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AMD?s 64-bit gamble

Adul

Adul

Elite Member
http://www.msnbc.com/news/813950.asp?cp1=1

For much of its 33-year history, Advanced Micro Devices Inc. prospered by making cheaper, sometimes faster versions of microprocessors pioneered by Intel Corp. Now, AMD is planning its biggest launch ever ? and it?s no Intel knockoff. The new processors share some of the same elements found in powerful servers but will also target personal computers.
 
INTEL DOWNPLAYS CHIP
... isn?t much more than a warmed-over version of the existing Athlon, or K7, processor.
?If you look hard at where the Hammer product is, it?s a K7 core,? Burns said. ?They bolted a memory controller to it, and they added six instructions from what I can tell and a couple address lines. It?s not true innovation.?
 
?If you look hard at where the Hammer product is, it?s a K7 core,? Burns said. ?They bolted a memory controller to it, and they added six instructions from what I can tell and a couple address lines. It?s not true innovation.?
Click to expand...
ah, marketing spew
 
Originally posted by: KF
INTEL DOWNPLAYS CHIP
... isn?t much more than a warmed-over version of the existing Athlon, or K7, processor.
?If you look hard at where the Hammer product is, it?s a K7 core,? Burns said. ?They bolted a memory controller to it, and they added six instructions from what I can tell and a couple address lines. It?s not true innovation.?
Click to expand...

I would like to know what Mr. Burns would say about the Xeon using the same logic.

 
I would like to know what Mr. Burns would say about the Xeon using the same logic

I don't think Intel has ever claimed the Xeon to be a next generation CPU (over the P4). AMD is saying the Hammer is 8th generation while the Athlon is 7th generation. From all the microarchitectural details released so far, I would say Mr. Burns is about right. The Hammer is a 64-bit Athlon with an integrated memory controller. The rest of the changes seem to be minor tweaks, rather than a new microarhcitecture. Kind of like the Pentium Classic --> Pentium MMX... some new instructions (MMX), and a few tweaks to the microarchitecture (bigger L1). Nobody ever called the Pentium MMX the next generation.
 
"Intel, which normally is relatively quiet about its competition, has been uncharacteristically vocal about Hammer, saying it isn?t much more than a warmed-over version of the existing Athlon, or K7, processor."

So "uncharacteristically vocal" about something that's only a "warmed-over version of the Athlon"?



 
Yes, it's quite clear that a 64-bit processor with an integrated memory controller running dual channel DDR memory is nothing more than a warmed-up Athlon.
rolleye.gif
Yeah, that's about as logical as saying the Itanium 2 is basically a warmed-up Itanium 1.

I don't get it, what's so "warmed-up"....
 
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Yes, it's quite clear that a 64-bit processor with an integrated memory controller running dual channel DDR memory is nothing more than a warmed-up Athlon.
rolleye.gif
Yeah, that's about as logical as saying the Itanium 2 is basically a warmed-up Itanium 1.

I don't get it, what's so "warmed-up"....
Click to expand...

I'm waiting for PM to get in here so we can hear his take. According to the Itantium 2 thread, he only shows up if the Bat Signal is cast on the night sky 😀
 
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Yes, it's quite clear that a 64-bit processor with an integrated memory controller running dual channel DDR memory is nothing more than a warmed-up Athlon.
rolleye.gif
Yeah, that's about as logical as saying the Itanium 2 is basically a warmed-up Itanium 1.

I don't get it, what's so "warmed-up"....
Click to expand...
Yeah, perhaps they just need a bigger heatsink/fan unit?

Aaaanyway, I'm gonna go take a painkiller and put some ice on my face...friggin wisdom teeth.

 
I don't know about the bat signal - maybe just threads that have "Itanium 2" in the title. 🙂

I'm not going to comment much. I make it my personal policy to never say negative things in public about AMD's products. If you guys want an experts opinion and want to stick to this BBS, send up the bat signal for Sohcan. He knows what he's talking about and, unlike me, will call it as he sees it.
 
Originally posted by: pm
If you guys want an experts opinion and want to stick to this BBS, send up the bat signal for Sohcan. He knows what he's talking about and, unlike me, will call it as he sees it.
Click to expand...
"He gave us the signal" *cue Danny Elfman music*.... 😀

Unfortunately I've got a pile of projects to grade as well as a systems benchmarking report due tomorrow...I'll be back to comment later.

