AMD surges because bitcoin data miners need its graphics card

[hal2kilo]

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/06/amd-surges-because-bitcoin-miners-need-its-graphics-cards.html

I'm really confused. How is this connected to bitcoin demand or data mining in general?

 

[sandorski]

It's not Bitcoin directly, it's other crypto-currencies.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/06/amd-surges-because-bitcoin-miners-need-its-graphics-cards.html

I'm really confused. How is this connected to bitcoin demand or data mining in general?

Until very recently (last 9mos or so) AMD cards were vastly superior to NV cards for mining, as a result there's a bit of a baked-in culture for only mining on AMD. Since BTC prices/prospects have been going through the roof, everyone's scrambling for more 4xx and 5xx NV cards.

EDIT: and yeah, to clarify, what sandorski said. It's more of the 'cryptocurrency ecosystem' surging, beyond BTC specifically. Everyone's on a rising tide right now.

 

[DisarmedDespot]

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/06/amd-surges-because-bitcoin-miners-need-its-graphics-cards.html

I'm really confused. How is this connected to bitcoin demand or data mining in general?

Bitcoin hasn't seen a real increase in demand for itself. It's all the altcoins like Ethereum. They're rising like mad, and the easiest way to buy the stuff is through bitcoin. Frankly, I don't see how this isn't a libertarian funny money bubble. Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are still limited to four use cases: speculation, buying drugs, buying child pornography and ransomware. It's just the suckers that have been in late are trying to sell their coins to new suckers for more than they bought it for.

Gotta admit, it's tempting to sell my RX 480 for $275+, but there's a good chance the supplies of Vega will get sucked up as well.

 

[hal2kilo]

Until very recently (last 9mos or so) AMD cards were vastly superior to NV cards for mining, as a result there's a bit of a baked-in culture for only mining on AMD. Since BTC prices/prospects have been going through the roof, everyone's scrambling for more 4xx and 5xx NV cards.

EDIT: and yeah, to clarify, what sandorski said. It's more of the 'cryptocurrency ecosystem' surging, beyond BTC specifically. Everyone's on a rising tide right now.

So they are using the GPUs more for processing data than displaying data?

 

[tential]

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/06/amd-surges-because-bitcoin-miners-need-its-graphics-cards.html

I'm really confused. How is this connected to bitcoin demand or data mining in general?

You're assuming investors and the media don't do stupid things....

 

[gorobei]

So they are using the GPUs more for processing data than displaying data?

i dont think you understand how the cryptography works. you may want to read a wiki.

the bulk of the spike/increasing market capitalization is from more conventional finance sectors getting on the block chain paradigm (raising confidence in the coin systems) and from fear and uncertainty with the chinese govt and probably the us govt(trump).

the crypto currencies are a way to park assets/cash in a system not directly controlled/audited by governments. the first btc spike to $1000 was in response to china currency rules changes. when the panic settled down so did the price.

 

[SPBHM]

used market will be interesting if soon profitability drops to much

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

So they are using the GPUs more for processing data than displaying data?

Ah, yeah, as Gorobei said you should probably wiki this up. Short answer is yes, GPU processing 'datasets' to obtain a relatively largely accepted currency which is exchangeable for more widely accepted currency, such as USD. There's a lot more nuance than that though, so don't take it at face value.

 

[at80eighty]

Bitcoin hasn't seen a real increase in demand for itself. It's all the altcoins like Ethereum. They're rising like mad, and the easiest way to buy the stuff is through bitcoin. Frankly, I don't see how this isn't a libertarian funny money bubble. Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are still limited to four use cases: speculation, buying drugs, buying child pornography and ransomware. It's just the suckers that have been in late are trying to sell their coins to new suckers for more than they bought it for.

Gotta admit, it's tempting to sell my RX 480 for $275+, but there's a good chance the supplies of Vega will get sucked up as well.

you live in a laughable bubble. an entire industry (Fintech) has sprung from cryptocurrencies. related to which, plenty of other industries are actively towards using blockchain to tap into the cc world

 

[frozentundra123456]

Really surprised the governments havent stepped in to stop this, or at least try. Seems like it is basically "printing" money tax free.
In any case, the articles I have read attribute the big price jump to the announcement from Apple of a powerful Vega gpu in the new Mac Pro.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Really surprised the governments havent stepped in to stop this, or at least try. Seems like it is basically "printing" money tax free.
In any case, the articles I have read attribute the big price jump to the announcement from Apple of a powerful Vega gpu in the new Mac Pro.

