AMD Radeon RAMDISK

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,118
58
91
You use the ramdisk as a drive the same as if you had installed an extra hard drive. Install apps to it, copy files to it, etc.
 

Ferzerp

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,438
107
106
Giving up RAM (that would be used as disk cache)

To make a RAM drive (that will then be used as disk cache)

:confused:


Readyboost was intended as a way to help systems with low amounts of ram (and thus no disk cache) be less slow by caching HD data to a medium with faster access times. It only helps systems that don't have enough memory to have a healthy sized drive cache stored in memory. You're looking to reduce that, and add the extra layers of RAM drive and readyboost to accomplish the same thing.

It's like plugging a motor in to the wall and driving a generator. Sure, power will come out, but why not just plug directly in to the outlet to begin with.
 
Last edited:

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,118
58
91
I'm a long time ramdisk user, and not just for benchmarking purposes.

What I came to conclude is that a ramdisk is just not very useful, nor convenient, in the modern computing age. Even with my superspeed ramdisk which makes an image of the ramdrive's contents at time of shutdown and then restores it when the system is booted, the problem of course always came whenever the system didn't cleanly or properly shutdown.

Image not stored, ramdrive contents hosed.

My conclusion was that what is really needed is a program very much like a ramdrive in which the user specifies a maximum amount of ram to be reserved for the ramdrive but instead of being a ramdrive it really is just a cache drive.

The user doesn't actually interact with the drive as if it were a drive. Instead we install all our apps/data/etc to the regular drive and then using the "ramcache" app we look at the harddrive's contents in a file explorer viewpoint and we click check boxes next to folders that we want the ramcache app to store in the ram.

Rather than letting some application think it knows best, which is what microsofts superfetch did for you, we manually specify we want that folder containing all the texture files to be cached to ram as quickly as can be managed in the background once the computer boots.

Then if anything calls for the files the ramcache programs directs it to the cached version stored in the ram and not to the file as it is stored on the harddrive.

Likewise if the contents are changed in the ram then in background the system would transparently update the file on the hardrive in due course. The same as happens when we use thumbdrives and we have windows manage the drive in performance mode instead of portable mode (we just tell it to eject the drive and then windows commits all the changes before doing so, have the ramcache setup the same way).

Similar to how the ram on a spindle drive works as a buffer for writes, and as a prefetcher for reads. Only we'd use the computer's ram to do it a little more pointedly by earmarking specific folders we want to have cached and updated/mirrored on the physical drive.

I would use that.
 

guskline

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2006
5,338
476
126
From what I read about the dire financial straits of AMD how can you blame them from remarketing someone elses product? Sad but apparently necessary.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
From what I read about the dire financial straits of AMD how can you blame them from remarketing someone elses product? Sad but apparently necessary.

Because its not their target area. Right now its the headless chicken approach.
 

Zstream

Diamond Member
Oct 24, 2005
3,396
277
136
Actually this may not be that bad in a VDI world (golden image). I'll have to give it a try.
 

snakefist

Banned
Dec 23, 2012
4
1
0
And that slide is so full of BS. They also forgot to test against an SSD. It would yield about the same results as a RAMDisk due to the compression and package techniques used in games and apps. You are CPU limited way before storage speed limited. And will be so as long as HDs are around.

you CAN'T be serious??? about bolded part? HDD is, like, bottleneck for last 20 years...

now, i was there those 20+ (oh, hell, 25+) years - and know exactly what ram disk is - so no need for clarification for me

still, i was kinda intrigued when saw AMD utilizing ram disks, and even more when own SSD line is announced.

it *could* turn to be total BS (as you stated), but undeniable fact is that current windows memory usage/caching can withstand loads of improvements

for instance:
1) say, it's wise to use multiple drives for pagefile. as the matter of fact, i use this setup. when the paging occur, what drive is used? it *should* be the one which is idling at this exact moment, as using system or application needing paging is actually worsening things. is it so? i mean, does windows take care about this? i have no definitive answer - if you do, i'll admit my mistake immediatelly
2) cache - very nice - until it conflicts with available memory or pagefile. also, it could slow down memory intensive procesess
3) files being cached - a everlasting question, i would much prefer to be able to select (or at least remove) files that should/shouldn't be cached, like, ever - but i'm sure lots of cache is occupied exactly with this kind of crap
4) system boot - a load of files is read from disk(s) - in "s" lives the devil - if the process could be divided to utilize more than one hdd, or ssd/ramdisk it sure can be faster

