AMD Ryzen (Summit Ridge) Benchmarks Thread (use new thread)

[Dresdenboy]

Right, I was saying that if AMD went to $20 per share, it would not be worth 60% of Intel's market value. We are in solid agreement here

I stand corrected, somehow missed a "not" on my mobile, while in motion.

Then I turn around and support your point!

 

[Ajay]

Even if they will manage to get a 10% of the CPU Server market (~15Billions) in 2018, it could generate half a Billion of profits per year.
And thats not counting any profits from Desktop/Laptop market (~35Billions) where AMD could reach 20% and generate 1B of profits.

That is viable for 2018, but first lets see if ZEN will compete as we are expecting. That is with high Perf/Watt no matter if IPC is higher than Sandy or Hasswell or whatever.

$40B by 2018??? You must have meant something different.

 

[AtenRa]

$40B by 2018??? You must have meant something different.

Ahh no, let me clear this,

~15B is the CPU Server market

From that if they get 10% or 1.5B revenue per year they could make half a Billion (0.5B) in profit.

Profit calculated with ~30% margins.

 

[rainy]

I don't know, it just seems odd that for people who supposedly want to see Zen compete, there seems to be so much negative misinformation deriding AMD's achievements and accomplishments happening here. Am I the only one who sees this?

You must understand that it's only of declaratory nature, in fact some of those Intel fans are really worried about competitive Zen because it is the last thing what they want to see.

Btw, you're definitely not alone.

 

[Atari2600]

Has anyone sat on a strong product until a month or so out from launch and shown relatively nothing?

 

[SpaceBeer]

As I know, Intel don't show anything regarding performance also. Just like nVidia. We can only see official powerpoint slides with x% increase over previous generation

 

[JoeRambo]

Has anyone sat on a strong product until a month or so out from launch and shown relatively nothing?

If some leaks are correct, current versions have errata that affect performance to the tune of 40+%. One does not want public to get hold of such products, before errata is fixed.

 

[superstition]

If some leaks are correct, current versions have errata that affect performance to the tune of 40+%. One does not want public to get hold of such products, before errata is fixed.

Isn't that the same leak that had all sorts of bogus claims, though?

 

[coffeemonster]

Question, why am I constantly having to correct misinformation and defend AMD on here?

I think this to myself frequently on almost every tech forum I browse nowadays. It's made easier by filling up your ignore list

 

[KTE]

This is a huge market. Not every case is the same. These are $100m+ contracts being negotiated. People have been yearning for a second source if for anything but as a bargaining chip. Shifting from Intel to AMD is a joke compared to shifting from Intel to Power8/9, and IBM has been recording profits in their hardware division and expects a growth to double digit marketshare by 2020. Google uses Power8 for instance.

In the context of Zen.. AMD doesn't need much of the market to declare Zen a success in servers, 5-10% would be huge (they are less than 1% currently), and it's certainly achievable provided they have a good product. Or do we forget that at one point they had over 20% of the market share? I personally worked with racks of Sun Opteron servers back then, and they were great, no code changes needed, stuff just ran better and consumed less power than it did on competing Intel servers. We ran mission critical telco software on these.. with FCC fines if stuff broke, no issue.

If Zen can match perf/watt of Intel in datacenter it will sell. Period. Most businesses will continue to buy Intel as they always do, but that's not what I am talking about.

The whole premise of referencing Opteron glory days as if 2004 computing market and AMD is the same...

Sent from HTC 10
(Opinions are own)

 

[Phynaz]

Question, why am I constantly having to correct misinformation and defend AMD on here?

We are all wondering why you have to defend AMD.

 

[Phynaz]

Ahh no, let me clear this,

~15B is the CPU Server market

From that if they get 10% or 1.5B revenue per year they could make half a Billion (0.5B) in profit.

Profit calculated with ~30% margins.

Gross margins != Profit.

 

[Atari2600]

The whole premise of referencing Opteron glory days as if 2004 computing market and AMD is the same...

To be honest, when someone says to me "things are different now" with the basic reasoning being tantamount to "just because", you can usually catch a strong whiff of the bullsh!t off them.

