AMD Raven Ridge 'Zen APU' Thread

[crashtech]

Is it really that costly to put 2x4 in dual channel? Penny-pinching bastiches.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Retail, 2x4GB 260-pin DDR4-2400 SODIMM vs 1x8GB:

https://pcpartpicker.com/products/memory/#Z=8192001,8192002&sort=price&s=402400&t=15

$3?

 

[CatMerc]

It's a positive for most people, as there's a SODIMM slot left open for an upgrade whenever they wish. Most aren't concerned with the performance differences from dual channel memory. I'd personally buy a 1x8 over a 2x4 and just add in a second SODIMM myself.

Besides, in that spec sheet it was said to have up to 16GB of RAM, so there's probably the option to buy it fully kitted out. This isn't Bristol Ridge based on the poor old construction cores, and GCN with barely any bandwidth saving measures. Raven Ridge even with single channel memory, while absolutely not optimal, should still be mighty serviceable for the vast majority of people unlike the dumpster fire that was Bulldozer.

 

[Abwx]

Retail, 2x4GB 260-pin DDR4-2400 SODIMM vs 1x8GB:

https://pcpartpicker.com/products/memory/#Z=8192001,8192002&sort=price&s=402400&t=15

$3?

And how much to upgrade to 16GB when starting from 2x 4GB rather than 1x 8GB...?..

HP is not that stupid....

 

[krumme]

Single channel memory? Oh for goodness sake

Yeaa its stupid and amd shouldn't alow it. Idiots. They will never learn to drive a business.
I just bought a dirt cheap hp kbl i3 1080ips 14" for the small kid. In this dirt cheap machine there is 2x3GB. It makes it play minecraft well. Hell even plants vs zoombies.
How amd build a culture where they launch the most valuable brand and asset perhaps besides servers and then out of the gate allow such brand burning for perhaps 10usd is beyond my understanding.
How difficult is it to see hp and their own interest is not the same?

 

[AtenRa]

You reacting like this HP model will be the only RR laptop produced.

 

[prtskg]

This is just the beginning and it's already better than what used to grace AMD earlier. Laptop raven Ridge won't have much problem but what kind of frequency do you think desktop RR will reach seeing that current zen cpu have a hard time around 4GHz.

 

[krumme]

You reacting like this HP model will be the only RR laptop produced.

What a strawman. If Intel can protect their core i3 brand by forcing 2x3GB in dirt cheap HP plastic model amd should be able to do the same with such a stellar 4 core cpu that perhaps have like 250% gpu raw performance of the core i3/i5/i7.
There is no way around it. Amd dont know how to build a brand even when its right in front of them. All kinds of idiotic short term thinking gets in the way and this bmw 5 series laptop 280HP cpu comes on the streets in some versions on 11 inch tires. And people wouldnt even know and see what is wrong unlike the car. Drags the value and margin down on the entire line for 10 years to come.

 

[The Stilt]

Is it really that costly to put 2x4 in dual channel? Penny-pinching bastiches.

No, at the moment the cost should be almost exactly the same as for a 1x8GB module.

However, in 2017 I personally find such configuration completely useless.
To get a sufficient amount of RAM (16GB) you would need to purchase two (shipped with 2x4GB) memory modules instead of just one (shipped with 1x8GB).
When it comes to APUs having single channel DRAM is never an ideal configuration, but in certain cases it might be the more preferred configuration to purchase the system in. 16GB in a laptop may sound a lot, however keep in mind that the iGPU will allocate anything between 2-8GB as it's "dedicated" RAM.

The same utter failure we saw on Carrizo laptops, where some of the vendors recycled a single channel 2 DPC design motherboard designed for "Carrizo-L" (Mullins 16h 30-3Fh) for Carrizo (15h 60-6Fh) as well shouldn't happen thou.
Technically it is still possible to do (as it is on each and every other motherboard / design), but I highly doubt it will happen at least this time. Designing a single channel 2DPC motherboard versus the normal dual channel 1DPC board most commonly used on laptops
will make the motherboard design significantly more simple and cheaper, but despite that I'm quite sure that the right people got the message last time.

However as the ODMs in most cases will sell out their grandma without blinking if they can save a penny, I guess ultimately anything and everything is possible.
Never underestimate them in that regard, they do treat pennies like manhole covers.