and the ssd/ramdisk (grouped together as secondary, faster storage) does NOT contain what you need, they contain what you put/installed on them - conflicts can and do happen

whole amd ramdisk/ssd *could* improve things with memory/pagefile/cache management, a chronic windows problem, IF executed right

now, i'm not advocating that it will happen, it may be just a cheap marketing trick, but there is chance of hope that it can be executed rightly, and lead to noticeable improvements in responsiveness

of course, it should have been done by microsoft so many years ago, but what to say about company that needs 20 years to fix "file copy" glitch? no 3rd party software can do it as well as MS could, but i think all will agree that cache/pagefile management is currently crap

ramdisk has a number of disadvantages - like, i want to play diablo3, but DON'T need (or even want) to have game install it on ramdrive - i just want to have extracted mpq to ramdisk (happens all the time, and uses lot less space than whole game) - i doubt this software makes that possible. but it would be so COOL if it would.

finally, i'm not advocating anyone to buy amd memory or use ramdisk - do it on your own will, but i DO claim that, if executed right, whole ssd/ramdisk system, paired with software, COULD make a difference. not decisive one, but noticeable

as for current ramdisks and their state - they are just that, a 25+ year old idea, from the time when floppy disk had to be made faster...
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
You shouldnt pull something out of context, just to excuse a company or technology in a 2 month dead thread with your first post?

The slide mentioned uses Ramdisk vs HD. Not Ramdisk vs SSD. And as long as HDs are around, applications and game designer will use compressed techniques to boost the I/O that way. However those methods are extremely taxing for the CPU. So yes, you are CPU limited until that design method changes. And that method wont change as long as HDs are around. You can already see the minimal differences today between 300MB/sec and 550MB/sec on an SSD. Then having 10000MB/sec wont matter much.

Ramdisks are also a niche product with very limited practical functionality as explained in this thread as well. Nomatter who, when or what.
 
Last edited:

snakefist

Banned
Dec 23, 2012
4
1
0
just as i expected :(

1st post, and now you're "disciplining" me, right? well, you're wrong, i was member here since site started, and now re-registered, mr.diamond. save that routine for someone other... [this is just an unpleasant reply to unpleasantness - shouldn't you greet me or something, if i indeed were 1st time poster?]

and if you're still claiming that cpu is bottleneck over storage... well, i can't really help you - not worth the effort

reason why i did pull out old thread was that i was looking for something else, and came upon this by chance

[EDIT]
3400 posts since APRIL??? i've have enough of this conversation already... of course number of posts matter to you, surely you fancy yourself an expert because... calculating... 17 posts/day? surely, this counts lots more than my 25 years in IT industry...
 
Last edited:

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,118
58
91
snakefist, welcome back to the forums. Not sure why you re-registered though, multi-accounts are not allowed. The place to address this with the mods is in Moderator Discussions.

you CAN'T be serious??? about bolded part? HDD is, like, bottleneck for last 20 years...

^ when your opening sentence of your seemingly first post is intentionally inflammatory like this it can't be helped but to be interpretted as you registering with the intent to be spoiling for a flame war :(

just as i expected :(


I should hope so...the response was reasonable and professional IMO but on the basis of your post, to which it was a response, I don't see how you could have expected much else TBH.

1st post, and now you're "disciplining" me, right? well, you're wrong, i was member here since site started, and now re-registered, mr.diamond. save that routine for someone other... [this is just an unpleasant reply to unpleasantness - shouldn't you greet me or something, if i indeed were 1st time poster?]

and if you're still claiming that cpu is bottleneck over storage... well, i can't really help you - not worth the effort

reason why i did pull out old thread was that i was looking for something else, and came upon this by chance

[EDIT]
3400 posts since APRIL??? i've have enough of this conversation already... of course number of posts matter to you, surely you fancy yourself an expert because... calculating... 17 posts/day? surely, this counts lots more than my 25 years in IT industry...

There is too much vitriol in this second post of yours for me to address without face-palming.

You are spoiling for a fight. If that was your intent then it looks like you can logoff with a "mission accomplished" salute in the mirror.

I don't know your history, but to a mod this situation looks very much like you and ShintaiDK have history, bad history at that, either on this forum or perhaps on another forum...and you have elected to bring up old grudges here and now under the auspices of being a "new member". That is shady, it is shady to me as a mod and I suspect it came across as suspect to member ShintaiDK as well.

