AMD/VIA cpu/mobo suggestions? g/f building a system. UPDATED

[randypj]

If you feel this is too pedestrian for your tastes, please don't bother with it.

I guess she got excited because she can actually use her Plextor burnproof. Anyway, she wants to try it on her own, and, I'm not close enough for handholding. She has never built a system, but, she has been a phone company tech, so she knows what a screwdriver is. Priorities, in order of importance:

1. Stability (this will be her business system. I may let her try overclocking, but I will keep her on a short leash....yes, she likes short leashes)
2. Compatibility using W98SE (Intel chipset/PIII cpu)
3. Ease of construction (good mobo manual)
4. Price.
5. Future compatibility to dualboot W98SE with W2K.

Mobo must be Intel chipset.
CPU must be Intel.

OK, this will be her main system, so it doesn't need to be exotic. She is not a gamer, so vid card just needs to take the load off the cpu....not give the best UT performance (she uses a P200 with 4MB vid card now, and may eventually give this up).

She needs suggestion on:

1. mobo/cpu combination
2. decently simple video card to take the load off the cpu.
3. PCI sound card (she rips and compiles .wav to cd).

I'm leaning toward BX chipset. My main is Asus P3B-F. Heck, I'm only running 366@550. Haven't gotten around to getting a slotket for my PIII 700 yet.

Problem is, I haven't kept up with cpus or mobos since I got my Asus which is slut 1. I'm guessing for simplicity, she would want to go with socket 370, so no slotket is needed? I'm thinking a mobo that will take PC100/133. I'm guessing that PIII/700 may still be at price/performance sweet spot without considering o/cing? Do we need to consider future P4 upgradability?

I'll supply her with 7200/66 WD or IBM, 128+ RAM, monitor, etc. Her IDE Plex will go in this system.

She and I thank you for any suggestions.
--Randy

 

[TwoFace]

randypj, since you've got your mind set on Intel I'd go for an Asus mobo... They always seems to come out fine, chipset would probably be 815 since that's the "top of the crop" from Intel at the moment, at least performance wise (without OC). CPU whatever she can afford (PIII / C2) just remember to go for FCPGA (I don't think the 815 comes in Slot1, but I could be wrong). Sound card, I'd go for the SB Live! Value (it might be called X-gamer or something now I'm not sure). Vid card, hmmm if she's gonna use it for 3d games at all I'd go for a GF2MX since they're quite cheap and perform like small monsters, but if it's 2d only consider something like a Matrox G200 as that should be more than enough for ordinary windows use.

Forget upgradability to P4, that ain't gonna happen. The P4 is a totally new architecture, and needs a new motherboard (chipset), powersupply and case! Not to mention it's (for now at least) lackluster performance

I just have to ask tho' have you checked the price, performance and stability/compatibility of the latest from AMD/VIA? A duron with MSI KT7 PRO2 is one heck of a combo, and will give you much better value (performance/$$$) and they don't show any signs of instability or incompatibility to me either in win98 or win2k (I've got four systems using durons in my home at the moment, linux, win98, 2xwin2k) all work like a charm... but it's your choice I just thought I should mention it.

Good luck

Two-Face

 

[The Rock]

I agree with Two Face and I recommend the Asus CUSL2 MB but get the version(CUSL2-C I think) w/o built-in video and audio. I also agree with his choice of the SoundBlaster Line of sound cards. I would recommend the Live MP3-5.1 model though since she is into "ripping" audio. The video card is where I would disagree with TF. Although for 2d only the Matrox is probably the way to go its 3D performance is lacking and I'll bet once she has a system of this power her "needs" might change! So my pick is the ATI Radeon 32mb DDR AGP video card. It goes for around $160-190 currently probably less at the end of the month! This card has great 2D and very good 3D but might be a little too expensive. If so, I would go with a VooDoo 3000 AGP which can be had for well under $100 ($60-90) and delivers great 2D and works well with a variety of games due to 3DFX's great support. I like the GeForce-Nvidia line of cards(I own one!)especially for gamers but their 2D performance, in my opinion is not up to the ATI and only slightly better than the VooDoo! Good Luck!

 

[TwoFace]

Yep, The Rock hit the nail on the head If she should find that she needs more vid card power and the 2d performance is paramount go for the Radeon.

I was too much in a hurry when finishing that piece Man I should learn not to write stuff when I have to be somewhere... oh well, I also forgot to mention if you don't want to OC you should go for at least a 100MHz CPU which rules out the C2, if you're sure you don't want to OC go for a CPU with 133MHz FSB, since the performance difference between one with 100 and one with 133MHz FSB is quite noticable.

