AMD vs Intel

[Gamingphreek]

As everyone knows AMD and Intel are the leading manufacturers in CPU processing. However Intel was leading everything by a large margin. Then Cyrix came in and challenged intel only to fall down to the abyss and be bought by VIA. A little while later AMD began rising up and challenged Intels throne with the K6-2... (K6-3 doesn't really count too many flaws). Then AMD kept up with intel for the release of the Athlon series of processors. Now AMD and Intel are neck and neck with both companies offering very valuable technologies.

The question now is who is winning. Witht the release fo the AMD 64 chip AMD seems to have pulled the performance crown away from intel in desktop computing. Do either fo the companies have anything up their sleeves. and most of all, once again, who is winning and why.

Gosh most people already knew all that sh!t up topso i apologize . However with both technologies strong in their own things the question is inevitable. Will AMD take the crown... will Intel hold on to it and come out with a good successor to prescott?

-Kevin

 

[SickBeast]

All that I know is if I had $100,000 (that's a big IF) to invest in a CPU company, I would put it all into AMD for about a year. Intel is having too many problems, both manufacturing and otherwise, at the moment. AMD's Socket-939 platform apparently does not have an answer from intel this year.

The thing is tho, intel still has something insane like 80% market share, and I can't see this being deminished overnight. It would take years of AMD producing superior chips for less money than intel for their products to truly catch on. Heck, they're been doing that for the past few years since the Athlon was introduced, and they're barely taken a dent out of intel. There is the potential that the A64 will finally give them the respect they deserve, but the opinion of the vulgar masses continues to be that intel is the "brand name" for PC CPUs. It would be like someone inventing a new "Big Mac" sandwich, that was better than the original and cost half as much. It would take awhile for people to start buying and eating them. Sorry, that's the best analogy I could come up with at the moment.

P.S. This thread is flamebait!!! Please try not to be too harsh on me here! *flamesuit equipped*

 

[Gamingphreek]

Lol thats a good analogy. Also AMD i think is more common in desktop systems but Intel still has the respect and stability in the workstation.server class market. Also Intel has a small % of enterprise class hardware with the Itanium II.Why is AMD not answering with an Enterprise class chip? Yes they are an extremely tiny part of the market but a part nonethe less.

Why is intel having problems. Once prescott gets ramped up in the clock speed department they should have a more competitive albeit hotter chip than AMD.

Also what is on AMD and Intels road map as next processor technology... where talking like a big vhange not just a minor FSB jump or something.

Lol i wont be too harsh as long as i can get a flame retardent suit also
-Kevin

 

[Rottie]

I can't say much because I don't own Althon 64 just yet I would like to think if Microsoft offer 64 bit version of Windows OS, AMD would take a crown away from Intel. That is my humble opinion.

If I am totally WRONG then of course you can throw flame on me but do I need to borrow Sickbreast's flamesuit?

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Also what is on AMD and Intels road map as next processor technology... where talking like a big vhange not just a minor FSB jump or something.

It's pretty sketchy ATM, and it's impossible to predict the future, but both AMD and intel are apparently producing dual-cored CPUs. AMD's will be A64/Opteron based, and intel's will be based on a modified Pentium-M core (yes, they are going to be using their laptop chips in desktops ironically enough). The P-M kinda baffles me as it is based off the very old P3 architecture. It's almost as though intel has abandoned almost everything they have come up with over the past couple of years.

So, in a nutshell, it's impossible to say who will have the better processors in a year or so. The Athlon and Pentium-M CPUs are actually very comparable architecturally, as opposed to the P4 which was drastically different. I would guess that it's going to be a very tight race.

By the way, is intel planning on putting HT on the P-M's? I'm asking because the P-M has a very small pipeline; would it be able to fully take advantage of it?

 

[SickBeast]

My flamesuit is beast-sized and probably wouldn't fit you guys by the way. :beer:

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Also what is on AMD and Intels road map as next processor technology... where talking like a big vhange not just a minor FSB jump or something.

It's pretty sketchy ATM, and it's impossible to predict the future, but both AMD and intel are apparently producing dual-cored CPUs. AMD's will be A64/Opteron based, and intel's will be based on a modified Pentium-M core (yes, they are going to be using their laptop chips in desktops ironically enough). The P-M kinda baffles me as it is based off the very old P3 architecture. It's almost as though intel has abandoned almost everything they have come up with over the past couple of years.

So, in a nutshell, it's impossible to say who will have the better processors in a year or so. The Athlon and Pentium-M CPUs are actually very comparable architecturally, as opposed to the P4 which was drastically different. I would guess that it's going to be a very tight race.

By the way, is intel planning on putting HT on the P-M's? I'm asking because the P-M has a very small pipeline; would it be able to fully take advantage of it?

The new "Pentium 5" CPU will be a dual core, strained silicon, .09 micron chip, likely with more cache.

HT would have less impact on the Pentium-m because of the much shorter pipeline, however, they may use a different implementation of HT and just call it that... They could very easily call dual core technology Hyper-Threading because it will also make use of HT or SMP aware apps just like HT did.

