AMD Ryzen (Summit Ridge) Benchmarks Thread (use new thread)

[sirmo]

Very few companies buy direct from AMD or Intel. If an enterprise wants multiple sources they use HP and Dell. AMD isn't considered a "source".

Absolutely. Guess where Rory Read is today. The guy who hand picked Lisa Su at AMD.

 

[carop]

Right, a vendor can ask for some instructions, and AMD can provide them. But this requires time.

A cannot disclose information about similar scenarios, for obvious reasons, but this process (going from the customer request to the final availability) might require yearS. And I'm not joking: there's a capital S at the end...

Urs Hölzle is Senior Vice President for Technical Infrastructure at Google:

“People ask me if we would switch to POWER, and the answer is absolutely,” Hölzle said emphatically and unequivocally. “Even for a single generation.” And the reason is simple: A 20 percent advantage, to pick a number that he threw out, on a very large number of systems that Google deploys every year, “is a very large number. And after that, if conditions change, we might switch back.”

https://www.nextplatform.com/2015/04/29/google-will-do-anything-to-beat-moores-law/

Considering that hyperscalers (Amazon, Facebook, Google, etc...) control their own software stacks from the operating system kernel all the way up through their databases, data stores, caching layers, middleware, cluster management, workload scheduling, and application software, they are the companies that will have the easiest time porting their code over even to a new architecture if an advantage can be had.

And yet you are suggesting otherwise. Is Urs Hölzle also joking?

 

[Phynaz]

Absolutely. Guess where Rory Read is today. The guy who hand picked Lisa Su at AMD.

Huh? Rory was fired. But before you start arguing the point, that's already been discussed and will be off topic here.

And what that has to do with enterprise IT procurement is over my head.

 

[krumme]

Very few companies buy direct from AMD or Intel. If an enterprise wants multiple sources they use HP and Dell. AMD isn't considered a "source".

Yep. And neither is Intel a source.
I might find it interesting privatly nerding about economics and technology in cpu forum but when it come to buying server solution as professional user i dont care the slightest about cpu. Zip. And why should i. We have performance targets and eg support is crucial as it affects TCO. I mean as a small customer what i buy is a performance of a software stack not a cpu with a specific label whatever. Besides from that i try to use as little time on IT as possible. Lol.
I hardly understand linux guys but my guess is they sleep with their software stack and not the cpu 🙂

 

[Glo.]

What people in this thread are arguing are the things they have no control, or do not have any power over. I genuinely suggest getting back on topic which is Summit Ridge CPU, not market, in any way, shape or form.

 

[KTE]

Urs Hölzle is Senior Vice President for Technical Infrastructure at Google:

https://www.nextplatform.com/2015/04/29/google-will-do-anything-to-beat-moores-law/

Considering that hyperscalers (Amazon, Facebook, Google, etc...) control their own software stacks from the operating system kernel all the way up through their databases, data stores, caching layers, middleware, cluster management, workload scheduling, and application software, they are the companies that will have the easiest time porting their code over even to a new architecture if an advantage can be had.

They do have it easiest, agreed.

But cdimauro's point is the enterprise reality from my experience -- away from the actual cloud hosting companies themselves - which are still not the majority - it is so darn difficult to change servers/platforms, and part of that is the risk and unfamiliarity element. It literally needs God approval and the processes are longwinded and horrendous.

From the client sites I've visited, very few Infra guys have a clue about AMD. I'm talking all the way to the CTOs.

Being relegated from a market is a nasty virus to fightback - means most professionals don't know anything about you.

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(Opinions are own)

 

[cdimauro]

Exactly. And of course, if there's some huge advantage, even big companies, with a consolidated partnership with Intel, can change. Never stated the contrary.

 

[krumme]

They do have it easiest, agreed.

But cdimauro's point is the enterprise reality from my experience -- away from the actual cloud hosting companies themselves - which are still not the majority - it is so darn difficult to change servers/platforms, and part of that is the risk and unfamiliarity element. It literally needs God approval and the processes are longwinded and horrendous.

