inf64
Diamond Member
We have been over the VCore reading, it is due to power management options being enabled.
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AMD Ryzen (Summit Ridge) Benchmarks Thread (use new thread)
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imported_jjj
Senior member
Reasonable to assume that but XFR does have to push clocks above the listed ones so 4GHz listed to 4.3GHz ST XFR would be a healthy gain but nothing outrageous.
Ofc assuming the 6C result was not fake and ST clocks were 3.7GHz.That one could be fake too or the clocks assumption could be wrong.
Justinbaileyman
Golden Member
I am pretty sure the bench was from the 1600x 6c/12t not the flagship 1800x 8c/16t..
cytg111
Lifer
No hostility here. Never 🙂
To me there is a couple of areas where you can mitigate lack of single threaded performance to more cores(logical-whatever), one being games, second being video encoding and a distant third AI(cortana, alexia, whatever).
Eight cores at ~haswell ipc at 3GHz plus is overkill at tasks that the average Joe enjoys. Now we are gonna push 8 cores mainstream. Why? Cause an AMD 8 core is gonna cost the same as an Intel 4 core.
At the end of the day Joe is gonna get 8 cores and he wont know what to do with 7 of them.. Thats my point.
I am hoping that we will get another MHz race or equivalent that will get singlethreaded performance the comeback it derserves...... in 5-10 years 🙂
Those extra cores will be used by games going forward as the mainstream killer app. There are already titles where HEDT i7s with their 6 and 8 cores are pushing ridiculous minimum FPS with some impressive averages, sometimes leaving 6700k/7700k behind!
That is the future, and it's time those eight slow cores in current consoles start mapping to 8 real cores in the PC... especially when next generation consoles use Zen APUs. All that increased CPU grunt will require even faster CPUs in the desktop.
That, and the ocassional encode or rendering that will become a breeze thanks to having all those cores.. Low end has to move to 4 real cores, mainstream has to move to 6-8 real cores at this point. It's 2017. We've been stuck at 2-4 cores for ten years already.
Average joe benefits even if he thinks there's a hamster on a wheel powering his PC, power users benefit even more... etc. Everyone wins with more strong cores.
That is the future, and it's time those eight slow cores in current consoles start mapping to 8 real cores in the PC... especially when next generation consoles use Zen APUs. All that increased CPU grunt will require even faster CPUs in the desktop.
That, and the ocassional encode or rendering that will become a breeze thanks to having all those cores.. Low end has to move to 4 real cores, mainstream has to move to 6-8 real cores at this point. It's 2017. We've been stuck at 2-4 cores for ten years already.
Average joe benefits even if he thinks there's a hamster on a wheel powering his PC, power users benefit even more... etc. Everyone wins with more strong cores.
Crumpet
Senior member
If we could just stop average joe from buying dual core processors then gaming could move forward.
One title I game on has said for a long time that they want to do a massive graphics overhaul but they are held back by the fact that a majority of their playerbase are on potatoes, and forcing a higher requirement would be financial suicide.
Unfortunately, for as long as a super bargain chip like the G4560 exists, it's going to stay this way, so I hope that AMD has a quad core challenger for it.
One title I game on has said for a long time that they want to do a massive graphics overhaul but they are held back by the fact that a majority of their playerbase are on potatoes, and forcing a higher requirement would be financial suicide.
Unfortunately, for as long as a super bargain chip like the G4560 exists, it's going to stay this way, so I hope that AMD has a quad core challenger for it.
Doom2pro
Senior member
Even quads to a degree, I think 6 should be the new 4 and AMD seems to be moving in that direction as they are relegating their quads to the bottom of their Ryzen stack.
So what. In those rare situations where storing is a bottleneck you have 4 extra cores for same cost as comparable intel 4c to do the work. They will do the trick right?
The damn point not to be overlooked here is that in excactly the workloads where zen is comparatively weak its nearly always workloads that uses tons of cores thereby negating the difference and then some.
Saying amd positions this as hedt is wrong. This is 8c costing 320 to 500 usd. Its enthusiast consumer cpu.
It happens to come near or match or beat 6900 levels but its still a 8c cpu for 380 usd paired with a cheaper mb. I am sure amd will have 16c hedt like cpu at 899 for those that need a bit extra oompf and a gazilion pci lanes and sata ports.
Doom2pro
Senior member
Also new CPU-Z for Ryzen support: http://www.cpuid.com/news/48-cpu-z-for-ryzen.html
imported_jjj
Senior member
@cytg111
Ok so your argument is more that people don't need the horsepower than that apps don't scale. Ofc that would render a ST perf race irrelevant too.
