AMD Richland for desktops reviewed

[R0H1T]

Do you really think that people will be trying to save pocket change for a thing they will spend 2-3 years with it? You can't save a pizza (maybe not even a burguer + fries + drink) by going AMD in this case, and if you are going desktop, what's the problem in adding discrete?

Here's a fun little fact for you ~ I can get a pizza + burger + french fries + soft drink for less than 5$ here, I suspect many other developing nations are in the same boat as us ! I recall making a similar point over & over again in some other thread which is that an avg joe would love to save $$ whenever & wherever possible so upfront costs make all the difference in the world for people stuck between an AMD based PC over Intel + any dGPU out there

 

[Abwx]

As I said in my post. People who are building new systems and get new monitors, you think they will get a LOWER resolution monitor? No.

An i3 with a discrete card will smoke an APU and it's not much more money.

Never saw a i3 with dGfx in any consumer orientated xmart ,
let alone with a 7750.

Do you really think that people will be trying to save pocket change for a thing they will spend 2-3 years with it? You can't save a pizza (maybe not even a burguer + fries + drink) by going AMD in this case, and if you are going desktop, what's the problem in adding discrete?

The only thing average joe know how to plug
is the main/monitor/mouse/audio once he got
the thing out of the box and it will stay this way
till it is thrown away.

 

[mrmt]

Here's a fun little fact for you ~ I can get a pizza + burger + french fries + soft drink for less than 5$ here, I suspect many other developing nations are in the same boat as us ! I recall making a similar point over & over again in some other thread which is that an avg joe would love to save $$ whenever & wherever possible so upfront costs make all the difference in the world for people stuck between an AMD based PC over Intel + any dGPU out there

Which country is this? I really need to spend some time there

 

[R0H1T]

Which country is this? I really need to spend some time there

Hmmm I'm assuming this is a genuine query, in which case it'd be India, but you'll get similar prices in other developing nations where food is really quite a lot cheaper than computer hardware(so poor analogy IMO), here its anywhere between a sixth to 50% more expensive than US prices on avg.

 

[monstercameron]

As I said in my post. People who are building new systems and get new monitors, you think they will get a LOWER resolution monitor? No.

An i3 with a discrete card will smoke an APU and it's not much more money.

Also still frames of 1080p is not impressive sorry. Upload a 10 minute movie of gameplay with fps.

metro last light
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZidoJ-BOwKg

crysis 3 beta
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYgxHEk--j8

crysis 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nCFRBAcCik

metro 2033
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33gskS5k-jg

battlefield 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UDeqACXSd0

bioshock infinite
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4M6x-PK-KM

dead island riptide
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBVrehvxBgk

resident evil revelations
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GflzsOzVUIw

far cry 3 BD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQACWh4r_Dg

cod blops 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzefKe2D5Gc

dirt 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edAisQZSXkQ

resie 6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTArHs6Nmsc

ass creed 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGPBszqxZsc

far cry 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbLGTwo-_Gk

tomb raider
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vg3ymOCJLiE

crysis 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGGZWiqhBNo

grid 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3_Wy7h8Ktc

remember me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IC5E_jroblA

or you can search for yourself

http://www.youtube.com/results?sear....0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0...0.0...1ac..11.youtube.

this apu is capable of playing 1080p low, 16*9 low-medium, of whatever 768p high, much better than sub 720p 30fps consoles for $100-200 more than a console.

Most gamers [according to steam] play with 2-4 cores, with 4 or more GBs of ram and the most popular gpu is...intel hd 3000.

I dont understand how anyone can say that there isn't alot of value in a $150 apu that can game at 1080p for older games and 720p for newer games.

this is AMDs number 1 problem imo, if it isn't intel then the fanbois find excuses and demote it into "budget" or "cheapo" role, every review of these chips, has a statement that it isnt faster than intel, and they continually compare them to $200-300+ i5s and i7s or even worse they pair it with a tiny cpu and a gpu then claim that you can game better for just a little more...AMD needs to find a more persuasive way to change minds. Also intel has billions in the bank, can't you give amd a pass on this one? geezus!

 

[Chiropteran]

Apples to apples is Haswell to FX. If not, then tell me what is the competitor to FX?

You tell me, where is Intel's competitor for the Radeon HD 7970?

Haswell is clearly a reaction to trinity and a competitor for richland. Why would intel update the graphics core to compete with FX, which doesn't have a graphics core? It makes no sense, you argument makes no sense. This thread is about richland, if you want to talk about FX you really should start a new thread.

Also, you forgot to mention the part that we're talking about CPUs, and the CPU performance of haswell is twice of an 6800.
You don't judge a CPU on a part that 10% care about (iGPU) and ignore the main point (CPU performance).