I've probably forgotten something this time around too, but I can't come up with anything at the moment ...

Good luck!

Two-Face

 

[DaddyG]

Forget building her own. Dell has a solution just waiting for her. The price is difficult to beat as well. Knowing how to use a screwdriver and being able to build your own are very different.

 

[mariner]

Yeah, it may be easier and almost as cheap to buy preassembled systems (depending on how you get your software). But I say if she feels adventurous and has an experienced person to turn to (like randypj) then I applaud her gumption!! It beats having all that proprietary software tossed on your HDD and getting inferior hardware. Plus, she will become more familiar with how everything works and will be better off with the extra knowledge. I encourage everyone who is inclined to jump in and ask questions. Hey, that's what we're here for, isn't it?

Onward, Through The Fog!

 

[MGMorden]

And of course if one never tries to build a system then they're never going to learn how to. Everyone starts out inexperienced and the more system they build/upgrade/destroy , they better they get at it (hopefully not the destroy part, but you get the idea).

 

[StanG]

I also vote for Dell Outlet store...
You can pick up a Dimension 4100 system (fully upgradeable, not some integrated crap) for about the same as if you were building it. Up until now, I would build PCs for my friends and family, but not anymore. For example, the last PC I bought (about month ago) was following: PIII 800, 128MB, 40GB HDD 7200rpm, DVD drive, 8x4x32 CDRW, GF2 (GTSif I am not mistaken) 32 MB video, SB Live Value sound card, 56K modem, and the usual... Cost? ~$1200 including S&H and free Lexmark printer. Plus you get the 3 year warranty. At that time, I could have probably build the same system for about $100 less. But for what? Possible hours of headaches? Nope, thank you

 

[randypj]

Anyone know if there is a decent cloner in San Antonio, TX that might have the mobo/vid card, etc. in stock? I mean they are all over here in Dallas.

Sorry guys, it's gotta be Intel. I've sworn off AMD for now. Yeah, it may not be rational, but, neither were the crape, convoluted 4-in-1's. Kinda like if I build a pc for someone, and they put AOL on it, after I've told them not to, I won't touch it again. Same with an AMD for her. AND, I have made $$$'s on AMD stock and I thank them for that. Ain't competition great?

Thanks for the support of letting her build her own. I had told her she could. I installed the Plex back in October, and she watched and I think realized that it wasn't mysterious inside that box. She had even installed a DIMM previously, but hadn't quite gotten it locked down. I've gotta admit, it was hard to determine that it wasn't in fully. She really can handle mechanical stuff.....she was just kind of fearful since it was so mysterious inside. I won't leave her hanging, but it's not like I can just go over in the evening to help her either.

No compatibility problems with the 815 chipset?
It will take PC100 or PC133, eh?
And, as I recall, FCPGA is Socket 370? Flip Chip Pin Grid Array?

Yeah, definitely no built in video/audio.

Good call on the Soundblaster (sorry suckers ruined my Aureal soapboxing).

Good point about her needs changing. But, I'd kind of like to keep the vid card cheap for now, then explain how she can upgrade if she wants, so the ATI is a bit too high. Yeah, my main vid card is nvda and I have made good $$'s on trading nvda stock. BUT, of all the vid cards I've had, the 16MB Banshee PCI would setup on any mobo.

Thanks for the info about the P4. Yeah, if she wants to upgrade in the future, she can just build a new one and give this to a relative. See how little I've followed cpu's/mobos? I didn't even know P4 was totally different.

OK, I'm good with an Asus/815 chipset/FCPGA.

I'm guessing Asus has a 6PCI/AGP4X/4DIMM mobo that will handle 100/133 FSB and 100/133DIMMS? Any specific one that has been out for awhile (long enough to have had a rev. or two)? Heck, I could even give her one of my PIII/700's.
--Randy

 

[randypj]

NUTS....you guys hadda mention Dell. And, I bet she could wander up to Austin (only an hour or so away) and pick one up at the outlet store.

OK, I'll give her the thread and let her decide.

StanG, thanks for the pricing. I will have to show her this option. NUTS.
--Randy

 

[vi edit]

randy, check out AxionTech.

They have pretty good prices, and from my experience, their customer service is pretty good.