From the client sites I've visited, very few Infra guys have a clue about AMD. I'm talking all the way to the CTOs.

Being relegated from a market is a nasty virus to fightback - means most professionals don't know anything about you.

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(Opinions are own)

I mean history just shows flat out you are wrong. Amd entering with opteron and gaining share quickly. Intel eroding Ibm market faster than what was imagined back then. I mean history just shows a cpu is a commodity.

 

[sirmo]

Huh? Rory was fired. But before you start arguing the point, that's already been discussed and will be off topic here.

And what that has to do with enterprise IT procurement is over my head.

Rory Read wasn't fired lol. He stepped down and stayed on the advisory board. He picked Lisa as his successor.

 

[krumme]

What people in this thread are arguing are the things they have no control, or do not have any power over. I genuinely suggest getting back on topic which is Summit Ridge CPU, not market, in any way, shape or form.

I cant talk about you guys but i swear i have no control or power over zen. Seriously. I know its hard to imagine but i dont.

 

[KTE]

I mean history just shows flat out you are wrong. Amd entering with opteron and gaining share quickly. Intel eroding Ibm market faster than what was imagined back then. I mean history just shows a cpu is a commodity.

Lol.

What youre talking about is something completely different to what we are.

And be serious with naming Opteron/Intel when talking about Zen.

Opteron was MILES ahead and cheaper than comparison. It was a bombshell.

Same with Intel. More than 5x lower cost/power.

IBM is fighting back for marketshare in Cloud hosting now. It's only their direction that changed.

Zen would do VERY WELL to even capture 5% from Intel.


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[Atari2600]

Being relegated from a market is a nasty virus to fightback - means most professionals don't know anything about you.

In my opinion that would make them anything but professional.

 

[krumme]

Lol.

What youre talking about is something completely different to what we are.

And be serious with naming Opteron/Intel when talking about Zen.

Opteron was MILES ahead and cheaper than comparison. It was a bombshell.

Same with Intel. More than 5x lower cost/power.

IBM is fighting back for marketshare in Cloud hosting now. It's only their direction that changed.

Zen would do VERY WELL to even capture 5% from Intel.


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(Opinions are own)

Yep. No bomb this time and not remotely so and yep no fat Ibm margin but only Intel 4b year profit to go for where dcg plays a big part. Fat enough i would say. But we have to remember the new wsa. Amd is not capacity constrained today as it was. And it is a big deal. That said is it eg possible to get 15% servershare in 3 years time you think? I vote yes.

 

[KTE]

In my opinion that would make them anything but professional.

And they still get paid +500 per day for years... Thats just life.

Yep. No bomb this time and not remotely so and yep no fat Ibm margin but only Intel 4b year profit to go for where dcg plays a big part. Fat enough i would say. But we have to remember the new wsa. Amd is not capacity constrained today as it was. And it is a big deal. That said is it eg possible to get 15% servershare in 3 years time you think? I vote yes.

In 3 years, it is certainly possible but judt remember this isn't just one way traffic for an onslaught. Intel doesn't sit back.

Just cast your mind back to Conroe.

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[Arachnotronic]

And they still get paid +500 per day for years... Thats just life.

In 3 years, it is certainly possible but judt remember this isn't just one way traffic for an onslaught. Intel doesn't sit back.

Just cast your mind back to Conroe.

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(Opinions are own)

AMD has been saying publicly for years that they are coming and want to take significant server share, so have many other companies (IBM, Qualcomm, Cavium, Applied Micro, Broadcom, et al.)

Does anybody think that Intel has been just twiddling its thumbs just waiting for this onslaught of competitors to just start ripping into its market share?

 

[AtenRa]

AMD has been saying publicly for years that they are coming and want to take significant server share, so have many other companies (IBM, Qualcomm, Cavium, Applied Micro, Broadcom, et al.)

Does anybody think that Intel has been just twiddling its thumbs just waiting for this onslaught of competitors to just start ripping into its market share?