***Assuming Zen is technically competitive.***

--- If folks buy their servers/workstations direct from the likes of Dell, Lenovo, Supermicro, HP or Fujitsu --- then they are going to be offered a choice of AMD or Intel x86 processors[1]. The instruction sets are 99.999% common between Zen and Skylake. Furthermore, software will typically have been run on older CPUs (i.e. Sandy/Ivy Bridge), which will have complete commonality of instruction set with Zen. The new servers will also have been verified by the OEM for the main commercial codes used and the customer can choose the best solution for their own workload based on perf/watt, perf/watt/price or whatever metric they want. The OEM will **likely** be able to offer AMD CPUs at a competitive price while **probably** generating a better internal profit margin[1] due to AMD historically charging less for their CPU than Intel.

--- If someone is large enough to discuss their requirements directly with the CPU vendor and seek to have a direct commercial agreement with the CPU vendor, then the argument of the market being different is largely moot as these customers operate outside the "marketplace" anyway. These massive multinationals have already professed they'd change from x86 to Pwr8 in a heartbeat if it improved their lot, so changing from Intel x86 to AMD x86 won't even register as an obstacle[2]. They will think nothing of blowing 6 figure sums on in-house efforts for both data verification and performance validation efforts to see if Zen is a better alternative.


[1]Assuming Intel don't revisit their 2002-2007 dirty tricks campaign. You'd hope the FTC and EU would come down on them like a ton of bricks if they got even the slightest hint of it after previous investigations and settlements.

[2]Assuming discussions have begun early enough for parity between Zen/Broadwell/Skylake in customised instructions.


I'm happy to hear evidence to the contrary on the above - but if someone replies with an "I work in IT, things are different just cos I say so" response, I'll treat it with the derision it deserves.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

^^^I am certainly no subject mater expert however for the time I did tech sales to mid sized companies (not Enterprise but good sized companies up to 5k workers or so), I never had a client ask for a specific CPU nearly all the time it was about cost/budget there were a few exceptions for data centers or customers that ran an unusually large amount of servers but they were very rare. Every decent sized business visualizes their machines and the difference between servers really isn't all that important. The IT Director or Purchaser may have an preference but budget always trumped desires.
Most have given up on keeping desktops universal too, its just too difficult to keep every desktop the same unless you lease them but then you are paying a premium to have that luxury. Most bought them in runs and they were looking to keep them all similar RAM and HD specs, again they really didn't care about the processor too much.

 

[swilli89]

We are all wondering why you have to defend AMD.

Except that you and a few others are constantly on police duty for any positive news concerning AMD. Why not sit back and enjoy the waves of news and rumors we get to discuss instead of always posting with a negative slant towards anything related to AMD?

 

[sirmo]

We are all wondering why you have to defend AMD.

Because I would like to have an objective discussion about Zen. Saying Zen won't sell in the datacenter without even seeing it is not constructive in the least.

 

[KTE]

To be honest, when someone says to me "things are different now" with the basic reasoning being tantamount to "just because", you can usually catch a strong whiff of the bullsh!t off them.

***Assuming Zen is technically competitive.***

--- If folks buy their servers/workstations direct from the likes of Dell, Lenovo, Supermicro, HP or Fujitsu --- then they are going to be offered a choice of AMD or Intel x86 processors[1]. The instruction sets are 99.999% common between Zen and Skylake. Furthermore, software will typically have been run on older CPUs (i.e. Sandy/Ivy Bridge), which will have complete commonality of instruction set with Zen. The new servers will also have been verified by the OEM for the main commercial codes used and the customer can choose the best solution for their own workload based on perf/watt, perf/watt/price or whatever metric they want. The OEM will **likely** be able to offer AMD CPUs at a competitive price while **probably** generating a better internal profit margin[1] due to AMD historically charging less for their CPU than Intel.

--- If someone is large enough to discuss their requirements directly with the CPU vendor and seek to have a direct commercial agreement with the CPU vendor, then the argument of the market being different is largely moot as these customers operate outside the "marketplace" anyway. These massive multinationals have already professed they'd change from x86 to Pwr8 in a heartbeat if it improved their lot, so changing from Intel x86 to AMD x86 won't even register as an obstacle[2]. They will think nothing of blowing 6 figure sums on in-house efforts for both data verification and performance validation efforts to see if Zen is a better alternative.


