AMD to sell millions of GPU's.

[imported_thefonz]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: thefonz

Originally posted by: Matt2

The company is getting the 65nm part on line as soon as possible, as this will enable savings in power well within the 60-100 Watt range, depending on what part are we talking about.

So R600 is going to be another R520? People are going to pay high end prices to have their investment replaced in 90 days? Customer centric my ass...

Video cards are an investment? :shocked:

They are, they are considerably expensive, and the customer rightfully expects a decent usable lifespan during which they experience the advertised capabilities.

Are you kidding me?
An investment is where you make money, like real estate or retirement funds.
This is a consumer good, it depreciates in value. If you get pissed that a better card comes out 3-6 months later, your just asking for stress and being unrealistic. You should not be buying products, or anything, with that kind of mindset.

Cars are expensive too, do you sell them for more then you bought it for? cause I would love to meet that sucker, i have a bridge to sell him.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: thefonz

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: thefonz

Originally posted by: Matt2

The company is getting the 65nm part on line as soon as possible, as this will enable savings in power well within the 60-100 Watt range, depending on what part are we talking about.

So R600 is going to be another R520? People are going to pay high end prices to have their investment replaced in 90 days? Customer centric my ass...

Video cards are an investment? :shocked:

They are, they are considerably expensive, and the customer rightfully expects a decent usable lifespan during which they experience the advertised capabilities.

Are you kidding me?
An investment is where you make money, like real estate or retirement funds.
This is a consumer good, it depreciates in value. If you get pissed that a better card comes out 3-6 months later, your just asking for stress and being unrealistic. You should not be buying products, or anything, with that kind of mindset.

Cars are expensive too, do you sell them for more then you bought it for? cause I would love to meet that sucker, i have a bridge to sell him.

The word investment does not necessarily entail monetary profit. All it entails is that it costs you something to aquire, something tangible, in this case, money. And generally you expect something for your investment, and in the case of any consumer goods, as you accurately put it, is payback in the way of satisfaction that the product performs as advertised and expected.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/investment

4. something that is invested; sum invested.
5. the act or fact of investing or state of being invested, as with a garment.

 

[slash196]

Originally posted by: thefonz

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: thefonz

Originally posted by: Matt2

The company is getting the 65nm part on line as soon as possible, as this will enable savings in power well within the 60-100 Watt range, depending on what part are we talking about.

So R600 is going to be another R520? People are going to pay high end prices to have their investment replaced in 90 days? Customer centric my ass...

Video cards are an investment? :shocked:

They are, they are considerably expensive, and the customer rightfully expects a decent usable lifespan during which they experience the advertised capabilities.

Are you kidding me?
An investment is where you make money, like real estate or retirement funds.
This is a consumer good, it depreciates in value. If you get pissed that a better card comes out 3-6 months later, your just asking for stress and being unrealistic. You should not be buying products, or anything, with that kind of mindset.

Cars are expensive too, do you sell them for more then you bought it for? cause I would love to meet that sucker, i have a bridge to sell him.

Video cards are an investment, but one that yields entertainment, not money. He was speaking broadly and I'm amazed that it still went over a few heads.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: slash196

Originally posted by: thefonz

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: thefonz

Originally posted by: Matt2

The company is getting the 65nm part on line as soon as possible, as this will enable savings in power well within the 60-100 Watt range, depending on what part are we talking about.

So R600 is going to be another R520? People are going to pay high end prices to have their investment replaced in 90 days? Customer centric my ass...

Video cards are an investment? :shocked:

They are, they are considerably expensive, and the customer rightfully expects a decent usable lifespan during which they experience the advertised capabilities.

Are you kidding me?
An investment is where you make money, like real estate or retirement funds.
This is a consumer good, it depreciates in value. If you get pissed that a better card comes out 3-6 months later, your just asking for stress and being unrealistic. You should not be buying products, or anything, with that kind of mindset.

Cars are expensive too, do you sell them for more then you bought it for? cause I would love to meet that sucker, i have a bridge to sell him.

Video cards are an investment, but one that yields entertainment, not money. He was speaking broadly and I'm amazed that it still went over a few heads.

