AMD server roadmap, 28nm in H2 2014

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Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,118
58
91
I totally understand that. Samsung has a somewhat weird business model in general. Traditionally, when you vertically integrate you don't also sell to your competitors. The difference is that Samsung started as a supplier whereas historically companies that end up vertically integrated start out at the top or bottom of that stack and build down or up respectively. But it seems hard to imagine Samsung not eventually having to be a more traditional vertically integrated company and stop supplying to others. Thoughts?

I agree. And I think Samsung sees themselves moving in that direction as well.

They don't care whether their foundry fabs are full of their own internally designed ICs for their smartphones or full of externally designed ICs for fabless customers...but they know they make the most money if their fabs are loaded with their own chips. Intel knows this too.
 

Av9114

Junior Member
Nov 29, 2012
21
4
76
I agree. And I think Samsung sees themselves moving in that direction as well.

They don't care whether their foundry fabs are full of their own internally designed ICs for their smartphones or full of externally designed ICs for fabless customers...but they know they make the most money if their fabs are loaded with their own chips. Intel knows this too.

This is going to be interesting to watch. You've got Qualcomm, Samsung, Apple, Intel, and Nvidia all competing in this big emerging market and you've got to think some of them are going to come out worse for the wear. It seems to me that Samsung and Nvidia are in the worst positions at the moment.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
This is going to be interesting to watch. You've got Qualcomm, Samsung, Apple, Intel, and Nvidia all competing in this big emerging market and you've got to think some of them are going to come out worse for the wear. It seems to me that Samsung and Nvidia are in the worst positions at the moment.

Some certainly will soon(TM). Right now its just being STM, TI, Renesas, Freescale, Marvell and so on being punished. But the "canibalism" is already in full swing.

Right now the ARM segment is in a small loss just like the x86. Qualcomm for example only got progress on the expense of other ARM makers. The weaker ones will dissapear.
 
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Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,118
58
91
This is going to be interesting to watch. You've got Qualcomm, Samsung, Apple, Intel, and Nvidia all competing in this big emerging market and you've got to think some of them are going to come out worse for the wear. It seems to me that Samsung and Nvidia are in the worst positions at the moment.

Nokia and RIM are in the worst position :p

Technology cannot compensate for the handicap of incompetent management.
 

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,952
1,585
136
Anybody who has dealt with Samsung.........but they sure build great product.

my South Korean contact once told me Samsung's internal security service was more plugged in than the government's...unfortunately that will remain a rumour as I haven't been able to verify this with my North Korean contact because....I don't have one.

ROLF.

About the copying: How much is a National cultural part vs how much a Samsung part?

About the innovation. Samsung does not innovate much, as bringing new ideas into products for the market. But they have loads of inventions for the production part. Dont underestimate that importance, and the competence and creativity it takes to get there. And as others have said, its a very agile company on top of that. Its a swift monster.
 

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,952
1,585
136
I totally understand that. Samsung has a somewhat weird business model in general. Traditionally, when you vertically integrate you don't also sell to your competitors. The difference is that Samsung started as a supplier whereas historically companies that end up vertically integrated start out at the top or bottom of that stack and build down or up respectively. But it seems hard to imagine Samsung not eventually having to be a more traditional vertically integrated company and stop supplying to others. Thoughts?

Yes. Dont let other use your tools.
Your production technology and processes, gives you the edge, when the markets start to turn more red. When Samsung enters a business, given its huge size and copy-copy approach, it will turn a little more red. I am sure they will stop supplying to others the moment they get on top of the foundry business technologically. If they can not get there, they will exit. They are as good at exiting markets/technology/products as entering new ones.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,118
58
91
About the copying: How much is a National cultural part vs how much a Samsung part?

In my experience in this industry, working across the gamut of cultures captured in Samsung, TSMC, UMC, SMIC, Hitachi, Philips/NXP, ST, etc...what it comes down to is the cultural values at the individual level as they manifest in ego versus humility.

The engineers at the Asian corporations I have dealt with displayed a surprising level of acceptance of humility, they don't view it with shame, and a surprising level of lack of personal ego.

I observed the exact opposite in going east from Asia, to N.America to Europe. As you go east you find more individuality that gets wrapped up in a sense of self-importance that then comes out as ego and being unable to accept the humility of "having to resort" to copying someone elses idea...be it internally or externally to the company.

In the west we call it the "not invented here" or NIH complex. People who view themselves with such high regard, ego, to accept the inputs of others.

Go west, towards Asia, and not only will you not find NIH issues, they also have less concerns with taking advantage of information created externally (IP theft, etc).

From what I have seen, from my perspective it is one in the same. The same mental hangups that manifest as NIH in western cultures and businesses is what also creates a culture that views "stealing IP" as being unethical and immoral.

And on the side of the same coin, the same mentality that enables humility, the acceptance of an outsider's input, is what also negates the mental barrier that would otherwise prevent an engineer from considering stealing/borrowing/misappropriating IP from an outsider as well.

If you want to destroy the culture of IP theft you simply infuse the culture with a sense of individualism, from there a sense of ego and pride will grow that will snuff out IP theft from the ground-up IMO.