Edit: My interest is whether intel is moving to their new Low-K implementation with the new chip, to reduce heat and power consumption even further, all while increasing clockspeed and overall performance dramatically.

 

[Duvie]

I thought HT was taking advantage of other things then branch misprediction and longer latencies, which it seems you guys are suggesting....I didn't think the longer pipeline had anything to do with it, but I could be wrong. I thought articles talked of it differently and suggested even and could benefit similarly if implemented to the p4cs now....

Anybody have any links to talk of HT being effected by pipeline length??? It would suggest then that HT is really just trying to take back the latency penalties the longer pipeline of the p4 architecture had thrown in the mix.....I also wonder then why the longer pipeline of the Prescott does not appear to be giving any greater results if your theories are right...The prescott is 150% larger then the p4c and yet I have seen or heard of no gains...therefore I would assume the p4c over the p4m would be of simlar range and therefore perform about the same....

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Duvie
I thought HT was taking advantage of other things then branch misprediction and longer latencies, which it seems you guys are suggesting....I didn't think the longer pipeline had anything to do with it, but I could be wrong. I thought articles talked of it differently and suggested even and could benefit similarly if implemented to the p4cs now....

Anybody have any links to talk of HT being effected by pipeline length??? It would suggest then that HT is really just trying to take back the latency penalties the longer pipeline of the p4 architecture had thrown in the mix.....I also wonder then why the longer pipeline of the Prescott does not appear to be giving any greater results if your theories are right...The prescott is 150% larger then the p4c and yet I have seen or heard of no gains...therefore I would assume the p4c over the p4m would be of simlar range and therefore perform about the same....

The way HT works is as the branch is executed it actually starts the next thread into the pipeline before the 1st one is finished. It can only do this if there is a 2nd thread to execute.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: Duvie
I thought HT was taking advantage of other things then branch misprediction and longer latencies, which it seems you guys are suggesting....I didn't think the longer pipeline had anything to do with it, but I could be wrong. I thought articles talked of it differently and suggested even and could benefit similarly if implemented to the p4cs now....

Anybody have any links to talk of HT being effected by pipeline length??? It would suggest then that HT is really just trying to take back the latency penalties the longer pipeline of the p4 architecture had thrown in the mix.....I also wonder then why the longer pipeline of the Prescott does not appear to be giving any greater results if your theories are right...The prescott is 150% larger then the p4c and yet I have seen or heard of no gains...therefore I would assume the p4c over the p4m would be of simlar range and therefore perform about the same....

The way HT works is as the branch is executed it actually starts the next thread into the pipeline before the 1st one is finished. It can only do this if there is a 2nd thread to execute.

So then if this is the case does the prescott do better with HT??? I guess it is hard to determine since the penalty of the longer pipeline is so great we can't comparatively look at similar speed northwoods and prescotts.....

Is Dothan going to be a dual cored chip???

 

[VIAN]

AMD is better.

I was wondering when they would get rid of that memory controller in the northbridge - it just makes sense. Anyway, Intel just kept coming with the raw power, although effective, mostly a marketing thing and a potential problem building up, which they have hit, releasing only a 200MHz speed bump in about a year.

The thing is tho, intel still has something insane like 80% market share, and I can't see this being deminished overnight. It would take years of AMD producing superior chips for less money than intel for their products to truly catch on. Heck, they're been doing that for the past few years since the Athlon was introduced, and they're barely taken a dent out of intel. There is the potential that the A64 will finally give them the respect they deserve, but the opinion of the vulgar masses continues to be that intel is the "brand name" for PC CPUs. It would be like someone inventing a new "Big Mac" sandwich, that was better than the original and cost half as much. It would take awhile for people to start buying and eating them. Sorry, that's the best analogy I could come up with at the moment.

All AMD needs is TV marketing. And once and if Dell signs on with AMD instead of Intel, Intel may well be considered heading for the fan.

Intel built their name up with the pentium commercials - remember the penitumII and the song2 by blur. AMD needs something like that.

 

[Sahakiel]

You really have to define "winning" before starting any discussion...

 

[Jeff7181]

Guess what guys... I STILL have a belly button!

 

[Gamingphreek]

Well by winning i mean in terms of performance, price, features, architecture, heat.... all that good stuff.

-Kevin

 

[OinkBoink]

i love AMD

 

[OinkBoink]

go AMD go :beer:

 

[OinkBoink]

lol :laugh:

 

[MichaelZ]

Originally posted by: VIAN
AMD is better.

I was wondering when they would get rid of that memory controller in the northbridge - it just makes sense. Anyway, Intel just kept coming with the raw power, although effective, mostly a marketing thing and a potential problem building up, which they have hit, releasing only a 200MHz speed bump in about a year.

The thing is tho, intel still has something insane like 80% market share, and I can't see this being deminished overnight. It would take years of AMD producing superior chips for less money than intel for their products to truly catch on. Heck, they're been doing that for the past few years since the Athlon was introduced, and they're barely taken a dent out of intel. There is the potential that the A64 will finally give them the respect they deserve, but the opinion of the vulgar masses continues to be that intel is the "brand name" for PC CPUs. It would be like someone inventing a new "Big Mac" sandwich, that was better than the original and cost half as much. It would take awhile for people to start buying and eating them. Sorry, that's the best analogy I could come up with at the moment.