Precisely, thanks

 

[5150Joker]

OEM is where the money is and if AMD is selling millions of R600 cards to Dell and other builders then props to them.

 

[imported_thefonz]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: thefonz

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: thefonz

Originally posted by: Matt2

The company is getting the 65nm part on line as soon as possible, as this will enable savings in power well within the 60-100 Watt range, depending on what part are we talking about.

So R600 is going to be another R520? People are going to pay high end prices to have their investment replaced in 90 days? Customer centric my ass...

Video cards are an investment? :shocked:

They are, they are considerably expensive, and the customer rightfully expects a decent usable lifespan during which they experience the advertised capabilities.

Are you kidding me?
An investment is where you make money, like real estate or retirement funds.
This is a consumer good, it depreciates in value. If you get pissed that a better card comes out 3-6 months later, your just asking for stress and being unrealistic. You should not be buying products, or anything, with that kind of mindset.

Cars are expensive too, do you sell them for more then you bought it for? cause I would love to meet that sucker, i have a bridge to sell him.

The word investment does not necessarily entail monetary profit. All it entails is that it costs you something to aquire, something tangible, in this case, money. And generally you expect something for your investment, and in the case of any consumer goods, as you accurately put it, is payback in the way of satisfaction that the product performs as advertised and expected.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/investment

4. something that is invested; sum invested.
5. the act or fact of investing or state of being invested, as with a garment.

Right on, I'll agree to that. Satisfaction is a person matter, if you not happy with the performance, you can always buy the best of the best, but to judge satisfaction on a video card on the length of you being able to play the newest vid games is absolutely ridiculous IMO

Does AMD or nVidia advertise that there video cards will be top of the line for a certain amount of time, or their "usable life" as you put it?

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: thefonz

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: thefonz

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: thefonz

Originally posted by: Matt2

The company is getting the 65nm part on line as soon as possible, as this will enable savings in power well within the 60-100 Watt range, depending on what part are we talking about.

So R600 is going to be another R520? People are going to pay high end prices to have their investment replaced in 90 days? Customer centric my ass...

Video cards are an investment? :shocked:

They are, they are considerably expensive, and the customer rightfully expects a decent usable lifespan during which they experience the advertised capabilities.

Are you kidding me?
An investment is where you make money, like real estate or retirement funds.
This is a consumer good, it depreciates in value. If you get pissed that a better card comes out 3-6 months later, your just asking for stress and being unrealistic. You should not be buying products, or anything, with that kind of mindset.

Cars are expensive too, do you sell them for more then you bought it for? cause I would love to meet that sucker, i have a bridge to sell him.

The word investment does not necessarily entail monetary profit. All it entails is that it costs you something to aquire, something tangible, in this case, money. And generally you expect something for your investment, and in the case of any consumer goods, as you accurately put it, is payback in the way of satisfaction that the product performs as advertised and expected.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/investment

4. something that is invested; sum invested.
5. the act or fact of investing or state of being invested, as with a garment.

Right on, I'll agree to that. Satisfaction is a person matter, if you not happy with the performance, you can always buy the best of the best, but to judge satisfaction on a video card on the length of you being able to play the newest vid games is absolutely ridiculous IMO

Does AMD or nVidia advertise that there video cards will be top of the line for a certain amount of time, or their "usable life" as you put it?

I think they do by inference, if not in verbatim. I think expecting something to stay top of the line for very long in any capacity is unrealistic at best.

I take a more pragmatic approach .. if :

(A)- The product does what you want it to do
(B)- The product doesn't fail within an unreasonably short period of time
(C)- The product is usable for the intended purpose for a reasonable period of time
(D)- The product is priced competitively and affordably for your budget and needs

Then it is a success These are all quantifiable primarily by the customer as an individual, as that is the final axiom that defines his/her satisfaction.

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: Zstream
Dell to buy milltions of GPU's

AMD to cut price on R600 and own Nvidia

Nice few reads.

[SNORT] The S3 Virge series of video cards and Cyrix branded CPU's sold millions in the past too. Didn't mean they were worth more than a pinch of sh!t... [/SNORT]

BTW I loved the picture in the aricle - is the R6xx series military rated or something? Aluminium baseplate -- what next?!? This thing has escaped from the research lab of a mad WW2 nazi scientist if its physical characteristics are anything to go by.