Of all those only AMD has x86

 

[KTE]

^I think Intel is cautious but very well prepared, and they do realize Zen as a potential challenger. Everyone in the market is talking about the chip. Su herself forecasted double-digit server marketshare.

But Intel won't have the huge process advantage and the HP/Dell alliance that has always favored them, this time. There's other - bigger - powers out there now

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[Arachnotronic]

Of all those only AMD has x86

Right, but do you really think Intel doesn't take the ARM and POWER players seriously?

 

[KTE]

Right, but do you really think Intel doesn't take the ARM and POWER players seriously?

Thats a question where I'd biased if I said anything, to say the least 🙂

Of course they do feel threatened by them both.

I would love to say more.

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[itsmydamnation]

In the UK, for enterprise, majority of the big $$ licensing is by Core, not Proc. Enterprise just doesn't get this hardware visibility anymore.

Case in point, they lease the infrastructure from datacentres, they lease VMs, and VM licensing is by Platform-> Core+Mem. Storage is peanuts in comparison and usually very flexible.

The datacentres for cloud/vms, yes, they would have this choice and VM consolidation would be their priority. But they generally buy prebuilt servers directly from OEMs. They buy packaged solutions, en-masse. They don't mess with maintenance and support.

Larger mem requests (and HUGE associated costs) are typically for archaic dinosaurs like AIX/Sparc/HP UX that are becoming a smaller and smaller part of enterprise infrastructure. I think health and government are the two segments really holding onto these platforms.

However, some of the enterprise major software costs are huge... hardware pales in comparison. From that perspective, it can be the Proc.

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I dont agree with this at all really, Putting cloud to the side.

How is RHEL licensed
How is MS Server Licensed
How is ESX/vcentre/NSX Licensed
How is HyperV licensed

those costs without any other software are significant,

SAP's per user (also like massive amounts of memory)
share point is per user
Exchange is per user
HPSM is per user
I can keep listing software all day but i need to go to work most things that revolve around users are licensed per user, most things that support that are licensed per proc.
Its only really when you get to things like Oracle, MS SQL etc it becomes per Core.

On the memory front its not about massive amounts of memory, its about maximizing $/GB while getting as much memory as you can . The reason for that is VM farms are almost always Memory Cap/Memory throughput limited, then IO then CPU. Zen has an advantage with more memory channels.

 

[itsmydamnation]

edit😱dd double post

 

[Zstream]

Ugh, can you guys stop bickering and take that to P&N.

 

[krumme]

The new zen bm today.
Amd $9.45
Looks good
Edit:...unfortunately its probably the presumed Intel gpu licensing deal.
http://www.investors.com/news/techn...intel-rumors-ahead-of-zen-preview/?yptr=yahoo
A 6 year high btw. Glad all the daily amd is dead stuff is gone.

 

[Ajay]

Ugh, can you guys stop bickering and take that to P&N.

I think the discussion is valid vis-a-vis Zen, but needs it's own thread (Zen Server prognosis?).

 

[simas]

This does make sense but also raises the obvious question...how long will it take for those companies to make sure ZEN is good enough for them to trust them in such products?

No idea. but I would really surprised if major enterprises like HP or DELL do not think about _their_ vendor dependencies and associated contract/licensing risks. there is limited amount of money in this (only so much their market would tolerate) and being beholden to any single player (Intel, AMD, whatever) is very risky unless you want to donate vast majority of your profit margins to your 'supplier'. That is why Samsung makes their own chips, and those who cant do think of where they are going to source components and what choices are available. If Zen will hit the market, it would be stupid for major assembler/manufacturer not only to test it but wish it great success. Lower priced parts and competition in supply => greater margins. Anything else is just marketing BS (be it Nvidia or Intel or whatever). And also, I do not think of Intel (or Nvidia, or anyone else) as being 'wrong' or 'evil' or anything - if they have better product and can get better price, good for them , that is how free competition is supposed to work. However as end consumer, I want the impossible 🙂 - healthy margins for key companies so they can continue to exist and invest in R&D and at the same time low prices, which are in direct contradiction