AMD responds to "tough" questions from nVidia

[bryanW1995]

there is no benefit to playing possum at this point unless they really have nothing. However, it is conceivable that gt300 will still be out for xmas and they're still fiddling with clocks; say they could get a decent yield at 20% faster than 5870 but get great yields at 2% faster. What do you do then? You keep quiet and wait for the engineers to give you the goods, maybe throw out some smokescreens/physix comments, possibly take a jab at the lack of dx11 titles available right now. As mentioned several times already in our forums, ati can probably ramp up the clocks a bit if it's warranted, so if gt300 is only going to be slightly faster then it might behoove nvidia to keep quiet until they get right up to the launch date.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
naw, the best amd can hope to achieve is a 36/63 split or so... sheeple will buy pieces of crap as long as they have an intel or nvidia logo on them. I wonder what they'll do when larrabee comes out, talk about confusion!

I think you are forgetting about Zoners too though. There are loyal fans of every company.

Me and my friends argue about beer, dirtbikes, trucks, cars.......

Then you have your console fanbois which are even worse.

 

[WaitingForNehalem]

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: WaitingForNehalem

Why is AMD focusing so much on DX11 when most games are on DX9 console ports?

This is the problem! Do something about it. I'm sure the two leaders in GPU manufacturing can change this.

The game developers have that power not the hardware manufacturers.

They certainly do have the power. How do you think Nvidia got Physx included in Batman? Nvidia and ATI need to offer incentives (money, marketing) to create pc exclusives. Otherwise, they might as well stop producing cards or make higher AA/AF levels for the people that care about that stuff.

 

[*kjm]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
there is no benefit to playing possum at this point unless they really have nothing. However, it is conceivable that gt300 will still be out for xmas and they're still fiddling with clocks; say they could get a decent yield at 20% faster than 5870 but get great yields at 2% faster. What do you do then? You keep quiet and wait for the engineers to give you the goods, maybe throw out some smokescreens/physix comments, possibly take a jab at the lack of dx11 titles available right now. As mentioned several times already in our forums, ati can probably ramp up the clocks a bit if it's warranted, so if gt300 is only going to be slightly faster then it might behoove nvidia to keep quiet until they get right up to the launch date.

True and that is why I'm going to wait it out...... AMD came out with the 4890 with clocks of 850Mhz and they would overclock anywere from 960 to 980Mhz with no problem. I would think the new chip will reach that soon and then we still have the memory amount and bandwith to go.

I'm using my 4890 at 970/1015 now and it is working great with the fan speed set to 43% and could have bought the 5870 in stock but have just sat back and watched it go out of stock thinking on how good it could get in the next couple of months.

 

[SonicIce]

I just wish Rollo was still here for all this

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: WaitingForNehalem

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: WaitingForNehalem

Why is AMD focusing so much on DX11 when most games are on DX9 console ports?

This is the problem! Do something about it. I'm sure the two leaders in GPU manufacturing can change this.

The game developers have that power not the hardware manufacturers.

They certainly do have the power. How do you think Nvidia got Physx included in Batman? Nvidia and ATI need to offer incentives (money, marketing) to create pc exclusives. Otherwise, they might as well stop producing cards or make higher AA/AF levels for the people that care about that stuff.

Yeah right. Nvidia payed game developers money. In the end it's the game developers. Nvidia can't pay every single game developer who get more money on console game sales.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Seems like things might be getting back to the way they used to be with each company releasing cards several months apart from one another. Remember back when they used to trade being on top around every six months or so?

 

[jimhsu]

It seems like at least that the first release of these new gen cards (5870 and GT300) are already pushed to the limits, and therefore do not overclock well. We've already seen the 5870 and its only 5% (optimal) overclock ... GT300 will probably be similar.

 

[bfdd]

Originally posted by: SunnyD
Nvidia: But, but... PhysX isn't closed or proprietary!

Who knows, it may become open.

 

[MODEL3]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
those questions concern me greatly.

What I'm expecting/hoping to hear from nvidia is the following:

"Our new dx11 cards (gt300) will be out directly. They will kick the shit out of 5xxx. 5870 will be $150 by the time we're done leaking benchmarks this week."

What I actually heard was:

"We don't know when gt300 will be released. 5xxx is kicking our ass, so we're going to throw up more physix smoke and mirrors. We might not even beat 5870 as everyone expects. Think nv30 vs 9700 pro. By the way, are you guys hiring?"


NOW is the time for nvidia to show their hand. ATI can't easily change their launch products. Nvidia should be raining all over ati's parade right now. What nvidia has shown us is that gt300 is very late and/or 5xxx is going to be more competitive than many of us thought.

lol

 

[WaitingForNehalem]

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: WaitingForNehalem

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: WaitingForNehalem

Why is AMD focusing so much on DX11 when most games are on DX9 console ports?

This is the problem! Do something about it. I'm sure the two leaders in GPU manufacturing can change this.

The game developers have that power not the hardware manufacturers.