Except, it's not. All you made-up examples where the Intel CPU is faster, it's not actually faster unless you add a 3rd party dedicated GPU. If anything, being the "CPU forum" as you say, we could compare the speed of the CPUs alone without adding dedicated GPU.

I wonder how Intel gaming performance stacks up without an nvidia or AMD video card doing all the heavy lifting?

I'm saying A6800 is a failed product because with 25$ more you can get twice gaming performance, and that's the whole point of the discussion.

I'm saying that is a lie.

 

[Phynaz]

Haswell is clearly a reaction to trinity and a competitor for richland.

Yeah, Intel reacted four years ago to a CPU that came out a few months ago.

You clearly no idea about CPU design at all.

 

[monstercameron]

Yeah, Intel reacted four years ago to a CPU that came out a few months ago.

You clearly no idea about CPU design at all.

that doesnt quite make sense, are you saying that trinity was designed a few months ago?

 

[Abwx]

You clearly no idea about CPU design at all.

To make such claims you sould first show your
credentials in this matter , otherwise it s just
hollow argumentation since you dont know
much more than your counterpart.

Or we should take your words at face value.?.

 

[Phynaz]

that doesnt quite make sense, are you saying that trinity was designed a few months ago?

No, but there is no way Haswell is a reaction to Trinity. Haswell is a reaction to the tablet market. Intel even talked at Computex that halfway through Haswell's design they changed their goals to focus on the mobile market.

 

[Abwx]

Haswell is a reaction to the tablet market.

No , it isnt , it s was on the radar long before the tablet
market gained momentum , actualy it is a chip devoted
to relatively low power usages but nowhere near the level
of adequate offerings , it was devellopped for portables
computers but with the clear intention to extend it to
the DT siblings.

 

[Phynaz]

No , it isnt , it s was on the radar long before the tablet
market gained momentum , actualy it is a chip devoted
to relatively low power usages but nowhere near the level
of adequate offerings , it was devellopped for portables
computers but with the clear intention to extend it to
the DT siblings.

You not only know more than AMD executives about their products, you now know more than Intel too!

 

[sushiwarrior]

No, but there is no way Haswell is a reaction to Trinity. Haswell is a reaction to the tablet market. Intel even talked at Computex that halfway through Haswell's design they changed their goals to focus on the mobile market.

Isn't SilverMont for tablets and Haswell for laptops?

 

[Phynaz]

SilverMont is for phones and tablets. Haswell's focus is tablets and thin and light notebook SOC's.

Other Intel mainstream x86 chips have always been built for desktop and then scaled down. Haswell is the first to be built for mobile and scaled up to desktop. Think stuff like the bit that turns off display refresh for static images. It's of no use on desktop, but a pretty big deal in mobile.

Just look at the non-Intel reports from Computex - the entire show is almost completely about mobile.

 

[R0H1T]

SilverMont is for phones and tablets. Haswell's focus is tablets and thin and light notebook SOC's.

Other Intel mainstream x86 chips have always been built for desktop and then scaled down. Haswell is the first to be built for mobile and scaled up to desktop.

Any tablet having a Haswell SoC will probably cost around a 1000$ so to say that the GT3e is going into tablets is foolhardy to say the least, except for surface pro. The rest of HD 4600 based chips will not make it into a tablet as they'll lack the necessary GPU power & the CPU power would be overkill in such situations, lesser battery life as well !

 

[Phynaz]

Any tablet having a Haswell SoC will probably cost around a 1000$ so to say that the GT3e is going into tablets is foolhardy to say the least, except for surface pro. The rest of HD 4600 based chips will not make it into a tablet as they'll lack the necessary GPU power & the CPU power would be overkill in such situations, lesser battery life as well !

You haven't been paying attention have you?

Let me quote Jared Walton:

Anand should have an article up shortly, but the short story is that at least one laptop manufacturer is realizing something like 40% better battery life on a Haswell Ultrabook.

A 40% increase in battery life puts Haswell in tablets - and especially convertibles. Who says a HD 4600 is too slow for a tablet?

Anyway, this is a Richland thread, it would be best to move this discussion to a Haswell thread.

 

[Abwx]

You not only know more than AMD executives about their products, you now know more than Intel too!

Typical answer of someone looking for a rapid exit
from a pressuring debate.

You haven't been paying attention have you?
Let me quote Jared Walton:
A 40% increase in battery life puts Haswell in tablets - and especially convertibles. Who says a HD 4600 is too slow for a tablet?

.

From a manufacturer to Walton , and all this threw you ,
without any information about the conditions to get
sucj a number , it could as well be 40% better battery
life in sleep mode....