 

[GEOrifle]

Anyway is good to hear thise kind of things, now INTEL and nVidia will drope prices more
lower.
Man , i like price wars.
Thise is good , concurents in BUSSINESS---concurents in Life.

 

[thilanliyan]

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: thefonz
Cars are expensive too, do you sell them for more then you bought it for? cause I would love to meet that sucker, i have a bridge to sell him.

This is not always the case. I once sold a used car for more money (+20%) than what I had bought it for because it was somewhat popular at the time.

And my previous video card was a 7900GTO and I sold it for $50 more than what I had bought it for. Of course I knew that the card wouldn't depreciate much because they were difficult to find.

Products CAN be investments if you choose them correctly. I do agree though that most of the time this is not true.

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
BTW I loved the picture in the aricle - is the R6xx series military rated or something? Aluminium baseplate -- what next?!? This thing has escaped from the research lab of a mad WW2 nazi scientist if its physical characteristics are anything to go by.

It looks like it provides additional cooling to the memory chips since there are thermal pads on them. Not a bad thing in my opinion.

 

[Gstanfor]

What's wrong with the aluminum baseplate?? It cools the memory while the copper part cools the core. This is exactly how my X1800XL worked.

It's ridiculously over engineered. The memory should need nothing more than some heatpipes going up to the main copper heatsink. (edit: you changed your post thilan)

I saw over @ B3D that R600 will be dissipating 230 watts of heat. Oh well, I guess AMD customers won't need to run their heaters while-ever they own this thing (they may run their poor air conditioner into the ground in summer though).

 

[Gstanfor]

some pictures courtesy of nvnews and pcinlife.com The only question (for me) is, in the first image, which object is the monster?

http://we.pcinlife.com/attachments/foru...2_44ceef5fb0a033bdd2b0Cu4PKl4txIpF.jpg
http://img.album.pchome.net/00/77/03/51/4fe986dcd47ba6afe2517393f36002ac.jpg
http://img.album.pchome.net/00/77/03/51/46ec98ff181d5966f840fdd78af7885a.jpg
http://img.album.pchome.net/00/77/03/51/451d1fe051f9934b0c5c709f5cf75d0a.jpg
http://img.album.pchome.net/00/77/03/51/a33172abda330d541b367d650cbf3033.jpg
http://img.album.pchome.net/00/77/03/51/f26ed96969bbedb2c9ba77635bdfffc0.jpg
http://img.album.pchome.net/00/77/03/51/7b5e12008c0d8d49c52620f6b22af8a2.jpg
http://img.album.pchome.net/00/77/03/51/46bd68a2022dfba1325135909cada7f1.jpg
http://img.album.pchome.net/00/77/03/51/5a3572f8a328047f6987f09639b7596f.jpg
http://img.album.pchome.net/00/77/03/51/d4b9017308be04d72bfebeda1e31444c.jpg
http://img.album.pchome.net/00/77/03/51/90a674c87b042c71fc02f43ec173224e.jpg
http://img.album.pchome.net/00/77/03/51/0601ef24713c778f8869234c6efc3a1f.jpg
http://img.album.pchome.net/00/77/03/51/e5ebb7d370ab965b4b312a46d11573d9.jpg
http://img.album.pchome.net/00/77/03/51/0abe389533528481121b9cac1dda0f4f.jpg
http://img.album.pchome.net/00/77/03/51/50ef2ea92c5d66e57ed15d278c955c7e.jpg

 

[Matt2]

The thing to remember is that AMD undercutting the current high end by $150 is something we should not be surprised at.

They're not doing it because they are kind and good hearted. They're doing it to catch Nvidia in the number of boards they sell. They're so late to the table that Nvidia has swooped up a good portion of the sales at the high end already and we have yet to even see a benchmark of R600.

This is no different than when ATI was first to the market with R580. ATI had a couple of months of selling R580 in the $550-$650 price range and when Nvidia finally got G71 to the masses one could buy a 7900GTX at $479 on launch day. The difference is that I have to believe G71 was cheaper to produce than R600 by a long shot. Nvidia was still able to achieve a good margin introducing their cards at $479, but I doubt AMD is going to make a lot of money in the high end segment with R600 at such a low price.

