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AMD Raven Ridge 'Zen APU' Thread

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I can't believe people are getting so bent out of shape because one manufacturer having optional ram configurations and one of them being single channel.

There will be multiple manufacturers, there will be multiple configurations, there will be reviews, etc... This is minutia.
 
PeterScott said:
I can't believe people are getting so bent out of shape because one manufacturer having optional ram configurations and one of them being single channel.

There will be multiple manufacturers, there will be multiple configurations, there will be reviews, etc... This is minutia.
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Empty quoting is in poor taste, but my thoughts exactly.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
 
Spartak said:
here you can see the AMD 2700U Android vs Windows: http://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/search?utf8=✓&q=AMD+Ryzen+7+2700U+

Single core score is 3495 on Windows (seems in line with Ryzen scores) vs 4451/4323 on Android. That's about 25% performance difference cross platform. Makes me wonder how much further optimised iOS is. Wouldn't be surprised if that platform is optimised another 20% vs Android, if not more. Unfortunately we cannot compare, but it makes all those "A11 IPC outperforms Kaby Lake" claims rather suspicious.
Click to expand...

That is exactly what I wanted to post. There is no benchmark you can use to compare cross-platform. Too many pitfalls.
 
Or just buy an extra DIMM of RAM. Your average user isn't going to be graphically taxing the hell out of an ultralight system. It will display web sites, Netflix, and documents fine.

If it were for gaming, it wouldn't be an Envy, it would be an Omen. If it were for professionals, it would be an Elitebook. It's a mass market SKU, jeeze.
 
NewFatMike said:
Or just buy an extra DIMM of RAM. Your average user isn't going to be graphically taxing the hell out of an ultralight system. It will display web sites, Netflix, and documents fine.

If it were for gaming, it wouldn't be an Envy, it would be an Omen. If it were for professionals, it would be an Elitebook. It's a mass market SKU, jeeze.
Click to expand...

Have you ever tried upgrading these ultrabooks? It's a night mare.

Also if you are not doing 3D stuff on an RR, why would you ever buy it? Save the money and buy cheapest i3 based laptop.
 
PeterScott said:
I can't believe people are getting so bent out of shape because one manufacturer having optional ram configurations and one of them being single channel
Click to expand...

I can. It was the same damn thing with Kaveri and Carrizo.

This is minutia.
Click to expand...

Ultimately, AMD is selling the idea of the APU as an alternative to a mobile CPU + mobile GPU with the understanding that there are power savings to be had from reducing redundancy. Their entire idea falls short when they allow deliberate misconfiguration of the model.
 
DrMrLordX said:
I can. It was the same damn thing with Kaveri and Carrizo.



Ultimately, AMD is selling the idea of the APU as an alternative to a mobile CPU + mobile GPU with the understanding that there are power savings to be had from reducing redundancy. Their entire idea falls short when they allow deliberate misconfiguration of the model.
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The problem is that AMD has no power here. They can't force the manufacturers to use dual channel memory.

As that one Anandtech article explained, dual channel memory is expensive. Since AMD is seen as the value offering compared to Intel, they don't want to configure AMD laptops with expensive dual channel memory when people see it as a budget option.

I do think RR might be a bit different because preliminary benchmarks show that it performs pretty well, so perhaps they will not want to hobble it with single channel memory. But that will still only happen at the higher end.
 
Ancalagon44 said:
Since AMD is seen as the value offering compared to Intel, they don't want to configure AMD laptops with expensive dual channel memory when people see it as a budget option.

I do think RR might be a bit different because preliminary benchmarks show that it performs pretty well, so perhaps they will not want to hobble it with single channel memory. But that will still only happen at the higher end.
Click to expand...
Once there are laptops that exploit all of Raven Ridge's performance potential it's up to the public demand and sales whether we'll see more supply of such.
 
Ancalagon44 said:
dual channel memory is expensive.
Click to expand...

Bollocks. Intrinsically, it is not. The only argument here is that such-and-such OEM doesn't want to stock two kinds of DIMMS for their products. The retail side shows no indication that 2x4Gb is any more expensive than 1x8Gb. Maybe it's logistically more expensive to keep 4 Gb SODIMMs on-hand, especially if/when the market grows beyond 8 Gb lappies. Said OEMs don't want to be left holding the bag.

Otherwise, dual channel isn't more expensive.

Most OEMs care nothing about the upgradability of their ultra-thin, ultra-cheap laptops/2-in-1s

The TDP/thermal design spec of the platform was drafted with full use of the IMC in dual-channel mode in minds, so it's generally impossible to argue that any OEM is going to go for single-channel because "it's too hard to cool a dual-channel configuration". Unless they're going off-spec. Which they might be.