All AMD needs is TV marketing. And once and if Dell signs on with AMD instead of Intel, Intel may well be considered heading for the fan.

Intel built their name up with the pentium commercials - remember the penitumII and the song2 by blur. AMD needs something like that.

Translation: I own AMD, now all I gotta do is try convince the rest of the world with my simplistic views. meh

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Guess what guys... I STILL have a belly button!

You rock Jeff :beer:

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Intel is winning. Brand Name Recognition and clever marketing *lot's of it!!!* sells CPUs, not the best tech or performance E.G. Celeron, 'nuff said?

 

[Duvie]

The fact is in the real world, in which some of you ppl seem to be oblivious too, money talks....

Intel has been having several quarters of huge profits, and meeting analst expectations...AMD just recently went back in the black....

Until Intel takes a huge hit in its already insurmountable marketshare leads in a lot of the fields it makes its fist full of cash, it is still leading and winnning the game in the marketplace....


AMD in my opinion is the lead innovator in this section now, but until those morons and yes they are morons start spending money to advertise their great product they will continue to only peck very slowly at the marketshare lead of INtel.....Everyone I built an AMD machine for last year except my father-in-law had no clue who AMD was...Great work AMD!!! The masses don't know you from a maker of toilet paper!!!


AND TO ALL YOU AMD ZEALOTS HERE!!!

Amd certainly thanks you for always buying their cheapest chips and clocking the living crap out of them...They are thankful you are buying the chip they make the least amount of money on...IE bartons....If you love them so much buy their new line of chips and help them build up a coffer of moeny to advertise.

When Intel arrives with 64bit to the rest of the world (the masses) INtel will look like the bringer of 64 bit technology...I know that eats you amd boys up but you know it is true....


AMD wins around here!!!! AMD is still losing about everywhere else outside the tech forums.....Highly technical ppl make up a small precentage of computer buying ppl. BIY's make up a small amount, and since INtel dominants in prebuilt systems ad the number of manufacturers building prebuilt systems once again AMD great advances are basicaly unnoticed...

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Duvie
So then if this is the case does the prescott do better with HT??? I guess it is hard to determine since the penalty of the longer pipeline is so great we can't comparatively look at similar speed northwoods and prescotts.....

I remember reading articles stating that the Prescott does better with HT, but I do not have any record of it so I can't post a link. Didn't intel advertise some kind of "enhanced HyperThreading" with the prescott? I'm not sure but I think I heard something about that.

 

[SickBeast]

Out of curiousity, how do the sales of the Celeron chip compare to the total chip sales at AMD?

 

[Megatomic]

Originally posted by: Duvie
AND TO ALL YOU AMD ZEALOTS HERE!!!

Amd certainly thanks you for always buying their cheapest chips and clocking the living crap out of them...They are thankful you are buying the chip they make the least amount of money on...IE bartons....If you love them so much buy their new line of chips and help them build up a coffer of moeny to advertise.

Looking at your sig it would seem that the AMD zealots aren't the only group doing that. We all buy what we can afford. There's no shame in that.

 

[SickBeast]

Well, in all honesty, I *could* afford an Athlon 3200+, but since I can get the same or better from a $90 Barton Mobile, I do it that way. Sure it costs AMD money, but I'm definately not stealing from anyone.

Just because you drive your Honda Civic at 220km/h it doesn't mean you're a theif. A wreckless driver, maybe, but definately not a theif.

These are big companies guys, they can handle themselves. Besides, they have it fully within their power to eliminate overclocking altogether.

 

[whee]

Originally posted by: i82lazyboy

Originally posted by: VIAN
AMD is better.

I was wondering when they would get rid of that memory controller in the northbridge - it just makes sense. Anyway, Intel just kept coming with the raw power, although effective, mostly a marketing thing and a potential problem building up, which they have hit, releasing only a 200MHz speed bump in about a year.

The thing is tho, intel still has something insane like 80% market share, and I can't see this being deminished overnight. It would take years of AMD producing superior chips for less money than intel for their products to truly catch on. Heck, they're been doing that for the past few years since the Athlon was introduced, and they're barely taken a dent out of intel. There is the potential that the A64 will finally give them the respect they deserve, but the opinion of the vulgar masses continues to be that intel is the "brand name" for PC CPUs. It would be like someone inventing a new "Big Mac" sandwich, that was better than the original and cost half as much. It would take awhile for people to start buying and eating them. Sorry, that's the best analogy I could come up with at the moment.

All AMD needs is TV marketing. And once and if Dell signs on with AMD instead of Intel, Intel may well be considered heading for the fan.

Intel built their name up with the pentium commercials - remember the penitumII and the song2 by blur. AMD needs something like that.

Translation: I own AMD, now all I gotta do is try convince the rest of the world with my simplistic views. meh

Translation: I own Intel, I wish my "top of the line" CPU could perform as well as a $100 AMD CPU. Oh well, atleast my views aren't simplistic.