AMD responds to "tough" questions from nVidia

[thilanliyan]

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/...0_questions/index.html
http://vr-zone.com/articles/am...dia/7716.html?doc=7716

This was my favourite bit:
"Aren't they punishing PC gamers by pushing out the schedule of PC titles such as Dirt 2 in order to support DX11?

Proprietary standards punish gamers, not industry standards like DirectX11. Why is NVIDIA punishing gamers by putting in proprietary and closed standards like PhysX in games? "

Damn I wish there were more questions from nVidia.

 

[SunnyD]

Nvidia: But, but... PhysX isn't closed or proprietary!

 

[OCGuy]

That would almost make sense, if nV wasnt coming out with DX11 hardware themselves in the next few months.

In fact, by the time any decent game that even uses DX11 is on the shelves, nV will have G300.


So basically, I am not following this.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: OCguy
So basically, I am not following this.

Not following what? nV's stance?

 

[SunnyD]

Personally, with all the rush-to-market crap shovelware that publishers are putting out these days in order to pad their bottom line faster, I'm happy to see a software company taking their time to include features that will make their title even better. The fact that the SOFTWARE DEVELOPER is the one that agreed to this means AMD has no reason to be held accountable for any delay.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: OCguy
So basically, I am not following this.

Not following what? nV's stance?

Exactly. Is AMD actually pushing the release of DX11 games to try and get them out before G300 hits, so people think "Oh, this is why I need to buy 5XXX right now! Dirt 2!"? If so, it is a valid question.

 

[alyarb]

it would force nvidia to either say "yes we suck and we're trying to get to dx11 as fast as we can," or they could say "dx11 sucks, you can keep it." either way, they will walk over hot coals to avoid that kind of question or anything that could lead to it.


oh wait, it's in the article. point being, nvidia can rely on nothing but ridiculous statements and pseudo sophistry until they have new cards out, in volume. if they could give us a demo or something, that might inspire a little interest too, but they obviously can't even come up with a demo (they definitely would have by now if they could).

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: OCguy
Exactly. Is AMD actually pushing the release of DX11 games to try and get them out before G300 hits, so people think "Oh, this is why I need to buy 5XXX right now! Dirt 2!"? If so, it is a valid question.

No I think the release of Dirt2 on PC has been delayed (not pulled forward) to include DX11 (it's already out for consoles)...but it's the same thing that happened with Arkham Asylum and PhysX so nV's statement is a bit ridiculous in that sense.

 

[bryanW1995]

those questions concern me greatly.

What I'm expecting/hoping to hear from nvidia is the following:

"Our new dx11 cards (gt300) will be out directly. They will kick the shit out of 5xxx. 5870 will be $150 by the time we're done leaking benchmarks this week."

What I actually heard was:

"We don't know when gt300 will be released. 5xxx is kicking our ass, so we're going to throw up more physix smoke and mirrors. We might not even beat 5870 as everyone expects. Think nv30 vs 9700 pro. By the way, are you guys hiring?"


NOW is the time for nvidia to show their hand. ATI can't easily change their launch products. Nvidia should be raining all over ati's parade right now. What nvidia has shown us is that gt300 is very late and/or 5xxx is going to be more competitive than many of us thought.

 

[HurleyBird]

I agree, Nvidia's stance makes it look like they have an extremely weak hand. If I was sure GT300 was launching before the end of the year I might have held back on buying a HD 5870, but nothing they've said has given me the slightest confidence that they are executing. On the other hand, Nvidia may be playing possum, spreading disinformation (yield rumors and such), and preparing to launch GT300 shortly as a kind of payback for ATI botching up their GTX 280/260 launch. My gut tells me that Nvidia's cards are way behind schedule, but there's a chance that the opposite is also true.

 

[WaitingForNehalem]

Why is AMD focusing so much on DX11 when most games are on DX9 console ports?

This is the problem! Do something about it. I'm sure the two leaders in GPU manufacturing can change this.

 

[bryanW1995]

the problem is that up until 5xxx launch nvidia could have been "playing possum" because they wanted ati to show their hand. that would have been a very good strategy if nvidia had an imminent release of a badass gt300 card. However, if that was really the case then nvidia's correct strategy today would be to leak the shit out of benchmarks, show off working cards to key websites, etc etc; basically, they would have trashed ati's party. By offering up lame criticisms of early dx11 adoption and physix comments, they have shown that they almost certainly have no hand at all to show and are just waiting/hoping at this point. This reminds me of the original phenom launch a couple years ago. The longer we go with no news the worse things will get, until eventually they might just decide to launch with whatever they have lying around to stop the bleeding.