There's nothing stopping Nvidia from slashing prices and undercutting AMD's offering at the high end segment because they've sold enough units at the premium price to be able to do so. So unless R600 substantially outperforms 8800GTX and is still a lower price than 8800GTX, I dont even view this as a victory for AMD.

 

[TanisHalfElven]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: slash196

Originally posted by: thefonz

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: thefonz

Originally posted by: Matt2

The company is getting the 65nm part on line as soon as possible, as this will enable savings in power well within the 60-100 Watt range, depending on what part are we talking about.

So R600 is going to be another R520? People are going to pay high end prices to have their investment replaced in 90 days? Customer centric my ass...

Video cards are an investment? :shocked:

They are, they are considerably expensive, and the customer rightfully expects a decent usable lifespan during which they experience the advertised capabilities.

Are you kidding me?
An investment is where you make money, like real estate or retirement funds.
This is a consumer good, it depreciates in value. If you get pissed that a better card comes out 3-6 months later, your just asking for stress and being unrealistic. You should not be buying products, or anything, with that kind of mindset.

Cars are expensive too, do you sell them for more then you bought it for? cause I would love to meet that sucker, i have a bridge to sell him.

Video cards are an investment, but one that yields entertainment, not money. He was speaking broadly and I'm amazed that it still went over a few heads.

Precisely, thanks

in that case only way to actaully get a resonable liofespan out of them is to bomb nvidia and ati.

 

[Gstanfor]

God, I swear ATi are the biggest idea thieves I've ever come across. They've gone and stolen the SLI header fingers to try and get backfire working now also.

backfire fingers
Text

I'm going to love to see them explain how backfire is so superior to the competition that they felt compelled to steal the competitors long established ideas (after running out of their own apparently...)

 

[dreddfunk]

Matt2 - I think you're right but the g80 is also a big chip that almost certainly costs a lot to produce. Without knowing the actual details of each firm's investment, it's hard to really say just how much profit AMD will leave on the table with such a move, or just how much nVidia has already made and how much they will lose in order to price-match.

Truthfully, lowering the price in order to catch up in sales at the expense of a bit of profitability strikes me as a smart move for a couple of reasons: it will help card sales even if the benchmarks don't put it much ahead of the 8800 (which seems likely), and it seems an appropriate way to gain a bit of goodwill back in the enthusiast community after so many delays.

I'm certainly not arguing that this is a 'win' for AMD. I just happen to think the 'loss' happened a while back (when they couldn't launch R600 around the time of the G80). Playing catch-up never looks good but you have to do it. I think folks would be screaming bloody murder if AMD released R600 this late, with only a 10% performance improvement over the 8800, and also with a $600 price tag. That seems to be a far worse decision.

I think this is just an acceptance of the fact that they've got ground to make up and need to make concessions in order to do so. I don't see anything wrong with that, just as I didn't see anything wrong with nVidia not really lowering the prices on their cards in absence of serious competition.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor

What's wrong with the aluminum baseplate?? It cools the memory while the copper part cools the core. This is exactly how my X1800XL worked.

It's ridiculously over engineered. The memory should need nothing more than some heatpipes going up to the main copper heatsink. (edit: you changed your post thilan)

Yeah I changed my post because I didn't know you meant the aluminum plate at the back of the card...I thought it was the red aluminum insert/plate you were talking about. The 8800GTX cooler is the same way...a main aluminum part cooling the ram with a copper insert cooling the core, albeit without the plate on the back. However, I think that plate may be only there on that OEM version because there is a cutout for the fan that is hung off the back of the card.

IF the retail cooler is shorter without the fan hanging off the back, then it probably wouldn't need the backplate, UNLESS there is actually a memory chip surface on the BACK of the card.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
God, I swear ATi are the biggest idea thieves I've ever come across. They've gone and stolen the SLI header fingers to try and get backfire working now also.

Wasn't 3DFX the first to come up with that idea??

Like in this pic?? There are 2 cards there if you look carefully, connected by what appears to be a floppy cable.