 

[Ryzenenthusiast]

I got the information that AMD has a surprise today related with the title of this thread. I believe Videocardz.com will leak the launch slide deck prior to the unveiling of the products. Keep F5'ing if you are interested.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

It's a positive for most people, as there's a SODIMM slot left open for an upgrade whenever they wish. Most aren't concerned with the performance differences from dual channel memory. I'd personally buy a 1x8 over a 2x4 and just add in a second SODIMM myself.

AMDs previous DDR3 controller was hard hit when using single channel memory. To the point were my "old" FM2 board manual included the message: "when viewing full HD content, please use dual channel DDR3-1333 minimum". Says a lot right there.

I don't know how Ryzens DDR4 controller behaves in that regard. I haven't done any investigation. Intels is quite capable in single channel mode, so long as you don't game on the system.

Besides, in that spec sheet it was said to have up to 16GB of RAM, so there's probably the option to buy it fully kitted out. This isn't Bristol Ridge based on the poor old construction cores, and GCN with barely any bandwidth saving measures. Raven Ridge even with single channel memory, while absolutely not optimal, should still be mighty serviceable for the vast majority of people unlike the dumpster fire that was Bulldozer.

However, in 2017 I personally find such configuration completely useless.
To get a sufficient amount of RAM (16GB) you would need to purchase two (shipped with 2x4GB) memory modules instead of just one (shipped with 1x8GB).
When it comes to APUs having single channel DRAM is never an ideal configuration, but in certain cases it might be the more preferred configuration to purchase the system in. 16GB in a laptop may sound a lot, however keep in mind that the iGPU will allocate anything between 2-8GB as it's "dedicated" RAM.

While single channel on an APU is never optimal, you can usually get away with it for normal usage. I always overprovision memory a bit when using the IGP, but keep in mind the allocation is usually dynamic so it won't hog unneeded memory.

 

[The Stilt]

but keep in mind the allocation is usually dynamic so it won't hog unneeded memory.

At least on AMD APUs the "dedicated" RAM allocated for the iGPU won't be available for the system to use (regardless if the FB is empty or not).
So if you have 16GB of RAM installed and the FB size is set to 4G, then the maximum available RAM for the rest of the system is 12GB (regardless the utilization of the iGPU or it's FB).

 

[Insert_Nickname]

At least on AMD APUs the "dedicated" RAM allocated for the iGPU won't be available for the system to use (regardless if the FB is empty or not).
So if you have 16GB of RAM installed and the FB size is set to 4G, then the maximum available RAM for the rest of the system is 12GB (regardless the utilization of the iGPU or it's FB).

Yes, if you set the framebuffer manually. The default for Trinity/Richland* is "only" 768MB, but can expand to 2GB when needed. You can also set the BIOS to dedicate the entire 2GB entirely for the framebuffer. Or go the other way and only dedicate 256MB.

Also, when Windows starts, the driver takes over framebuffer memory management. I -think- it ignores the BIOS setting, unless you go above the default value, but I can't remember currently.

*I haven't played with anything newer.

 

[DrMrLordX]

It's a positive for most people, as there's a SODIMM slot left open for an upgrade whenever they wish.

I wonder how many laptop/notebook/2-in-1 buyers want to crack open the case to upgrade it? Much less have an authorized repair guy do it for them.

The sensible thing for HP to do is to sell 2x4 Gb on the low end and offer 2x8 Gb as an upgrade or in the mid/high-end spectrum. They should not be shipping single-channel RAM configurations for an iGPU-dependant product. I do not realistically think that any of their laptops - particularly low-end APU products - will support 4 SODIMMs at all. Though I guess I could be wrong there.

 

[krumme]

I wonder how many laptop/notebook/2-in-1 buyers want to crack open the case to upgrade it? Much less have an authorized repair guy do it for them.

The sensible thing for HP to do is to sell 2x4 Gb on the low end and offer 2x8 Gb as an upgrade or in the mid/high-end spectrum. They should not be shipping single-channel RAM configurations for an iGPU-dependant product. I do not realistically think that any of their laptops - particularly low-end APU products - will support 4 SODIMMs at all. Though I guess I could be wrong there.

The game is this.
First thing launch day is eg. notebookcheck and pclab.pl reviewing a single channel solution.
Thats how compettition is.
So amd dont come whining if this is the biggest part of the media. There is interest and business to protect.
Only allow and sell 2 channel prefrably 2666 for the first quarter. You dont have stock for anything more anyway.
And the idea to hurt consumers in the interest of a few dollars for the oem is obviously stupid but that might be to big a stretch to understand.