 

[The Rock]

Dell's the way to go if you really don't want to deal with the "hassles" of building your own. But if you're still gamed, get tha Asus MB (CUSL2-C), it has 6 pci incidentally, and the other components and consider the VooDoo 3000 AGP for your video card. The Banshee is fine(I have one in my wife's rig)but is not in the 3000's class for both 2D and 3D and can be had for a little more money. Good Luck!

 

[LXi]

<<1. mobo/cpu combination>>

P3-700E + MicroStar 815E Pro


<<2. decently simple video card to take the load off the cpu.>>

Does she need gaming capabilities? If not then the Matrox G450 is an excellent video card. Voodoo3 will do fine as well. For gaming, get a Radeon or V5.


<<3. PCI sound card (she rips and compiles .wav to cd).>>

SoundBlaster Live! MP3+5.1, or Santa Cruz, I heard that they're very good.

 

[Supradude]

get an Abit board for that intel chip!!!, Abit's manuals are so damn good!, you just read em and suddenly you know all about your motherboard and how to tweak it right... well, maybe not that extreme, but it is a very good manual and very straightforward... i've owned 3 Abit boards and have been erluctant to upgrade each time until i get the next one, which is always that much better!!! current board and suggestion: Abit SA6R

 

[mariner]

Sounds like you've had good luck with Abit Supradude. And you're right, definitely good manuals! I am running an Abit (BP6) as you know rpj. I also know that they had some serious QC problems in the late summer and Fall of '99. It was bad enough that some of the members here that bulid and sell for a living said they were reluctant to sell to the BP6 because of the high RMA rate - about 10% if I rememeber Russ correctly. Do they still have those problems? Has anyone installed an Abit this year and had unusuall problems? What are the RMA rates on Abit's compared to Asus, MSI, etc.? Any custom builders out there care to fill us in on those numbers?

Heck, I'm not even sure some of the troubles I am having aren't related to my mobo. But it is a darn good manual and the board has all the features I needed at the time. And that SoftMenu..... I think the BP6 is a Hall-of-Fame board if there ever was one.

 

[randypj]

NUTS...Abit, Asus....well, at least they start with A.

My family has (2) BE-6's and (1) BX-6, with no stability problems, but, mariner, I do remember the noted problems with the BP-6. I also have the Asus P3B-F.

We've had no problems with the three Abits. I got the Asus immediately when it came out. It was DOA. My Dad owed me a build, so he had it. He actually was able to talk to someone with Asus to confirm that it could be RMA'd to Asus. Worked out quite well. I'm not afraid of either. However, rather than go with the Highpoint/66, I think I'd rather go with a Promise card in one of the 6 PCI slots on an Asus.
--Randy

 

[mariner]

HighPoint/66 controller:|

Man I had real problems with my IBM Deskstar after using the 66 header on my BP6. Ended up solving the problem after a 100+ post thread in the technical forum! Turns out I had to zero fill and then repart. Never was sure what was going on but didn't have the problem until I used the onboard 66 controller and then tried to go back to the 33's. Haven't used it since.

I think the promise controllers were used by many folks successfully. BeOS even worked on the promise.

 

[randypj]

OK, I just happened to see the link on Anand front page to the i815e shootout. Hardwareoc i815e shootout

I made the mistake of reading it. I can't quite figure out why someone would want to buy a fairly full featured mobo with onboard vid and sound. Yeah, I guess you save some $$$'s, and it might be just the ticket for my g/f. So, if she were to get either this Abit or Asus, would she be able to disable the onboard vid/sound (well, the Asus didn't have onboard sound)? I guess it could save substantially for her now. But, I'd really only want her to go this way if she could disable them and add cards in later.

So, is there a better iteration of the 815 chipset? Actually, I doubt if she will ever be a gamer. I could see her going (eventually) with DVD and sound and hooking into her home system. So, she could then get a dedicated card for video.

I really think it's the Highpoint controllers that scare me away from Abit.
--Randy

 

[LXi]

<<I made the mistake of reading it. I can't quite figure out why someone would want to buy a fairly full featured mobo with onboard vid and sound. Yeah, I guess you save some $$$'s, and it might be just the ticket for my g/f. So, if she were to get either this Abit or Asus, would she be able to disable the onboard vid/sound (well, the Asus didn't have onboard sound)? I guess it could save substantially for her now. But, I'd really only want her to go this way if she could disable them and add cards in later.>>

Oh you can disable them easily, I believe the Asus has onboard sound as well. Once you plug in the graphic card of your own the onboard video will automatically disable.


