Review AMD Radeon VII review and availability thread

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Hitman928

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Availability
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As of the time of this post, In stock at newegg. (edit, and it's sold out).

Available straight from AMD.



Written Reviews
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Techspot
See post #2 for more

Video Reviews
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Hitman928

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You should watch that Der8uaer video. Second video I watched today (first being Gamer Nexus) that states changes in Wattman either A) fail to safe B) give outlandish results or C) barely change anything.

Wattman is reporting temps hitting 65K Celcius. Gamer Nexus got wattman to read 7K Ghz overclock. Wattman is bugged. Jayz2Cents/Gamer Nexus/Der8auer are all reporting issues with Wattman, and reporting AMD is aware of issues.

You can see in the Der8auer video raising power load 20% didn't affect power draw. The software is broken, AMD is aware of it.

Ok. . .

How does that apply to computerbase undervolting their card, seeing no performance decrease, but drastically reduced measured power from the wall? Do you think Wattman is making the gpu draw the missing power through the air or something?
 

railven

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Mar 25, 2010
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Ok. . .

How does that apply to computerbase undervolting their card, seeing no performance decrease, but drastically reduced measured power from the wall? Do you think Wattman is making the gpu draw the missing power through the air or something?

No, I'm saying if they're only using Wattman for reporting results, they should be wary.

If two other reviewers have gone on record saying Wattman is broken, not saving settings, causing driver/system corruption, and reaching out to AMD has revealed they are aware of the issues, you should take Wattman results are questionable.

I'm not sure what's going on with this product. I've read more reviews and watched more videos showing issues with Wattman than I've read/watched without.

Jayz2cent even hinted at him getting a second driver that fixed some of his issues. So it makes me wonder what drivers are being used if some places are reporting issues and some aren't.
 
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EXCellR8

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All out of stock anyway... but Wattman has always had issues, with nearly every single driver release.

This product just seems like a "balls out" approach to tie us over until something that's actually better is available from AMD; unfortunately it falls short anyway. Cut down the die size, cram in HBM2 because high profile consumers love big numbers, and nix the terrible blower design because it's always been trash. Also, there not being AIB models further indicates that partners aren't focusing on current offerings anyway and may be allocating resources for future Radeons but who knows?
 
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railven

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Yup. It's a lowest common denominator approach to binning.

If this is genuinely true, I feel this is not a good cost-saving measurement. If their products are getting criticized for their power consumption, it does more damage than good for the product's life in my eyes.

There are more "plug n play" people then there are "test every possible scenario" people.
 

Mopetar

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If this is genuinely true, I feel this is not a good cost-saving measurement. If their products are getting criticized for their power consumption, it does more damage than good for the product's life in my eyes.

There are more "plug n play" people then there are "test every possible scenario" people.

They're screwed either way. They can drop the voltage (and therefore the clocks) for the reference cards, but then they'll be behind in the benchmarks and get criticized for weak performance.

The end result is the same, only instead of potentially getting a card that can overclock really well, now you potentially get a card than can undervolt really well.

It's just a matter of what bars AMD wants to look best in, performance or power. Maybe they've done research to show that the average Joe cares more about the performance numbers and that most won't really bother to look at the power consumption.
 

railven

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Their power numbers are backed up by their noise measurements.

View attachment 3114
So either
A) Computerbase got a golden sample
B) got a different driver/software suite
C) they messed up their numbers.

Again, I'm seeing more people reporting issues than are not. So one of the 3 above has got to give. The only person I saw mention a different driver set that improved their experience, but didn't fix everything way Jay.

Reviews don't exist in a vacuum. WTB more reviews/data!
 

railven

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They're screwed either way. They can drop the voltage (and therefore the clocks) for the reference cards, but then they'll be behind in the benchmarks and get criticized for weak performance.

The end result is the same, only instead of potentially getting a card that can overclock really well, now you potentially get a card than can undervolt really well.

It's just a matter of what bars AMD wants to look best in, performance or power. Maybe they've done research to show that the average Joe cares more about the performance numbers and that most won't really bother to look at the power consumption.

I quickly think of HD 7970 and later HD 7970 Ghz Edition (or whatever it was called).

HD 7970 got a lot of praise for it's overhead overclocking potential. Future cards like RX 580 got slammed for being juiced to the moon and having little to no OC overhead. Which turned into the Undervolt saving grace.

It's being stuck between a rock and a hard place, but if I had to use the HD 7970 as one of the examples with performance left on the table, that card has a much favorable legacy.

AMD even double dipped with the GHz Edition card. Man, I'm starting to sound like Atenra now haha. "Give me a lower performance/power consumption Radeon 7 for less!, sell the faster ones for more!" haha.
 