It isn't tax free, you're required to claim it (assuming we're talking about the US at least). In addition, the IRS recently required Coinbase (one of the larger exchanges) to hand over info on users, presumably to do audits on the whales not claiming things properly...
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...-to-handover-years-worth-of-user-data-to-irs/
..In addition, Coinbase itself has info provided on how to properly claim BTC mining on your taxes, as well...
https://support.coinbase.com/customer/portal/articles/1496488-how-do-i-report-taxes-
...Which is based on the IRS' info on how to claim virtual currency....
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf

It's 'printing free money' in the same way that mining stuff out of the ground is 'printing free money' (some kind of work input to some kind of reward output). By definition, it's a limited resource which will eventually be unable to be 'mined', at which point the currency will simply exist at whatever value deemed appropriate by those who wish to use it/grant it value.

And no, nobody's pushing up the value of cryptocurrency based on *anything* Apple is announcing.

 

[Guru]

Bitcoin hasn't seen a real increase in demand for itself. It's all the altcoins like Ethereum. They're rising like mad, and the easiest way to buy the stuff is through bitcoin. Frankly, I don't see how this isn't a libertarian funny money bubble. Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are still limited to four use cases: speculation, buying drugs, buying child pornography and ransomware. It's just the suckers that have been in late are trying to sell their coins to new suckers for more than they bought it for.

Gotta admit, it's tempting to sell my RX 480 for $275+, but there's a good chance the supplies of Vega will get sucked up as well.

What you listed there is actually extremely popular, in fact in the tens of millions, heck probably just drugs in the tens of millions taking just North America in account let alone globally. You add in weapons, child porn, malware, hack tools, etc... you add in tens and tens of millions more customers and that is purely from crypto currency.

But there are other uses for bitcoin for example, I think its unfair to pain everyone as either a druggie or perdophile if they use or mine bitcoin. Steam for example uses bitcoin one of the biggest games platform, there tons of web stores who do take in bitcoin as a form of payment. Website hosting, website development.

 

[DisarmedDespot]

What you listed there is actually extremely popular, in fact in the tens of millions, heck probably just drugs in the tens of millions taking just North America in account let alone globally. You add in weapons, child porn, malware, hack tools, etc... you add in tens and tens of millions more customers and that is purely from crypto currency.

But there are other uses for bitcoin for example, I think its unfair to pain everyone as either a druggie or perdophile if they use or mine bitcoin. Steam for example uses bitcoin one of the biggest games platform, there tons of web stores who do take in bitcoin as a form of payment. Website hosting, website development.

Oh, I'm not saying that. That's why I put speculation first. But that still doesn't really change my point. Even the example of business taking bitcoin really isn't a use case. Steam doesn't touch the bitcoins, they have a third party convert it to USD that they can actually use. Most of the other stores are the exact same way. You're just going local currency -> Bitcoin -> local currency, and with the high transaction fees you aren't saving any money. There's only a handful of places I can think of that actually use bitcoin, and that's either companies run by loons (like overstock.com, whose CEO is a libertarian nutcase) or garbage services (like openbazaar, a crap ebay where you need to run your own server). The last killer app I was hearing about (smart contracts) died in an absolutely fantastic manner (the DAO).

 

[frozentundra123456]

It isn't tax free, you're required to claim it (assuming we're talking about the US at least). In addition, the IRS recently required Coinbase (one of the larger exchanges) to hand over info on users, presumably to do audits on the whales not claiming things properly...
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...-to-handover-years-worth-of-user-data-to-irs/
..In addition, Coinbase itself has info provided on how to properly claim BTC mining on your taxes, as well...
https://support.coinbase.com/customer/portal/articles/1496488-how-do-i-report-taxes-
...Which is based on the IRS' info on how to claim virtual currency....
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf

It's 'printing free money' in the same way that mining stuff out of the ground is 'printing free money' (some kind of work input to some kind of reward output). By definition, it's a limited resource which will eventually be unable to be 'mined', at which point the currency will simply exist at whatever value deemed appropriate by those who wish to use it/grant it value.

And no, nobody's pushing up the value of cryptocurrency based on *anything* Apple is announcing.

I never said cryptocurrency was in any way related to Apple. What I said was that the article I read stated the big jump in AMD stock was related to the announcement by Apple that the Mac Pro was using Vega. Don't have time to link the source, but there was a headline about it on the front page of Yahoo.

 

[Yakk]

In many countries if you think coins are tax free money you'll be in for a rude awakening... Maybe not right away, but eventually the government catches up after you convert it back to a fiat currency. Most exchanges are monitored in one form or another.

 

[R0H1T]

Really surprised the governments havent stepped in to stop this, or at least try. Seems like it is basically "printing" money tax free.
In any case, the articles I have read attribute the big price jump to the announcement from Apple of a powerful Vega gpu in the new Mac Pro.