 

[sushiwarrior]

A 40% increase in battery life puts Haswell in tablets - and especially convertibles. Who says a HD 4600 is too slow for a tablet?

Anyway, this is a Richland thread, it would be best to move this discussion to a Haswell thread.

You can make a tablet with bad battery life, you can't make a tablet with a higher TDP than the form factor supports.

Yes, let's get back on track. Haswell is competing with Richland.

 

[Vesku]

SilverMont is for phones and tablets. Haswell's focus is tablets and thin and light notebook SOC's.

Other Intel mainstream x86 chips have always been built for desktop and then scaled down. Haswell is the first to be built for mobile and scaled up to desktop. Think stuff like the bit that turns off display refresh for static images. It's of no use on desktop, but a pretty big deal in mobile.

Just look at the non-Intel reports from Computex - the entire show is almost completely about mobile.

How the heck was Haswell ever going to make it into tablets? Whatever the internal goal posts were the Haswell that launched is a continuation of a shifting of CPU:GPU representation in Intel products.

Now the following is just my personal opinion but the way I see it Windows Vista shows up and Intel graphics actually start to induce rage and returns on notebooks meanwhile AMD systems are relatively unaffected. The market is primarily Intel's and even without direct payouts the OEMs want to maintain the business relationship that has made them all a lot of money. So they don't change the product mix much in terms of Intel:AMD ratio but there is now an expectation that Intel up their game in terms of iGP. Why? Because the statement that pretty much any modern CPU is good enough for the average person, while it can be seen as lemons from lemonade talk from AMD, is actually true. Thanks to the internet, users are consuming more multimedia and interacting with more graphical applications. So the days of just barely good enough, sometimes not even that: I'm looking at you G45 chipset in Vista notebooks, iGP were numbered.

 

[monstercameron]

You haven't been paying attention have you?

Let me quote Jared Walton:


A 40% increase in battery life puts Haswell in tablets - and especially convertibles. Who says a HD 4600 is too slow for a tablet?

Anyway, this is a Richland thread, it would be best to move this discussion to a Haswell thread.

where does that increase come from? the y and u series ulv haswell chips all have 11-15W tdps with low base freqs, and we all know that intels tdp numbers are no where close to the actual power draw under stress. At best these parts will idle longer than ivb.

 

[SiliconWars]

40% bigger battery I'd guess.

 

[Phynaz]

40% bigger battery I'd guess.

I was talking about Haswell laptops, not Richland :biggrin:

 

[Shephard]

For games that aren't very demanding a top sku APU is ok. I play DOW 2, DIRT 2, FIFA 2012, F1 2012, StreetFighter 4, COD MW, etc, etc with my kids on our playroom 720p TV all the time

Users talking nosense here are the one who never experienced one of these APUs. You really should give it a try before making statements like that.

720p on a TV... games that don't look good in the first place.

I am sure that is enjoyable experience lol.

 

[Enigmoid]

Any tablet having a Haswell SoC will probably cost around a 1000$ so to say that the GT3e is going into tablets is foolhardy to say the least, except for surface pro. The rest of HD 4600 based chips will not make it into a tablet as they'll lack the necessary GPU power & the CPU power would be overkill in such situations, lesser battery life as well !

First lets look at tablets right now. Take the nexus 10 which costs ~$500 and add a $300 intel haswell cpu. Worst case senario only is $800. Considering intel's tablet chips generally cost less than $300 (and the price intel lists on their website isn't the price OEMs pay--retail price after markup is often lower than intel's supposed tray price) and the ARM SOC costs something a comparable haswell tablet could be acquired for $600-700.

HD 5200 isn't available for tablet chips at all (not ULV)

HD 4000 ULV is about 3x more powerful than any ARM chip available. It doesn't lack any gpu power. Haswell will be more powerful too so maybe 4x as powerful as the ipad 4.

 

[Chiropteran]

Yeah, Intel reacted four years ago to a CPU that came out a few months ago.

Haswell is a reaction to the tablet market.

The first iPad was released on April 3, 2010

Currently, it is 2013.

Four years ago was 2009, and 2009 occurred before the iPad was released.

Something is wrong with your logic. Haswell can't possibly be competing with trinity you argue, because haswell was initially designed 4 years ago, before trinity was released. Okay, I understand what you are saying- I may not fully agree, because I feel Intel could see what way AMD was planning to go as soon as AMD bought ATI, but whatever, you can make that argument.

But then you turn around and claim that Haswell was designed to react to tablets. Which, incidentally, did not exist as a viable market until the iPad created that market. Since the iPad was released AFTER Haswell's initial design 4 years ago (according to your logic above) somehow Intel reacted to the iPad a year before it was released?