 
Originally posted by: lambasa
I don't think Intel has ever claimed the Xeon to be a next generation CPU (over the P4). AMD is saying the Hammer is 8th generation while the Athlon is 7th generation. From all the microarchitectural details released so far, I would say Mr. Burns is about right. The Hammer is a 64-bit Athlon with an integrated memory controller. The rest of the changes seem to be minor tweaks, rather than a new microarhcitecture. Kind of like the Pentium Classic --> Pentium MMX... some new instructions (MMX), and a few tweaks to the microarchitecture (bigger L1). Nobody ever called the Pentium MMX the next generation.
Click to expand...

Let's see.... The changes of *Hammer when compared to Athlon:

1. 64-bit chip
2. Integrated memory-controller
3. HyperTransport (equivalent to 800MHz FSB) instead of FSB
4. Reworked cache (More L2 in some models, wider datapaths?)
5. SSE2-support
6. Reworked pipeline
7. SOI
8. Generic improvements in the core.

IMO, 1, 2, or 3 alone would justify calling the chip "8th generation" instead of "7th generation". But they are doing alot more than just 1, 2 or 3.

Burns works for Intel, it's his job to downplay competitors. What is he supposed to say? That Hammer is really an awesome design? Yeah, I would like to see THAT happening
rolleye.gif
 
Well, marketing BS will always be marketing BS, I couldn't care less, I buy whatever gets the work done at the best price.

But OTOH I think it's funny that he should say that considdering intel decided to rename the Katmai "Pentium III" when all that was added was SSE and the oh so popular id number.
 
Originally posted by: Nemesis77

3. HyperTransport (equivalent to 800MHz FSB) instead of FSB
Click to expand...

Hmmm..interesting. Will that behave similar to the P4's quad-pumped bus? I mean, does this mean that running asynchronous memory ratios on the Hammer offer similar benefits as running asynchronous memory ratios on the P4? That would be cool.
 
If AMD is in luck, the people will jump on its x86 64-bit processor even if they don't need it, maybe they just perceive it to be better than the "old and outdated" 32-bit procecessor from intel. After all, people do buy 300HP cars even if they know they will be stuck in traffic jams most of the time.
 
Originally posted by: Pocatello
If AMD is in luck, the people will jump on its x86 64-bit processor even if they don't need it, maybe they just perceive it to be better than the "old and outdated" 32-bit procecessor from intel. After all, people do buy 300HP cars even if they know they will be stuck in traffic jams most of the time.
Click to expand...

That extra horse comes in handy when trying to make up for lost time sitting in traffic man! 😛. I dont think many people will jump on the hammer unless they truely need something it offers. I know many people who say their P-III 450 or celeron 566 is all they will ever need. The geek's of the computer market only take up 10% of it, I could see computer geeks buying, but only because it's the latest and greatest, IF that's what it turns out to be.
 
Originally posted by: CrazySaint
Originally posted by: Nemesis77

3. HyperTransport (equivalent to 800MHz FSB) instead of FSB
Click to expand...

Hmmm..interesting. Will that behave similar to the P4's quad-pumped bus? I mean, does this mean that running asynchronous memory ratios on the Hammer offer similar benefits as running asynchronous memory ratios on the P4? That would be cool.
Click to expand...

Ummmm, no idea. The "FSB" in *Hammer is _not_ like your traditional FSB in P4 on Athlon for example. It offers similar bandwidth as 800MHz FSB does, but that doesn't mean that you could say it's a "800MHz FSB", since it's not. It's an HyperTransport-link. It doesn't really have anything to do with the memory and it's speed, since memory talks directly with the CPU, not via FSB or HyperTransport.
 
So what does Mr. Burns say about Pentium 2 -> Pentium 3? is that a new generation?

[/i]... isn?t much more than a warmed-over version of the existing Athlon, or K7, processor.
?If you look hard at where the Hammer product is, it?s a K7 core,? Burns said. ?They bolted a memory controller to it, and they added six instructions from what I can tell and a couple address lines. It?s not true innovation.?[/i]

 
Originally posted by: Jellomancer
Who cares if it's a "warmed up" K7? A Pentium 4 is a warmed up Pentium isn't it?
Click to expand...


Although I think it may be a little cheap to call the Hammer a warmed over K7, I disagree with the idea that the P4 is a warmed up P!!!. P4 was designed from the ground up as a completely different arcitecture than the previous chips. AFAIK, there is zero shared design between the P3 and the P4, besides obviously the most basic components that don't require revision. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but i dont think there's any connection between P4 and the rest of the pentium family.

Kramer
 
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