Of course, nvidia also somehow managed to keep a 2/3 market share with mostly g92 parts for the past year, so they might just decide to keep trucking along with the status quo for another year or so...

 

[waffleironhead]

Originally posted by: WaitingForNehalem

Why is AMD focusing so much on DX11 when most games are on DX9 console ports?

This is the problem! Do something about it. I'm sure the two leaders in GPU manufacturing can change this.

I keep seeing people say this, but which games are you referring to?

 

[MrK6]

I read this before. Wow, NVIDIA really has nothing. I guess that makes me even happier that I got my 5870 .

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
the problem is that up until 5xxx launch nvidia could have been "playing possum" because they wanted ati to show their hand. that would have been a very good strategy if nvidia had an imminent release of a badass gt300 card. However, if that was really the case then nvidia's correct strategy today would be to leak the shit out of benchmarks, show off working cards to key websites, etc etc; basically, they would have trashed ati's party. By offering up lame criticisms of early dx11 adoption and physix comments, they have shown that they almost certainly have no hand at all to show and are just waiting/hoping at this point. This reminds me of the original phenom launch a couple years ago. The longer we go with no news the worse things will get, until eventually they might just decide to launch with whatever they have lying around to stop the bleeding.

Of course, nvidia also somehow managed to keep a 2/3 market share with mostly g92 parts for the past year, so they might just decide to keep trucking along with the status quo for another year or so...

Agreed 100%. If Nvidia was close to releasing a monster performer, now is the time for them to let information out to slow down 5870 sales and ruin any positive buzz the 58x0 cards have created.

I don't think Nvidia has anything to gain by playing possum at this point. The 58x0 is out, people are buying it. The way I see it Nvidia has two options, drop prices of their current higher end cards to steal sales from the 58x0, or start dropping GT300 info to steal AMD's thunder.

This is really starting to remind me of the R600... though it's still early. I guess we'll have to wait and see how it plays out.

 

[jimhsu]

Again, my belief is that Nvidia has something that about can beat 5870 slightly in a single card benchmark, but it is either a) so low yield or b) so expensive that they'll be laughed out of the price/performance contest if leaked. So logically, they are biding their time until a DX11 title actually gets released.

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

Interesting, this certainly makes the 5870 more attractive ^^ After so many successful launches by Nvidia I dont think anyone is expecting a FX/R600 kind of flop... Well at least I WASNT, until I read this, now Im not sure

Its too much FUD

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: jimhsu
Again, my belief is that Nvidia has something that about can beat 5870 slightly in a single card benchmark, but it is either a) so low yield or b) so expensive that they'll be laughed out of the price/performance contest if leaked. So logically, they are biding their time until a DX11 title actually gets released.

In the mean time, people who are interested in buying next gen parts are gobbling up AMD parts (assuming they can find them) since Nvidia is silent on when their part will be out, how it will perform, what the price will be, etc. If Nvidia has something, this is the time to spill the beans.

Imagine Nvidia issuing a press release with benches showing their part being 20% faster, stating that prices will be competitive, and that the part will be out in time for Win7. AMD sales of the 58x0 cards would slow to a crawl as people would wait to upgrade.

I truely think Nvidia would have said something if they could have.

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
those questions concern me greatly.

What I'm expecting/hoping to hear from nvidia is the following:

"Our new dx11 cards (gt300) will be out directly. They will kick the shit out of 5xxx. 5870 will be $150 by the time we're done leaking benchmarks this week."

What I actually heard was:

"We don't know when gt300 will be released. 5xxx is kicking our ass, so we're going to throw up more physix smoke and mirrors. We might not even beat 5870 as everyone expects. Think nv30 vs 9700 pro. By the way, are you guys hiring?"


NOW is the time for nvidia to show their hand. ATI can't easily change their launch products. Nvidia should be raining all over ati's parade right now. What nvidia has shown us is that gt300 is very late and/or 5xxx is going to be more competitive than many of us thought.

Holy shit.. I laughed out loud.

 

[WaitingForNehalem]

Originally posted by: waffleironhead

Originally posted by: WaitingForNehalem

Why is AMD focusing so much on DX11 when most games are on DX9 console ports?

This is the problem! Do something about it. I'm sure the two leaders in GPU manufacturing can change this.

I keep seeing people say this, but which games are you referring to?

Almost every game released after the Xbox 360 came out. How could you not see that most game are either ports or multi-platform that don't advantage of the PC. Haven't you noticed almost every company is developing for consoles. Id, Valve, Crytek, Epic, Irrational, Bethesda and more companies now base their games around the Xbox 360. Why do you think Valve is still using the Source engine?