Granted NVidia bought 3DFX but still...it's not like this type of interconnect wasn't there before.

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: Gstanfor

What's wrong with the aluminum baseplate?? It cools the memory while the copper part cools the core. This is exactly how my X1800XL worked.

It's ridiculously over engineered. The memory should need nothing more than some heatpipes going up to the main copper heatsink. (edit: you changed your post thilan)

Yeah I changed my post because I didn't know you meant the aluminum plate at the back of the card...I thought it was the red aluminum insert/plate you were talking about. The 8800GTX cooler is the same way...a main aluminum part cooling the ram with a copper insert cooling the core, albeit without the plate on the back. However, I think that plate may be only there on that OEM version because there is a cutout for the fan that is hung off the back of the card.

IF the retail cooler is shorter without the fan hanging off the back, then it probably wouldn't need the backplate, UNLESS there is actually a memory chip surface on the BACK of the card.

G80 has nothing that remotely resembles this

 

[Matt2]

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
God, I swear ATi are the biggest idea thieves I've ever come across. They've gone and stolen the SLI header fingers to try and get backfire working now also.

Wasn't 3DFX the first to come up with that idea??

Like in this pic?? There are 2 cards there if you look carefully, connected by what appears to be a floppy cable.

Granted NVidia bought 3DFX but still...it's not like this type of interconnect wasn't there before.

It's similar to Nvidia's design but only because of it's place on the card. That interface is nothing like the fingers Nvidia and now AMD uses.

 

[dreddfunk]

"idea thieves" hmmm.... AMD/ATI isn't the first firm to come to my mind here.

I don't agree with your take on things there Gstanfor, but it's yours to have. I think all good competitors learn from their competition. I think those that don't probably don't stay in business long. If somebody else is doing something that works, learn from it.

I think you've set up an argument that ATI loses both ways. If ATI doesn't learn from nVidia you can just point to the fact that ATI is behind and refuses to learn from the successes of their competitor. If ATI does learn and starts to copy any of nVidia's practices, then it's 'theft' and proof of their own inadequacy.

Why do that?

 

[Matt2]

Originally posted by: dreddfunk
Matt2 - I think you're right but the g80 is also a big chip that almost certainly costs a lot to produce. Without knowing the actual details of each firm's investment, it's hard to really say just how much profit AMD will leave on the table with such a move, or just how much nVidia has already made and how much they will lose in order to price-match.

Truthfully, lowering the price in order to catch up in sales at the expense of a bit of profitability strikes me as a smart move for a couple of reasons: it will help card sales even if the benchmarks don't put it much ahead of the 8800 (which seems likely), and it seems an appropriate way to gain a bit of goodwill back in the enthusiast community after so many delays.

I'm certainly not arguing that this is a 'win' for AMD. I just happen to think the 'loss' happened a while back (when they couldn't launch R600 around the time of the G80). Playing catch-up never looks good but you have to do it. I think folks would be screaming bloody murder if AMD released R600 this late, with only a 10% performance improvement over the 8800, and also with a $600 price tag. That seems to be a far worse decision.

I think this is just an acceptance of the fact that they've got ground to make up and need to make concessions in order to do so. I don't see anything wrong with that, just as I didn't see anything wrong with nVidia not really lowering the prices on their cards in absence of serious competition.

Agreed. This is what I was trying to say, but you wrote it far more eloquently.

I love how we're all taking this for fact when it comes from the stINQ and fudzilla. LOL.

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
God, I swear ATi are the biggest idea thieves I've ever come across. They've gone and stolen the SLI header fingers to try and get backfire working now also.

Wasn't 3DFX the first to come up with that idea??

Like in this pic?? There are 2 cards there if you look carefully, connected by what appears to be a floppy cable.

Granted NVidia bought 3DFX but still...it's not like this type of interconnect wasn't there before.

the 3dfx version looks (and acts) nothing like what nvidia uses - it transferred analog scalines across, not digital data. ATi couldn't even be bothered making their conenctor look different to what nvidia uses (and they include two to match G80).

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
G80 has nothing that remotely resembles this

Look at this pic of the 8800GTX cooler. You see the copper insert under the TIM...same idea as your pic.

Here's another pic.