Video encoding/transcoding does scale as far as i can tell but folks also use dedicated encoders and GPUs while many just do video editing on their phones apparently.
Gaming depends on what folks have so it should start to scale. Consoles do have 8 cores so devs are already doing it.
Machine learning is never gonna be done on CPU, worst case scenario is on GPU and best case on dedicated compute unit(s).
A key point is that we aren't talking average Joe. We call it mainstream here but it's far from it. Not that many users buy 200$+ CPUs and a discrete GPU. It's likely the top 10-15% of the market.
Clocks race or bigger cores unlikely. I suspect Intel will go for lower power and smaller core, with some luck they do a big core for server and bring it in consumer too, at the highest price they can afford to.
Ir's tricky as sales in consumer have been falling hard. Intel and AMD will have to milk the business segment the best they can and maybe try to serve enthusiast and gaming, if we are lucky.
Ok so your argument is more that people don't need the horsepower than that apps don't scale. Ofc that would render a ST perf race irrelevant too.
Video encoding/transcoding does scale as far as i can tell but folks also use dedicated encoders and GPUs while many just do video editing on their phones apparently.
Gaming depends on what folks have so it should start to scale. Consoles do have 8 cores so devs are already doing it.
Machine learning is never gonna be done on CPU, worst case scenario is on GPU and best case on dedicated compute unit(s).
A key point is that we aren't talking average Joe. We call it mainstream here but it's far from it. Not that many users buy 200$+ CPUs and a discrete GPU. It's likely the top 10-15% of the market.
Clocks race or bigger cores unlikely. I suspect Intel will go for lower power and smaller core, with some luck they do a big core for server and bring it in consumer too, at the highest price they can afford to.
Ir's tricky as sales in consumer have been falling hard. Intel and AMD will have to milk the business segment the best they can and maybe try to serve enthusiast and gaming, if we are lucky.
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Teizo
Golden Member
Pretty impressive it can maintain stability at such low voltage at that clock speed. The norm is that voltage scales down as clock speed scales down. I've seen clocks scale down and voltage stay up...but never voltage scale down and clocks stay up.
VHDL compilers from both alters and xilinx scales 2.5 times despite supporting up to 4 threads. A fairly complex fpga design with tight timings can require up to 45 mins to compile
imported_jjj
Senior member
lol sure but those are a niche with very limited usage.
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Lol. If you say so. But those limited usage is what let's you have better CPUs. And any using them is a consumer 🙂
Most importantly you asked.
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imported_jjj
Senior member
That won't change the fact that we are talking about a product category that can ship 10's of millions of units per year and an app that pretty much only an EE uses is of minimal relevance. It's been 7 years since Intel has released its first 6 cores, maybe ask why it doesn't scale yet. It is kinda said, machine learning is starting to be used in chip design and some folks can't even use a few CPU cores.
Sure i did ask and funny enough i was expecting this reply, hence the LOL.
Altera had a $16.7 billion valuation when Intel bought it. Both altera and xilinz shares a almost twice of intel. If its so rarely used and "of minimal relevance" than I have to say this topic you have absolute beyond your realm of comprehension. Good day to you sir
😎
GroundZero7
Member
Not sure they are worth that much.
imported_jjj
Senior member
You seem too angry to be rational.
There are maybe 300k EEs in the US and only a fraction work with FPGAs. The fact that Altera and Xilinx can't be bothered to provide decent software should tell you something about the state of the market.
We are talking productivity here so a faster software would be a relevant selling point, but they can't be bothered as the market lacks competition. You seem to be blaming me or the PC market because the FPGA vendors can't do their job.
Anyway, it is of minimal relevance for the overall PC market and if that offends you, you need to learn to accept reality.
Well he is blaming it on I tels poor scaling in CPUz. Lol
DrMrLordX
Lifer
Yes and no. I believe that memory speed/timing combination may have good latency but insufficient bandwidth. One would be better off with DDR4-3200 CAS/CL14 which is still quite nice:
http://pcpartpicker.com/product/jpH48d/gskill-memory-f43200c14d16gvk
Wait. . .
Ahem.
*cough*
Sure beats the alternative.
Hmm. I'd like to see that thing running SuperPi Mod 1.5 XS
Fry's - $489 for 1800X per employee
http://imgur.com/HciQqW5
Could be fake I suppose, but fits with the rumored pricing / ShopBLT leaks.
Link is b0rked.
Hey, I like APUs. Had AMD sold me B350 + Bristol Ridge in November, I'd be getting that and then later Raven Ridge instead of Ryzen/Summit Ridge. Funny how things work out.
Seconded. 1M and 32M pl0x.
It may be of relevance to the overall economy, but it's not of particular relevance as a target market to CPU vendors because there are not that many seats.
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