Hitman928

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So either
A) Computerbase got a golden sample
B) got a different driver/software suite
C) they messed up their numbers.

Again, I'm seeing more people reporting issues than are not. So one of the 3 above has got to give. The only person I saw mention a different driver set that improved their experience, but didn't fix everything way Jay.

Reviews don't exist in a vacuum. WTB more reviews/data!

A) Highly unlikely to make the difference. A better binned chip doesn't make driver features start working. Unless there was a microcode update that only their GPU received (also unlikely), i don't think this is related.
B) Not likely. Review samples are either sent with the driver to use in the box, or (more often now) the reviewers are given a press only link to download the driver. It's possible there was an update to the initial review driver that smoothed things out but only computerbase listed the actual driver revision (gamersnexus and techspot did not as far as I can tell). So if there was an update, then why did the others having issues not install it?
C) Noise is a pretty hard one to mess up like this, especially when power readings correlate your findings as well as performance numbers (for the oc, they did see performance improve).

I would suggest

D) Software, especially on Windows, is difficult to get right across the vast hardware and software options of all possible users. Sometimes something as simple as having certain versions of Windows patches or having a sound card installed can break something you're trying to do with your device. It's quite possible that the driver is still in early stages of development with how it interacts with Windows and so there's a, "luck of the draw" type of scenario where sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't depending on the Windows environment.

No matter what the cause, hopefully it gets fixed soon for those who supported AMD with a day 1 purchase of their flagship gaming GPU. OG Vega changed how it handled API calls from Polaris and was pretty buggy at first too, but was by and large fixed after 1 - 2 months I'd say. We'll see how long it takes. I know at least a couple people on this forum purchased one so we'll have to see what their experiences are when they get the cards.
 

BigDaveX

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Jun 12, 2014
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Aren't games run in 32-Bit ? I remember reading something along the lines AMD owns lot of important 64 Bit Patents.
Maybe a few, but I would wager the vast majority are 64-bit nowadays, given that 32-bit apps can only address 2GB of RAM without resorting to tricks.
 

railven

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A) Highly unlikely to make the difference. A better binned chip doesn't make driver features start working. Unless there was a microcode update that only their GPU received (also unlikely), i don't think this is related.
I'm not even trying to argue possibilities. I'm trying to understand why 1 reviewer had such success when two other reviewers stated they couldn't even get Wattman to accept changes. So if it isn't a software issue, then it's a hardware issue. Again, I posted the Der8auer video because he clearly shows raising the power limit did nothing to power draw. I wish he showed his attempt at undervolting, but he reported essentially the same - it did nothing.
EDIT: Just want to point out that just about every reviewer I came across that got OC'ing to work successfully said it was through the Auto OC function, not manual tuning.
B) Not likely. Review samples are either sent with the driver to use in the box, or (more often now) the reviewers are given a press only link to download the driver. It's possible there was an update to the initial review driver that smoothed things out but only computerbase listed the actual driver revision (gamersnexus and techspot did not as far as I can tell). So if there was an update, then why did the others having issues not install it?
Jayz2Cents and GamerNexus but indicated they contacted AMD. AMD responded to both with similar responses (taking their story at face value). However, Jayz2cents stated he got a different driver to test. He didn't want to show the results since it wasn't the press driver but stated it had improved stability. I hope he goes into it with another video or someone else comments more if they got different drivers directly from AMD.
C) Noise is a pretty hard one to mess up like this, especially when power readings correlate your findings as well as performance numbers (for the oc, they did see performance improve).
We've seen lots of weird issues coming from the driver set in AMD. Instances where the clocks were wrong, the system timer was wrong, etc. To just instantly disregard a history of issues is kind of weird. We've seen timer issues result in higher clocks, higher scores, and NO changes to power or noise. And these issues were found in configurations that worked far better than what is being reported for these cards.

I would suggest

D) Software, especially on Windows, is difficult to get right across the vast hardware and software options of all possible users. Sometimes something as simple as having certain versions of Windows patches or having a sound card installed can break something you're trying to do with your device. It's quite possible that the driver is still in early stages of development with how it interacts with Windows and so there's a, "luck of the draw" type of scenario where sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't depending on the Windows environment.

Doesn't this sort of invalidate even your explanation? If software is capable of causing some of the issues being reported. Reading over the Computerbase review, they barely hint at ANY issues. I saw the same with Anandtech. Yet, just about every vblogger I watched today had a laundry list of issues. Issues that caused a lot of them to slap disclaimers on their videos along the lines of "We will test more games when better drivers are released" to "please check other sources to confirm our issues."