Tell that to the miners on this or any other forum. Basically any mention of crypto money being tied to something something shady sends them into a tizzy

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

In many countries if you think coins are tax free money you'll be in for a rude awakening... Maybe not right away, but eventually the government catches up after you convert it back to a fiat currency. Most exchanges are monitored in one form or another.

In the US at least it's considered taxable at time of earning, I think they also tax if you convert it to USD as well.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I never said cryptocurrency was in any way related to Apple. What I said was that the article I read stated the big jump in AMD stock was related to the announcement by Apple that the Mac Pro was using Vega. Don't have time to link the source, but there was a headline about it on the front page of Yahoo.

Understood, I misread your statement. I thought the 'big jump' you were referencing was to Cryptocurrency values, not AMD prices per the thread title. My bad.

 

[nathanddrews]

I'm too much of an old fuddy duddy to understand cryptocurrencies. I thought they started as an ironic joke related to the whole "fiat currency" conspiracies about paper money v. gold standard, et al. Turns out that I just missed the money train.

 

[deanx0r]

Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are still limited to four use cases: speculation, buying drugs, buying child pornography and ransomware. It's just the suckers that have been in late are trying to sell their coins to new suckers for more than they bought it for.

There are plenty of ways to spend mined crypto coins beside withdrawing from an exchange. I have bought online services with BTC, some retailers such as overstock let pay with BTC, or you can easily purchase gift cards from you favourite retailers such as Amazon or Walmart with BTC.

You'll be in for a rude awakening when the dollar value tanks. There is currently little confidence in the US economy and the US dollar, a fiat currency LOADED with debt. Crypto currencies aren't going anywhere, it's the way forward.

 

[Yakk]

In the US at least it's considered taxable at time of earning, I think they also tax if you convert it to USD as well.

Hmm, what do you mean by tax at time of earning?

I wouldn't know exactly the USD value at the time I earned additional coins. Meaning, when I've mined 0.0001 or 0.01 or 1 coin these all have different values in time at different exchanges when these were deposited in varying amounts into my wallet potentially multiple times a day.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Hmm, what do you mean by tax at time of earning?

I wouldn't know exactly the USD value at the time I earned additional coins. Meaning, when I've mined 0.0001 or 0.01 or 1 coin these all have different values in time at different exchanges when these were deposited in varying amounts into my wallet potentially multiple times a day.

From my understanding, you are to be taxed at the time of obtaining BTC on whatever the value is at that moment, and yes that makes it phenomenally difficult to calculate.

From the IRS doc linked above:

Q-3: Must a taxpayer who receives virtual currency as payment for goods or services include in computing gross income the fair market value of the virtual currency?
A-3: Yes. A taxpayer who receives virtual currency as payment for goods or services must, in computing gross income, include the fair market value of the virtual currency, measured in U.S. dollars, as of the date that the virtual currency was received. See Publication 525, Taxable and Nontaxable Income, for more information on miscellaneous income from exchanges involving property or services.

Q-5: How is the fair market value of virtual currency determined?
A-5: For U.S. tax purposes, transactions using virtual currency must be reported in U.S. dollars. Therefore, taxpayers will be required to determine the fair market value of virtual currency in U.S. dollars as of the date of payment or receipt. If a virtual currency is listed on an exchange and the exchange rate is established by market supply and demand, the fair market value of the virtual currency is determined by converting the virtual currency into U.S. dollars (or into another real currency which in turn can be converted into U.S. dollars) at the exchange rate, in a reasonable manner that is consistently applied.

Q-8: Does a taxpayer who “mines” virtual currency (for example, uses computer resources to validate Bitcoin transactions and maintain the public Bitcoin transaction ledger) realize gross income upon receipt of the virtual currency resulting from those activities?
A-8: Yes, when a taxpayer successfully “mines” virtual currency, the fair market value of the virtual currency as of the date of receipt is includible in gross income. See Publication 525, Taxable and Nontaxable Income, for more information on taxable income.

For what it's worth, due to the intense difficulty in calculating something like this, if you make a good faith effort to give the IRS some cut of what you're doing, they're unlikely to try to bend you over a barrel for it, if only because of how much effort it might be to actually calculate such things. For me, I'm using nicehash which is technically renting out my gear's processing for BTC, so I get paid in bulk payments which (handily) also includes the dollar value, so it'll be far easier to calculate than if I was mining ETH directly, for instance.

 

[DisarmedDespot]

You'll be in for a rude awakening when the dollar value tanks. There is currently little confidence in the US economy and the US dollar, a fiat currency LOADED with debt. Crypto currencies aren't going anywhere, it's the way forward.

Yes, you're right. When the world economy collapses and society falls apart, those pedo pesos you've saved up will sure come in useful!

This is way out of line.

AT Moderator ElFenix

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Yes, you're right. When the world economy collapses and society falls apart, those pedo pesos you've saved up will sure come in useful!

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.