They certainly do have the power. How do you think Nvidia got Physx included in Batman? Nvidia and ATI need to offer incentives (money, marketing) to create pc exclusives. Otherwise, they might as well stop producing cards or make higher AA/AF levels for the people that care about that stuff.

Yeah right. Nvidia payed game developers money. In the end it's the game developers. Nvidia can't pay every single game developer who get more money on console game sales.

The logic is simple. Gamers buy hardware to play games. No games means no hardware for ATI/Nvidia. Sure there are the people that upgrade just because they want to but that isn't the majority. Nvidia knows there are no games which is why they are pushing GPGPU. They also admitted current cards can max out most games at high resolutions easily since they are just console ports.

 

[MODEL3]

If i had to guess, these questions that NV made, probable came when the tech sites got samples or after the briefings in 9-10 of September.

Let's hope, (Although i am not optimistic about it...) that NV (for NV's sake) is thinking that,
the 58X0 quantity right now, is very small to affect sales
(though, it will affect mindshare and brand recognition a little bit)
and they are hoping to do something (regarding leaks/bench etc...)
when Windows 7 is officially launch
(probably it will be a good timing to regain whatever mindshare and brand recognition lost).

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: WaitingForNehalem

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: WaitingForNehalem

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: WaitingForNehalem

Why is AMD focusing so much on DX11 when most games are on DX9 console ports?

This is the problem! Do something about it. I'm sure the two leaders in GPU manufacturing can change this.

The game developers have that power not the hardware manufacturers.

They certainly do have the power. How do you think Nvidia got Physx included in Batman? Nvidia and ATI need to offer incentives (money, marketing) to create pc exclusives. Otherwise, they might as well stop producing cards or make higher AA/AF levels for the people that care about that stuff.

Yeah right. Nvidia payed game developers money. In the end it's the game developers. Nvidia can't pay every single game developer who get more money on console game sales.

The logic is simple. Gamers buy hardware to play games. No games means no hardware for ATI/Nvidia. Sure there are the people that upgrade just because they want to but that isn't the majority. Nvidia knows there are no games which is why they are pushing GPGPU. They also admitted current cards can max out most games at high resolutions easily since they are just console ports.

There is no logic in your post. No game no hardware? What rubbish. Long as PC exist there will always be games for it or other gpu companies who would happily replace ATI or Nvidia if both go under.

Why would you point to the middle man who pay these game developers money and say they are the ones who has the power to change how PC games are developed. Ultimately it's the developers who has the "real" power. This has been witnessed in the past with console wars..

Only way Nvidia or ATI can change how the game develops for PC is to pay game developers like ATI did with dirt 2 or if PC game sales are more than these console game sales which isn't going to change any time soon. As game developers get way more money on console game sales.

That's why I like the idea of SSAA, angle dependent AF, eyefinity, physx, havok, etc... It differentiates between PC vs consoles. dx11 will eventually catch on but it always take time as games need time to develop before a GPU is released.

 

[videogames101]

Originally posted by: SonicIce
I just wish Rollo was still here for all this

I do miss the massive spin and FUD...

I'm an ATI fanboy, and I still miss Rollo. Video was just so much more fun to discuss with him around...

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
there is no benefit to playing possum at this point unless they really have nothing.

Agreed.

You can definitely start the timer on this one, once AMD tipped their hand the dead silence from NV can only mean product isn't ready (naturally) and people are probably putting in the super long hours and days trying to speed up the rollout by a day, a week, whatever they can get at this point.

Time is now money.

 

[Stoneburner]

I know speculation is fun but eventually we'll all learn the truth.

BTW, what exactly is the launch schedule for gt300?

 

[TurtleCrusher]

Truth is, everybody needs nVidia to pop out with the GT300 line as soon as possible. It also needs to dominate.

Prices on the 5870 are still too high for me. Actually, way too high. I'm not settling for less on the 58xx vs GT3xx series. I'll get the cheaper of the card once both are out on the market. Which probably means ATI again. And that's unfortunate, as the video card that brought the most innovation and power (to me personally) was my 8800GTS 320mb. That was one powerful card for its time. :sigh:

 

[ronnn]

Really all I think all this means is Nvidia has some fud guys in pr and they are just doing their job. Sometimes their pr strategy bites them, but I don't think this has any relationship to when exactly new cards will launch.

 

[Warren21]

Originally posted by: Scholzpdx
I'll get the cheaper of the card once both are out on the market. Which probably means ATI again. And that's unfortunate, as the video card that brought the most innovation and power (to me personally) was my 8800GTS 320mb. That was one powerful card for its time. :sigh:

This doesn't make any logical sense. You'd be sad if you 'had' to get a 5xxx card instead of GT3xx-based card because you enjoyed your 8800 GTS 320 so much?

What does the 8800's supposed innovation and past price/performance have to do with the relative innovation and price/performance of either RV870 or GT300? The Radeon 9500 Pro's were very powerful and fully featured for their time and price as well. It's also totally irrelevant.

Each team brings innovation and cost savings to the table, they each deserve kudos no matter if your pixels are green or red.