I try not to ever put pedigree on the table, but when a reviewer who's known for world records states they can't undervolt the card, it holds some weight to me.

No matter what the cause, hopefully it gets fixed soon for those who supported AMD with a day 1 purchase of their flagship gaming GPU. OG Vega changed how it handled API calls from Polaris and was pretty buggy at first too, but was by and large fixed after 1 - 2 months I'd say. We'll see how long it takes. I know at least a couple people on this forum purchased one so we'll have to see what their experiences are when they get the cards.

I'd love to see someone get a retail version for review. Interesting to see what end users will get, reviewers seem to be for most of the cases in the same place with some odd outliers. I won't write anything off, of course. I'll wait for more data. But as far as I'm concerned, under/over clock results should be taken with grains of salts. There is just too many inconsistencies.
 

linkgoron

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It's just a matter of what bars AMD wants to look best in, performance or power. Maybe they've done research to show that the average Joe cares more about the performance numbers and that most won't really bother to look at the power consumption.

While this is probably true, they're not even beating cards in the same price segment (i.e. 2080). They're losing on all fronts: price, performance and power usage. ComputerBase's results show huge improvements. They improved perf/watt by 33% (reduced power usage by 70 watts) with essentially the same performance (1% improvement)!

This reminds me of the TPU Vega 64 review, where they reduced the performance by 5%, but improved perf/watt by 34% or 3% for 31% improved perf/watt.
 

Hitman928

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We've seen lots of weird issues coming from the driver set in AMD. Instances where the clocks were wrong, the system timer was wrong, etc. To just instantly disregard a history of issues is kind of weird. We've seen timer issues result in higher clocks, higher scores, and NO changes to power or noise. And these issues were found in configurations that worked far better than what is being reported for these cards.

What are these timing issues? Do you mean system timer? That's a whole separate issue than drivers and still wouldn't explain the results of the computerbase's undervolt.

Doesn't this sort of invalidate even your explanation? If software is capable of causing some of the issues being reported. Reading over the Computerbase review, they barely hint at ANY issues. I saw the same with Anandtech. Yet, just about every vblogger I watched today had a laundry list of issues. Issues that caused a lot of them to slap disclaimers on their videos along the lines of "We will test more games when better drivers are released" to "please check other sources to confirm our issues."

This doesn't invalidate what I said at all, but is a symptom of what I'm trying to explain. It's perfectly possible for 3 people to have the same card and the same driver with varying experiences of how buggy it is or isn't due to a vast majority of variables present on a PC. Just because 1 reviewer had issues and 1 didn't doesn't invalidate either one's experience. Even if 10 reviewers had issues and 1 didn't, that doesn't invalidate the 1 experience either. Then you have to look at was the 1 undervolt actually working. All real world measurables say yes, it was working.

I try not to ever put pedigree on the table, but when a reviewer who's known for world records states they can't undervolt the card, it holds some weight to me.

Computerbase has an excellent pedigree as well.
 

ozzy702

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Computerbase.de cards undervolted really well.

Their undervolted card's volume is competitive with Nvidia:
View attachment 3105

Their undervolted card's Perf/watt is also better than the 2080, 1080ti and 1080:
View attachment 3108
I'm not sure how many cards would be stable with computerbase's settings, but I'll never get why AMD puts so much voltage in their cards.

So an undervolted card (that may or may not be 100% stable) on 7nm is on par with overvolted stock volts on 12nm and 16nm from NVIDIA. Pathetic.
 

railven

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What are these timing issues? Do you mean system timer? That's a whole separate issue than drivers and still wouldn't explain the results of the computerbase's undervolt.

This doesn't invalidate what I said at all, but is a symptom of what I'm trying to explain. It's perfectly possible for 3 people to have the same card and the same driver with varying experiences of how buggy it is or isn't due to a vast majority of variables present on a PC. Just because 1 reviewer had issues and 1 didn't doesn't invalidate either one's experience. Even if 10 reviewers had issues and 1 didn't, that doesn't invalidate the 1 experience either. Then you have to look at was the 1 undervolt actually working. All real world measurables say yes, it was working.



Computerbase has an excellent pedigree as well.

Outlier is outlier, will wait for more data. Driver updates going to be interesting for this product.

Browsing r/AMD, already "fine wine" posts. At least they got a sense of humor haha.
 

Arkaign

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Seems like they should have delayed this, or perhaps given away 50-100 of them to AMD diehards to test and get driver feedback from over a few weeks ahead of launch. It definitely is a wobbly launch with the lists of problems.

