HDTV or HD-DVD (or whatever they end up calling it by the time they add a new encryption scheme), the current hardware is fine, and we're not worried about it.
Most of your benchmarks we can look at like somebody taking their brand new PC and seeing how many hundreds of FPS they can get in Quake3. Good to make sure everything is performing up to snuff, but hardly an amazing feat worthy of upgrading for.
Sure, everyone isn't that way, hence bringing video encoding ALL THE TIME into the picture.

And maybe tone it down. Evangelists with Intel Inside stickers or Xaser cases with multicolored lights are almost as annoying as the kind with bibles and Jesus ties. Though there's a big gap between "almost" and "as," I'll admit.
 
Originally posted by: Duvie
Originally posted by: Markfw900
I think the point here is also, will you OC ? Almost everyone I have seen that get PC3200 memory (me included) get 2100-2000 (I only get 2165 I think) which is about the same spped at the 3.0c stock. So, if you OC the 3.0c, yes its faster, but its $110 more.



Money is where its at. For $300, you can get an Athlon64 3000+ and a mobo that will trash the 3.0c even OC'ed (but yes its also more money, I know)



Set a budget first, then decide. Also, it does matter what you do with it, but for the encoding I do, I let it run overnight, so I don;t care how long it takes, but I don;t like my games laggy..
Click to expand...



Hey I see you say that all the time...Where is your proof??? I mean you can't trash me at 3.5ghz with your current system now except in gaming but I am sure if I had the same card it would hardly be a trashing......

SO BASICAALY LET SOME DATA TO BACK UP THIS CLAIM YOU MAKE ALL THE TIME!!!!

If you are only talking about gaming then mention it otherwise that is a broad and very inaccurate statement....
Click to expand...


i think you are the one making an inaccurate statement then. Gaming is something that average users do a lot more than encoding (which you seem to be a HUGE fan of considering the majority of your benchies consist of encoding). And of top of it, most "multitasking" (unless its virus scan +game or something~ but then the HDD can be a bottleneck) really isn't stressing the computer like crazy for the MAJORITY of users...

...even on AT people say "ooh and ahhhH" to Hyperthreading after they run virus scan.

I'm not saying P4 isn't good, it is and if I was in need of a new rig I would consider a 2.8C or a 3000+A64, but you are hard hitting on a lot more "moot" points, especially things that aren't indicative of general usage
 
so im assuming...for my main purposes (video encoding) that the p4 would most likely be better for me.

money is really not the issue on this. im not going to OC most likely.
 
IMO, an upgrade from an XP1800 to to 2500 isn't going to buy you that much of a noticeable performance gain. For video encoding, get the Intel 3.0 C. If you're buying AMD, my advice would be to wait until you can get one of those 64s.
 
Originally posted by: Cerb
You guys play it off like it is nothing...The A64 is a better comparison te Barton and a bred is not in the same ballpark unless heavily oc'd while the P4 is not...
Click to expand...
That's because it is nothing.
There is a point at which things become "fast enough."
For many of us, that has now happened with video encoding and gaming (for the time being). So until we need to regularly do HDTV or HD-DVD (or whatever they end up calling it by the time they add a new encryption scheme), the current hardware is fine, and we're not worried about it.
Most of your benchmarks we can look at like somebody taking their brand new PC and seeing how many hundreds of FPS they can get in Quake3. Good to make sure everything is performing up to snuff, but hardly an amazing feat worthy of upgrading for.
Sure, everyone isn't that way, hence bringing video encoding ALL THE TIME into the picture.

And maybe tone it down. Evangelists with Intel Inside stickers or Xaser cases with multicolored lights are almost as annoying as the kind with bibles and Jesus ties. Though there's a big gap between "almost" and "as," I'll admit.
Click to expand...


What a bunch of ridiculous statements....

How is video encoding fast enough these days???????

I can see in gaming since for the most part with those 300fps quake score the only fact that matters is that as long as the fps don't fall below 30-60 fps it should be flawless for the eye when playing....

Video encoding doesn't work on that same premise. I wont be happy until I can encode a full 2hour movie in like minutes...The faster I encode it the more I can keep tinkering with settings I don't even begin to understand and get the best results. At current even with my system I don't have enough hours in the days to do that much work.

I got empirical dat behind me something most of you amd fans never seem to have to back you up...I don't need to tone down anything I just try to keep the amd side from trying to "skew" the facts which many do here without proper supervision.

I have plenty of test beyond encoding and yet I have never made any statements other then I am not a big gamer. However my eviews are far more balanced then anandtech's gamefest reviews....I have also done plenty of multitasking with many heavy cpu intensive apps. I have posted them here in some threads, as well as other forums as well...Elsewhere I tend to get less bashing but I expect from the crown here....

I wonder why I take 3 week vacations from this site!!!!! Hmmmmmmm
 
Duvie, try play Far Fry. It can bring any computer down to "just playable". And I don't know how to benchmark games, but I trust the sites like Anandtech that do. When you encode, you can allways wait a little longer (like go to bed). But for games, it has to be there "right now".

Screw that stats on encoding... And try playing some games and lighten up..
 
Originally posted by: Markfw900
Duvie, try play Far Fry. It can bring any computer down to "just playable". And I don't know how to benchmark games, but I trust the sites like Anandtech that do. When you encode, you can allways wait a little longer (like go to bed). But for games, it has to be there "right now".



Screw that stats on encoding... And try playing some games and lighten up..
Click to expand...

Markfw900 I dont think you're getting it.

Games are not the only things people do with their computers,what's the point in Duvie playing Far cry when he doesnt game and has a 8500 card and could probably care less how it runs.

I too will not be happy with cpu power until I can encode in seconds. 😉
 
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