<<So, is there a better iteration of the 815 chipset? Actually, I doubt if she will ever be a gamer. I could see her going (eventually) with DVD and sound and hooking into her home system. So, she could then get a dedicated card for video.>>

I dont think there is, maybe the i815EP chipset, its the same as i815E except it doesnt have onboard video. It claims to be much cheaper but it doesnt really seem that way. If she's going DVD, she's going to need a good soundcard, which shouldnt be a problem at all. As for gaming, if she's not interested then I think the i815 graphics will be enough, you can always try them out before shelling out money for a new graphic card. I would also like to suggest the MicroStar i815E board, its currently the cheapest i815E($97~$103), and its just as good as the Asus board.

 

[randypj]

LXi--thanks. I thought I had heard years ago, of course, that some onboard vid/sound couldn't be disabled correctly. I've never seen a MicroStar manual. Would you think it would be sufficient for a new builder? I will give her links/printouts for building. Best case would be that the manual would be very explicit about FSB settings and such, show nicely labeled diagrams, and be accurate (unlike FIC). I'm assuming the MicroStar has SoftBIOS?

Also, per your suggestion, I just happen to have an P3700e from way back when they first came out and I got sucha deal, that I could be persuaded to give up to her.
Thanks
--Randy

 

[randypj]

OK...OK...OK....

Darn, someone (me) sent her a listing of PIII systems so she could compare prices against Dell Outlet and building her own. I swear, I didn't figure she would look at the Tbird prices. DOH.

So, now she knows about the Tbird, and, of course, likes the prices. Problem is, I don't know about it. I just like the prices. And, if I was building a system myself, it would probably be Tbird.

Keeping in mind stability/compatibility, do you have mobo/cpu speed suggestions for this? She's really serious about this stuff. For her, the Dell systems that are a decent enough value, just don't have the expandability. The expandable ones are too much.....

Do you use PC133 RAM with TBird?
Is it just VIA that has a decent chipset?
Still 4-in-1 crape?

Why did I ever send her that comparison?

I hope to be in San Antonio in a few days, and take a look and see what local cloners have for mobo/cpu's, if you guys give me some suggestions. Thanks.
--Randy

 

[randypj]

OK, let me rephrase. I just looked again. Dell Outlet does have some decent deals. But, a good 4100 system is a bit more than she needs, and, cripes....the Dimension L only has one 5-1/4 external bay. So, I can see why she still wants to look at building her own. It seems like she has a good handle on things.....just like us, she wants power, reliability....for cheap.

Well, at least she has a good burner. LOL...building a system around a Plextor burner. Who'd a thunk it?

Any problem using a Plex 12x10x32 as her only cd-rom device? I know it used to be a no-no, but, is it still? I mean, I'd never do it, but, it's not like she's gonna burn a couple thousand cd-r's in '01. Or, is a heavy duty gamer.
--Randy

 

[The Rock]

I don't really see a problem with &quot;only&quot; the Plextor as your only cd/cd-r drive. Now on your friend building her own system as opposed to buying OEM I'd say go ahead! She will never get expandability from an OEM without paying a premium for it and I'm sure you know why! You can use PC133 ram and I would recommend tha you use the &quot;best&quot; ram you can afford. The early Athlon MB's needed fast and stable ram to run their best but that is less true of the latest MB's. As of this writing if you are going to build a Thunderbird/Duron system, the Via chipset,in particular the KT133 with the 686B southbridge chip, is the way to go. The 4.26 4in1 drivers work very well so don't hesitate to use them! There are many articles and posts regarding Thunderbird/Duron chips with KT133 MB's. Take some time to read them I'm sure they will help you! Good Luck!

 

[randypj]

The Rock--Thanks for the info on stability of current VIA. Before I read your post, I read a Tbird mobo review in Maximum PC November issue (hey, I'm only 2 months behind). They compared the Asus A7V, Tyan Trinity KT, and MSI K7T Pro. All seem decent. I think I'd recommend she go with the MSI or Asus.

Good point about the RAM. Prolly Crucial PC133?

OK, I can figure the best value for a straight-up Tbird, but, if she wants to try her hand at overclocking, has anyone researched the cost/oc performance? I mean I know for Cel it was 300 and 366, and for PIII it was the 700. Sweet spot for Tbird? And, do any of these require whatever that goldfinger thing is? You can see, I have no idea.

I'm assuming y'all will be here to help &quot;us&quot; with problems we run into?
--Randy

 

[LXi]

Going with MSI 815E Pro is probably the best route, I would recommend getting the Kingmax PC150 128MB for just $72, they're a brand name manufacturer that makes quality RAMs.