Hopefully progress is made quickly, these things are already sold out, so that means a lot of (so far) potentially problematic cards are in hands at the better part of a grand each.

I was expecting a somewhat unremarkable $700 improved Vega around 1080TiFE levels. This is most of that if you can fix the bugs. But I definitely wouldn't move from a Vega64/1080AIB or better to this by any stretch even for free as it stands.
 

Mr Evil

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Not much talk of availability so far. Here in the UK, the cheaper ones went in only a few hours. There are still some available from Scan at a slightly inflated £699. OCUK has a few left too, but only at a price-gouging £799. They had some Asus ones at that price which have now sold out, so some people seem to think that's a worthwhile price. I managed to snag one at the lower £649 earlier.
 
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Feld

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Outlier is outlier, will wait for more data. Driver updates going to be interesting for this product.

Browsing r/AMD, already "fine wine" posts. At least they got a sense of humor haha.
Legit Reviews is seeing significant reductions in power consumption from undervolting, but no performance increase (or even performance decreases) from overclocking either the GPU or the HBM. It seems the Radeon VII has a lot of undervolting potential but still needs a lot of driver work.

https://www.legitreviews.com/amd-radeon-vii-16gb-video-card-review_210489/14
 
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Mopetar

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I quickly think of HD 7970 and later HD 7970 Ghz Edition (or whatever it was called).

HD 7970 got a lot of praise for it's overhead overclocking potential. Future cards like RX 580 got slammed for being juiced to the moon and having little to no OC overhead. Which turned into the Undervolt saving grace.

That was a different situation. When the 7970 released, it was only $50 more than the GTX 580 and had much better performance than the cost differential. This meant that AMD could afford to leave performance on the table because they were already winning. It's the same thing the NVidia has been doing more recently where they leave plenty of room for overclocking.

However, NVidia was aware of the situation they were in and had made some changes to greatly increase their efficiency with Kepler, and since then have generally had a more efficient architecture than AMD, which has allowed them release products that output good numbers and still have some headroom if you want to push it further. AMD has to push their cards farther from the start just to maintain performance parity.

Navi will at least give AMD some breathing room because it's on a 7nm process, but they clearly need some major changes to their architecture if they want to be competitive in 2020 and beyond.
 

railven

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Legit Reviews is seeing significant reductions in power consumption from undervolting, but no performance increase (or even performance decreases) from overclocking either the GPU or the HBM. It seems the Radeon VII has a lot of undervolting potential but still needs a lot of driver work.

https://www.legitreviews.com/amd-radeon-vii-16gb-video-card-review_210489/14

With two sites reporting undervolting results, it is now a question of WTF happened to the software? I can recount 4-5 reviewers that said they couldn't get the think to undervolt, let alone overvolt. Wattman's got a lot of explaining to do!

Wonder if a week delay would have spared AMD all this headache. With no other software working with the thing and Wattman behaving oddly across the board of reviewers this is another "should have left it longer in the oven" scenarios.

With RTX getting a public lashing, I wonder if AMD saw this as a prime chance to take advantage of it. Sadly it's blowing up in their face.
 

railven

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That was a different situation. When the 7970 released, it was only $50 more than the GTX 580 and had much better performance than the cost differential. This meant that AMD could afford to leave performance on the table because they were already winning. It's the same thing the NVidia has been doing more recently where they leave plenty of room for overclocking.

However, NVidia was aware of the situation they were in and had made some changes to greatly increase their efficiency with Kepler, and since then have generally had a more efficient architecture than AMD, which has allowed them release products that output good numbers and still have some headroom if you want to push it further. AMD has to push their cards farther from the start just to maintain performance parity.

Navi will at least give AMD some breathing room because it's on a 7nm process, but they clearly need some major changes to their architecture if they want to be competitive in 2020 and beyond.

Oh, definitely, I'm aware they are separate situations, but back then AMD and NV were also a little more competitive. Now AMD barely has a leg to stand on. They can't seem to put out something worth fighting NV's top card. So why bother trying to squeeze 1-5% at the expense of 10-20% more power? There has to be some balance. In the days of old, the differences were what made the balance.

"Sure, AMD is slower, but it uses less power and cost less."
"Sure AMD is slower, but it cost less."
"Sure AMD is slower, but...well, it's just slower now."

I was deep in camp red when the first one was almost always true. I started to lose confidence as AMD started to try to increase their margins (of course I'm not against that, I understand they need monies yo) but did so at the expense of the other two things I looked at cards during the time. Since I use a custom loop now, noise doesn't affect me at all. Now when looking at Radeon 7 vs GTX 1080 Ti/RTX 2080, for me it's an easy choice. Fine Wine be damned!
 
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