All I sense is from the above is bias... Which is fine, just don't hide it.

***
More on topic:

I agree I'd like to see more info from nV than just stone throwing and FUD-inspired questions. This isn't a response typical of their undeniable performance leadership we've seen in the past few years.

 

[DefRef]

Yawn... Gee, is it "ATI fanboys squealing like a Miley Cyrus audience over how their beloved Red company will trounce the Green team" time again?

Listen, kids, ATI put out a new card first and nVidia will have one coming later. There are two ways this can be spun:

1. The ATI fanboy way - "HA-HA! nVidia is crapping themselves because the new ATI 59000000000000000000000HDROFLCOPTERZOMGBBQ is teh fastester and since they aren't rushing to announce their GTX300 cards, it can only mean one thing - they got NUTHIN!!! Bwahahahahahaha!!!"

B. The sane person way - "ATI has unveiled their new card and it's quite impressive. However, now nVidia knows exactly where the price/power bar is set and could respond with something that smokes ATI's offering and offer gamers a better value. Since ATI has nothing to retaliate with for at least a year, those early sales will be pretty much it."

IF nVidia matches and/or exceeds what ATI has - pretty likely since, other than the 9700 vs. 5800 days, nVidia's had ATI's number for a decade - then I wonder how many people whooping it up now will become whiners that they got "stuck" with a slow card? Heh.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

AMD does not care about the ultimate performance crown. That's not where the money is necessarily. It's all about price/performance, and it's quite clear that they have done very well in that sector of the market.

The 5870 is no exception. I have no doubt Nvidia will likely release a card that bests the 5870, but at what cost? What will its power consumption numbers be? How monstrous a card will it have to be?

 

[Yukmouth]

Short of people that game at retarded high resolutions, I don't really see anyone loosing any sleep over when NVidia will counter. I think you're all forgetting the market is not pressed for such performance like it was in the 9700pro days ... performance before the 9700pro was crap on both sides and a next gen product was NEEDED imo.

... you can get near top teir performance at a very small price these days. Why jump the gun on sales you might be missing out on when people realize they don't need a $400 gaming card?

ATI got a head start, nVidia is not going anywhere and they've done nothing but compete or beat. Let the chips fall.

 

[mmnno]

Originally posted by: DefRef
Yawn... Gee, is it "ATI fanboys squealing like a Miley Cyrus audience over how their beloved Red company will trounce the Green team" time again?

Listen, kids, ATI put out a new card first and nVidia will have one coming later. There are two ways this can be spun:

1. The ATI fanboy way - "HA-HA! nVidia is crapping themselves because the new ATI 59000000000000000000000HDROFLCOPTERZOMGBBQ is teh fastester and since they aren't rushing to announce their GTX300 cards, it can only mean one thing - they got NUTHIN!!! Bwahahahahahaha!!!"

B. The sane person way - "ATI has unveiled their new card and it's quite impressive. However, now nVidia knows exactly where the price/power bar is set and could respond with something that smokes ATI's offering and offer gamers a better value. Since ATI has nothing to retaliate with for at least a year, those early sales will be pretty much it."

IF nVidia matches and/or exceeds what ATI has - pretty likely since, other than the 9700 vs. 5800 days, nVidia's had ATI's number for a decade - then I wonder how many people whooping it up now will become whiners that they got "stuck" with a slow card? Heh.

Thinking more logically, nVidia probably will not let ATi beat them in value. They will either release a more powerful card at a higher price, which enthusiasts will be happy to pay if it is reasonable, or they will release a competitive card and force ATi to cut prices.

The only way nVidia can disappoint is if they release a competitive card at a higher price, thinking that features like PhysX and CUDA give them pricing power. That would suck but I suspect ATi might cut prices anyway, so I'm confident that waiting will bring better deals.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: DefRef
Yawn... Gee, is it "ATI fanboys squealing like a Miley Cyrus audience over how their beloved Red company will trounce the Green team" time again?

Listen, kids, ATI put out a new card first and nVidia will have one coming later. There are two ways this can be spun:

1. The ATI fanboy way - "HA-HA! nVidia is crapping themselves because the new ATI 59000000000000000000000HDROFLCOPTERZOMGBBQ is teh fastester and since they aren't rushing to announce their GTX300 cards, it can only mean one thing - they got NUTHIN!!! Bwahahahahahaha!!!"

B. The sane person way - "ATI has unveiled their new card and it's quite impressive. However, now nVidia knows exactly where the price/power bar is set and could respond with something that smokes ATI's offering and offer gamers a better value. Since ATI has nothing to retaliate with for at least a year, those early sales will be pretty much it."

IF nVidia matches and/or exceeds what ATI has - pretty likely since, other than the 9700 vs. 5800 days, nVidia's had ATI's number for a decade - then I wonder how many people whooping it up now will become whiners that they got "stuck" with a slow card? Heh.

I see the nVidia fanboy has arrived.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: DefRef
Since ATI has nothing to retaliate with for at least a year[/i]

That may not be necessarily true...they could do something similar to the 4890 and release an even more competitive card.