Let's face it, single-channel RAM options are beyond ridiculous for AMD or Intel laptops. If AMD can make Raven Ridge work well enough that the end-user doesn't notice or care about the RAM screw-up then fine, good for AMD.
 
Ancalagon44 said:
The problem is that AMD has no power here. They can't force the manufacturers to use dual channel memory.

As that one Anandtech article explained, dual channel memory is expensive. Since AMD is seen as the value offering compared to Intel, they don't want to configure AMD laptops with expensive dual channel memory when people see it as a budget option.

I do think RR might be a bit different because preliminary benchmarks show that it performs pretty well, so perhaps they will not want to hobble it with single channel memory. But that will still only happen at the higher end.
Click to expand...
Unless you want to be perciewed as the cheap one for all eternity you have to adress the brand issue. Forcing dual channel on eg the 4 cores is a comparable cheap and robust way to do it. Its simple to enforce it in many way.
Who knows if amd ever get the chance again for 8 years. Now is the perfect time.
 
dark zero said:
If that is true... and considering that AMD is giving unoptimized drivers.... seems that Intel is now in real problems...
Click to expand...

AMDs old APUs already outperform Intels IGP. You are assigning an importance to GPU performance, that doesn't exist for the average laptop buyer.
 
PeterScott said:
AMDs old APUs already outperform Intels IGP. You are assigning an importance to GPU performance, that doesn't exist for the average laptop buyer.
Click to expand...

The average laptop buyer loves GPU performance. What average laptop buyer are we talking about here?
 
DrMrLordX said:
Let's face it, single-channel RAM options are beyond ridiculous for AMD or Intel laptops.
Click to expand...
Maybe it would be a good idea to take step back and chill too: this debate is quickly approaching the edges of nonsense land.

Yes, it would be important for reviews to test dual channel Zen APU configs, and yes, it would be preferable that a good portion of laptop SKUs came with dual channel configs. However, attaching such an overly significant importance to dual channel configs while overlooking the utility of 1 channel for later (or low cost) upgrades and the far greater importance of overall build quality is nonsensical.

Some of the people on this thread should try an experiment: go through the paces of choosing a laptop as a moderate cost main machine with no dGPU, see how important the RAM config is on your component priority list (compared to display, cooling, storage options, keyboard, weight, autonomy) and see if you find a use for those 1 channel models that are easy to upgrade and end up cheaper (with dual channel RAM and a SSD of your choice) than the OEM version with more RAM and a TLC based SSD.

You want something to worry about? The new Zen APU better come with excellent power management that coupled with good design wins results in excellent stamina. It better come with units that are easy to service, with decent 1080p displays, high battery capacity, good keyboards and metal chassis options.

Stop projecting our enthusiast skewed views and our gamer habits in this discussion. It will be the Zen cores that sell the Zen APUs, not the Vega ones. Vega will only be the cherry on top and will indeed be ever so sweet in dual channel config.
 
DrMrLordX said:
Bollocks. Intrinsically, it is not. The only argument here is that such-and-such OEM doesn't want to stock two kinds of DIMMS for their products. The retail side shows no indication that 2x4Gb is any more expensive than 1x8Gb. Maybe it's logistically more expensive to keep 4 Gb SODIMMs on-hand, especially if/when the market grows beyond 8 Gb lappies. Said OEMs don't want to be left holding the bag.

Otherwise, dual channel isn't more expensive.

Most OEMs care nothing about the upgradability of their ultra-thin, ultra-cheap laptops/2-in-1s

The TDP/thermal design spec of the platform was drafted with full use of the IMC in dual-channel mode in minds, so it's generally impossible to argue that any OEM is going to go for single-channel because "it's too hard to cool a dual-channel configuration". Unless they're going off-spec. Which they might be.

Let's face it, single-channel RAM options are beyond ridiculous for AMD or Intel laptops. If AMD can make Raven Ridge work well enough that the end-user doesn't notice or care about the RAM screw-up then fine, good for AMD.
Click to expand...

When they are trying to shave a few dollars off, it matters. A 2 x 4 GB kit is a little more expensive than a 1 x 8GB kit, and, it means that the laptop must have two DIMM slots. Lots of cost savings there.

Also - consumers do not know what single channel vs dual channel is. They know that 8GB is better than 4GB, but not that dual channel is better than single channel.

So, dual channel memory is something you cannot even market to the average consumer and it costs a few dollars. No wonder they cut it back. AMD might not have the force to be able to say that they do not support single channel memory on the higher end Raven Ridge chips, which is what they should do.
 
I do wonder if graphics performance doesn't matter a little bit more than it used to - not in terms of games but mobile phones and things have meant that people paying real premium prices kind of expect everything to be premium.
 
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