 

[nathanddrews]

The last several laptops I have worked on (HP/Acer/Lenovo KBL/SKL) have been much more time-consuming to access RAM slots than before, usually requiring removal of the optical drive and keyboard at a minimum. In years past, there was a simple panel to access RAM/HDD or a panel to remove the entire bottom, ensuring anyone could do it with a screwdriver.

Despite my protests, all my family and friends just buy whatever laptop is least expensive while looking the "sleekest". For the sake of my own sanity, I pray AMD pushes OEMs to enforce a dual-channel implementation.

 

[DrMrLordX]

HP has already proven that AMD isn't doing this successfully.

 

[piesquared]

No, HP hasn't proven anything. The only thing HP have proven is that they have a laptop that can be configured with a single RAM module.
Aside from that how many people think the conversation went something like this:

HP: We have laptops configured for dual channel.

AMD: NO! We only want our chips configured for single channel!

Really? I would think there are only a handful of people that actually believe this. I suspect others are merely attempting to spread FUD, and the majority have enough common sense to imagine that AMD is indeed pressing to have as many high performance dual channel configurations as possible. Now what would the result be of an AMD telling and ODM, "if you don't configure all of our hardware with dual channel RAM we will cut off supply".

 

[Arachnotronic]

Now what would the result be of an AMD telling and ODM, "if you don't configure all of our hardware with dual channel RAM we will cut off supply".

They would stop buying AMD chips for their designs.

 

[Qwertilot]

Or keep buying them but ignore it. AMD just don't have that sort of power!

 

[crashtech]

AMD could conceivably incentivize certain configurations, like dual channel.

 

[Abwx]

Most Bristol Ridge laptops can be found here, can someone point a single one that is actually single channel..?....

https://geizhals.de/?cat=nb&xf=9690_Bristol+Ridge

Look that some people are willfully insisting with this urban legend because it s not the first time that i did post this link...

 

[crashtech]

Most Bristol Ridge laptops can be found here, can someone point a single one that is actually single channel..?....

https://geizhals.de/?cat=nb&xf=9690_Bristol+Ridge

Look that some people are willfully insisting with this urban legend because it s not the first time that i did post this link...

Other participants are reacting to AtenRa's post:
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/amd-raven-ridge-zen-apu-thread.2479296/page-59#post-39134116

Also, it was easy to pick at least five single channel offerings out of the list you provided.

 

[Abwx]

Other participants are reacting to AtenRa's post:
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/amd-raven-ridge-zen-apu-thread.2479296/page-59#post-39134116

We dont even know the exacxt specs of this early laptop, en even then do you think thjat this 14mm thin laptop is the basis for all RR ridge future laptops.?..

Also, it was easy to pick at least five single channel offerings out of the list you provided.

A single RAM stick at stock doesnt mean that it s single channel, did you even check how much slots were present..?

And while we re at it why the Intel based plethora of "single" channels is never mentioned :

https://geizhals.de/?cat=nb&xf=9594_Kaby+Lake

https://geizhals.de/?cat=nb&xf=9594_Skylake

That s all "single" channel ad nauseam but, hey, it magically morph to dual channel by the virtue of the other side of said urban legend...

 

[crashtech]

We dont even know the exacxt specs of this early laptop, en even then do you think thjat this 14mm thin laptop is the basis for all RR ridge future laptops.?..

I'm not thinking OR saying that. Don't falsely accuse.

A single RAM stick at stock doesnt mean that it s single channel, did you even check how much slots were present..?

It doesn't matter if there are one, two, or a hundred RAM slots, if it is delivered with a single stick, it will be running in single channel mode, and will suffer accordingly. Most users don't upgrade RAM.

And while we re at it why the Intel based plethora of "single" channels is never mentioned :

https://geizhals.de/?cat=nb&xf=9594_Kaby+Lake

https://geizhals.de/?cat=nb&xf=9594_Skylake

That s all "single" channel ad nauseam but, hey, it magically morph to dual channel by the virtue of the other side of said urban legend...

This is a Raven Ridge thread, not an Intel thread. I'll leave it others to talk about how APUs have in the past been inordinately affected by RAM bandwidth limitations. I don't think this propensity has magically disappeared, so extra concern over memory configurations on APUs is warranted.

You seem to be laboring under the false impression that I am here to cast aspersions on these upcoming products, when I am merely lamenting indications that some of them won't be shown in their best light.