In other words, you brought the situation onto yourself and in more than one way. At this juncture it is up to you to decide if you wish to seek common ground and correct your netiquette gaffes or if you wish to add fuel to a fire, a fire you chose to start, by way of your future response(s). On that only time will tell.

If the sort of response your two posts here have generated were not the sort of responses you were hoping to elicit then I would politely suggest you re-evaluate your approach to this thread and the member(s) in it.
 

snakefist

Banned
Dec 23, 2012
4
1
0
wow. now i'm impressed. yes, i was a long time member, but posted very little - fact is, so little that i changed my registration mail (non-web based), which i can't access anymore. i don't have multiple accounts - even one is too much for me, it seems

definitions of 'professional' seems to differ - if i stake a claim that monitor is bottleneck of system, and someone corrects me, then i answer "disciplinary" - that is your definition of professionalism?

i was (and am still) a mod and admin on other hardware sites, and understand fully well this development - meaning that i have no desire whatsoever to be a part of this "community", for following reasons:
1) my post - never discussed, just 'professionally' flamed
2) removed post - i can just speculate, but i don't think it was relevant or meaningful
3) hyperactive moderator "disciplining" ME? "face-palming"??? watch your tone, "moderator", it's not the normal conversation term - "netiquette" at its best
4) do you even know what vitriol is? (this is unrelated, but i see that you don't)

i don't know person in question, and don't have a history (what, from april???) with him - and honestly, don't desire it

this forum turned to... something unpleasant, i'll already regretted my re-registering and doubt i'll be bothering you again. during my many years of activity, i have found better and more pleasant places for discussion already - really don't need this one

i'll continue reading articles, as they are good and professional, UNLIKE forum

good buy and good luck, as you won't be hearing from me again - no love lost on either side, i believe

We are more than glad to help you with that. Good bye, good luck, and please do forget to write.

-Thanks
ViRGE
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Edgemeal

Senior member
Dec 8, 2007
211
57
101
I'm a long time ramdisk user, and not just for benchmarking purposes.
Majority of end users will probably never see any benefit from a ramdisk.

I've been using ramdisks for years, mainly for one of my apps that constantly creates, compresses and deletes thousands of folders and files (if I could re-write the app to do it all in ram I would, but its just too complicated). What happens is the HDD starts thrashing really bad and I figured that can't be good for it in the long run, using a ramdisk all the HDD thrashing went away.

If SSDs were as cheap as ram and didn't have limited writes that would be my next choice, but ram is cheap, fast, and will basically last forever.

As for AMD promoting ramdisk to gamers just seems a bit silly to me tho.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,118
58
91
Majority of end users will probably never see any benefit from a ramdisk.

I've been using ramdisks for years, mainly for one of my apps that constantly creates, compresses and deletes thousands of folders and files (if I could re-write the app to do it all in ram I would, but its just too complicated). What happens is the HDD starts thrashing really bad and I figured that can't be good for it in the long run, using a ramdisk all the HDD thrashing went away.

If SSDs were as cheap as ram and didn't have limited writes that would be my next choice, but ram is cheap, fast, and will basically last forever.

As for AMD promoting ramdisk to gamers just seems a bit silly to me tho.

Interesting, if I am correctly envisioning what you are doing then it sounds like it basically removes the random IO burden from the spindle drive and puts that burden on ramdrive where random IO is not a performance-limiting issue (i.e. the same benefit people are experience when taking advantage of SSDs).

Your post is quite intriguing, I wonder if I was unwittingly benefiting from the same in a way.

I too have a script that compresses a few gigabytes of files/folders on a weekly basis (when I remember to execute it, that is, no cronjob here :p) but I never ported it to my ramdrive because I started using it once I had SSDs installed.

If I had to guess, I imagine I would have ported the process over to the ramdrive as well had I still been using a spindle drive by that time. I think your solution is ingenious, but I also suspect that were you to migrate to using an SSD then you'd find the procedure superfluous.
 

snakefist

Banned
Dec 23, 2012
4
1
0
LOL at the irony considering the tenor and demeanor of your three posts in these forums thus far :rolleyes:

tenor and demeanor??? why not vitriol, also?

acronyms and emoticons... admins trolling... how pitiful can this place get?

yes, i fell victim to trolling one last time, but only for admins sake

anand may benefit from revising his staff choice - this is no way admin should act. or talk.

neither should i waste my time here - but it got funny when admin joined
 
  • Like
Reactions: Grazick

Ferzerp

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,438
107
106
You sure post an awful lot for someone supposedly done with this place.

You're sort of making yourself look worse and worse. You might want to cool it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.