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: WaitingForNehalem

Why is AMD focusing so much on DX11 when most games are on DX9 console ports?

This is the problem! Do something about it. I'm sure the two leaders in GPU manufacturing can change this.

The game developers have that power not the hardware manufacturers.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: SlowSpyder

Originally posted by: jimhsu
Again, my belief is that Nvidia has something that about can beat 5870 slightly in a single card benchmark, but it is either a) so low yield or b) so expensive that they'll be laughed out of the price/performance contest if leaked. So logically, they are biding their time until a DX11 title actually gets released.

In the mean time, people who are interested in buying next gen parts are gobbling up AMD parts (assuming they can find them) since Nvidia is silent on when their part will be out, how it will perform, what the price will be, etc. If Nvidia has something, this is the time to spill the beans.

Imagine Nvidia issuing a press release with benches showing their part being 20% faster, stating that prices will be competitive, and that the part will be out in time for Win7. AMD sales of the 58x0 cards would slow to a crawl as people would wait to upgrade.

I truely think Nvidia would have said something if they could have.

I guess we'll have to wait to see sales numbers to prove your theory correct.

 

[nyker96]

Originally posted by: SlowSpyder

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
the problem is that up until 5xxx launch nvidia could have been "playing possum" because they wanted ati to show their hand. that would have been a very good strategy if nvidia had an imminent release of a badass gt300 card. However, if that was really the case then nvidia's correct strategy today would be to leak the shit out of benchmarks, show off working cards to key websites, etc etc; basically, they would have trashed ati's party. By offering up lame criticisms of early dx11 adoption and physix comments, they have shown that they almost certainly have no hand at all to show and are just waiting/hoping at this point. This reminds me of the original phenom launch a couple years ago. The longer we go with no news the worse things will get, until eventually they might just decide to launch with whatever they have lying around to stop the bleeding.

Of course, nvidia also somehow managed to keep a 2/3 market share with mostly g92 parts for the past year, so they might just decide to keep trucking along with the status quo for another year or so...

Agreed 100%. If Nvidia was close to releasing a monster performer, now is the time for them to let information out to slow down 5870 sales and ruin any positive buzz the 58x0 cards have created.

I don't think Nvidia has anything to gain by playing possum at this point. The 58x0 is out, people are buying it. The way I see it Nvidia has two options, drop prices of their current higher end cards to steal sales from the 58x0, or start dropping GT300 info to steal AMD's thunder.

This is really starting to remind me of the R600... though it's still early. I guess we'll have to wait and see how it plays out.

me three on this comment. actually the current rumor is that the 420mm chip NV is making to be the gt300 is having some production problems. so their PR department has to take charge and put down any rival's dx11 parts until theirs get sort out. this is the same situation with dx10.1 parts. And I have no doubt when gt300 arrives dx11 parts will be toted as the best ever happened for games by the NV crowd but until then it's "completely useless". AnyHuu all this just marketing, no need to pay too much attention to. as a consumer, I just want NV to get a decent gt300 out early next year to put some pressure in the dx11 segment to drive down the price.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: SlowSpyder

Originally posted by: jimhsu
Again, my belief is that Nvidia has something that about can beat 5870 slightly in a single card benchmark, but it is either a) so low yield or b) so expensive that they'll be laughed out of the price/performance contest if leaked. So logically, they are biding their time until a DX11 title actually gets released.

In the mean time, people who are interested in buying next gen parts are gobbling up AMD parts (assuming they can find them) since Nvidia is silent on when their part will be out, how it will perform, what the price will be, etc. If Nvidia has something, this is the time to spill the beans.

Imagine Nvidia issuing a press release with benches showing their part being 20% faster, stating that prices will be competitive, and that the part will be out in time for Win7. AMD sales of the 58x0 cards would slow to a crawl as people would wait to upgrade.

I truely think Nvidia would have said something if they could have.

I guess we'll have to wait to see sales numbers to prove your theory correct.

I've guessed all along that Nvidia will have the part out sometime towards the end of the year. Again guessing here, but I think they are still working on the GT300 so they really just don't have anything to show. Nowhere in the 'tough questions' did I see Nvidia sugest anything that would make me believe the GT300 is close. It had more of the 'oh shit, we're on the defensive' tone to it, trying to use smoke and mirrors to discredit the 5870. I guess they could be playing possum, but I just don't see what the benefit would be at this point.

 

[bryanW1995]

naw, the best amd can hope to achieve is a 36/63 split or so... sheeple will buy pieces of crap as long as they have an intel or nvidia logo on them. I wonder what they'll do when larrabee comes out, talk about confusion!