[1]Assuming Intel don't revisit their 2002-2007 dirty tricks campaign. You'd hope the FTC and EU would come down on them like a ton of bricks if they got even the slightest hint of it after previous investigations and settlements.

[2]Assuming discussions have begun early enough for parity between Zen/Broadwell/Skylake in customised instructions.


I'm happy to hear evidence to the contrary on the above - but if someone replies with an "I work in IT, things are different just cos I say so" response, I'll treat it with the derision it deserves.

Not sure what the heck you're on about.

You sure you're talking enterprise?

Sent from HTC 10
(Opinions are own)

 

[rainy]

We are all wondering why you have to defend AMD.

By all you mean members of blue club like yourself or guy who liked your post?

 

[AtenRa]

Gross margins != Profit.

I dont believe I said Gross Margins = Profit

I said with 1.5B revenue (10% of market share out of 15B per year) they will get 0.5B profits if they will have 30% margins.

1. Gross Margins = (Revenue - COGs ) / Revenue

where COGs = cost of goods

and

2. Gross Profit = Revenue - COGs

Since we know Revenue (1.5B) and Margins (30%) we can find COGs and then we can find Gross Profit

for 1 and 2

Gross Profit = 0.45B or almost Half a Billion

 

[Phynaz]

I dont believe I said Gross Margins = Profit

I said with 1.5B revenue (10% of market share out of 15B per year) they will get 0.5B profits if they will have 30% margins.

1. Gross Margins = (Revenue - COGs ) / Revenue

where COGs = cost of goods

and

2. Gross Profit = Revenue - COGs

Since we know Revenue (1.5B) and Margins (30%) we can find COGs and then we can find Gross Profit

for 1 and 2

Gross Profit = 0.45B or almost Half a Billion

Well you did correct yourself, your first post said profit, not gross profit.

Anyway, gross profit is crappy measure of performance. It's kinda like how people were saying the consoles were going to get AMD $300M in profit. It doesn't matter at all what your gross profit is if keeping the business running eats it all.

What do you think 10% market share will add to AMD's bottom line?

 

[Phynaz]

Because I would like to have an objective discussion about Zen. Saying Zen won't sell in the datacenter without even seeing it is not constructive in the least.

You want to have an objective conversation about rumors and supposition that support your position. If you really wanted a true conversation you would ask why people think what they do, rather than complaining that you "have to defend AMD".

 

[Phynaz]

By all you mean members of blue club like yourself or guy who liked your post?

Ummm...I'm a member of Club Blue, Club Red, Club Green, and an couple of others (what color is the ARM club?). I'm in the rainbow club

 

[Arachnotronic]

Ummm...I'm a member of Club Blue, Club Red, Club Green, and an couple of others (what color is the ARM club?). I'm in the rainbow club

Pretty sure ARM is also blue, just check out the logo!

 

[AtenRa]

Well you did correct yourself, your first post said profit, not gross profit.

Anyway, gross profit is crappy measure of performance. It's kinda like how people were saying the consoles were going to get AMD $300M in profit. It doesn't matter at all what your gross profit is if keeping the business running eats it all.

What do you think 10% market share will add to AMD's bottom line?

Half a Billion of gross profit added over what they currently have will make them have a nice profit. If we also include the extra gross profit from the Desktop/Laptop sales of ZEN CPUs/APUs, in the end they could make a nice come back.

What do you mean by bottom line ??

 

[Arachnotronic]

I dont believe I said Gross Margins = Profit

I said with 1.5B revenue (10% of market share out of 15B per year) they will get 0.5B profits if they will have 30% margins.

1. Gross Margins = (Revenue - COGs ) / Revenue

where COGs = cost of goods

and

2. Gross Profit = Revenue - COGs

Since we know Revenue (1.5B) and Margins (30%) we can find COGs and then we can find Gross Profit

for 1 and 2

Gross Profit = 0.45B or almost Half a Billion

You assume that operating expenses (sales and marketing, for example) don't scale up with revenue.