AMD Radeon HD 9970 Specifications Leaked – Twice as fast as GTX 780 (ChipLoco rumor)

[Endymion FRS]

Twice as fast? Oh come on, I'm an ATI/AMD fangirl and even I'd say that's complete bull.

 

[Shventos]

Twice 780 performance 🙂 My prediction is as follows. AMD have clearly spent a lot of time the past year ensuring wins in the next gen console market. As part of this effort they developed an entirely new chip - bonaire/7790, for the xbox one. Although the 7790 is a less than spectacular mid range chip, it none the less incorporates several architecture improvements that make it pretty efficient. Now if you make a few assumptions and scale the 7790 up by a factor of 3, you start to see specs that seem spookily credible for the upcoming 9970. See below. Note I've made the assumption the reference model will initially ship with 3GB VRAM and use the fastest available memory such as recently seen on the gtx 770. However I may be wrong and AMD may opt to go for 6GB of the standard 6GHz GDDR5 to compare directly with Titan. Also I've assumed GPU clock will be similar to what we've seen recently from AMD on 28nm. Another assumption is price based on latest rumours.

Estimated Spec 9970 Based on Bonaire x 3
Stream Processors 2688
Texture Units 168
ROPs 48
Core Clock 1000MHz
Memory Clock 6000MHz or 7010MHz
Memory Bus Width 384bit
VRAM 3GB or 6GB
Transistor Count 6.24Billion
Target Board Power 255Watt
Manufacturing Process 28nm
Die Size 480mm2
Launch Price $600

Based on a bit of math and guess work. This roughly equates to a performance level perhaps 35% higher than the 7970Ghz. Maybe 17% faster than the GTX780 and just about on par with Titan. However, its fill rate performance will likely be inferior to Titan due to the significant lower number of Texture Units, but that is a pattern we have seen recently between GCN and Kepler. The thing to note is that a lot of the specs scale up identically to Titan based on the 7790 x 3 assumption. Identical number of stream processors/SMX units, ROPs, Memory Bus Width, Similar Power Draw etc. Also 9970 achieves this with 12% less transistors than gk110 and a 14% smaller die which might explain why AMD will likely offer it at slightly cheaper than the 780 and a whopping 40% cheaper than Titan if rumour on price is true. I also suspect having a similar architecture to the xbox one chip, all be it scaled up by a factor of 3 will benefit AMD and TSMC from a manufacturing perspective.

 

[RussianSensation]

Maybe 17% faster than the GTX780 and just about on par with Titan.

3x Bonaire is still slower than a stock 780 and after-market 780s.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_780_TF_Gaming/26.html

Also, DP performance will be undermined which goes against AMD's strategy. If you enable full DP, how can you have 255W as it'll use more power than Bonaire x3.

 

[wand3r3r]

Estimated Spec 9970 Based on Bonaire x 3
Stream Processors 2688
Texture Units 168
ROPs 48
Core Clock 1000MHz
Memory Clock 6000MHz or 7010MHz
Memory Bus Width 384bit
VRAM 3GB or 6GB
Transistor Count 6.24Billion
Target Board Power 255Watt
Manufacturing Process 28nm
Die Size 480mm2
Launch Price $600

Based on a bit of math and guess work. This roughly equates to a performance level perhaps 35% higher than the 7970Ghz. Maybe 17% faster than the GTX780 and just about on par with Titan. However, its fill rate performance will likely be inferior to Titan due to the significant lower number of Texture Units, but that is a pattern we have seen recently between GCN and Kepler. The thing to note is that a lot of the specs scale up identically to Titan based on the 7790 x 3 assumption. Identical number of stream processors/SMX units, ROPs, Memory Bus Width, Similar Power Draw etc. Also 9970 achieves this with 12% less transistors than gk110 and a 14% smaller die which might explain why AMD will likely offer it at slightly cheaper than the 780 and a whopping 40% cheaper than Titan if rumour on price is true. I also suspect having a similar architecture to the xbox one chip, all be it scaled up by a factor of 3 will benefit AMD and TSMC from a manufacturing perspective.

Welcome to the forums.

Good rationale thoughts, I don't know if I buy it but somewhat plausible.

 

[SiliconWars]

3x Bonaire is still slower than a stock 780 and after-market 780s.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_780_TF_Gaming/26.html

Uhhh, what? Even on Anandtech's bench the 7790 is almost never so far behind that three wouldn't beat a stock 780. In many games 2x Bonaire would suffice, and when you consider the bandwidth penalty that will be severely affecting some games, that's pretty amazing.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/827?vs=776

 

[Jacky60]

The new 9700 Pro will be twice as fast as the 7970. You heard it here first!

 

[Stuka87]

I love how their chart mentions that it has 4096MHz of RAM. How can you take somebody serious when they supplement MB for MHz?!

 

[Erenhardt]

3x Bonaire is still slower than a stock 780 and after-market 780s.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_780_TF_Gaming/26.html

Also, DP performance will be undermined which goes against AMD's strategy. If you enable full DP, how can you have 255W as it'll use more power than Bonaire x3.

First you post a link which contradicts your statement. (3x37%=111% overall or 3x41%=123% in low resolution).
Then you somehow implying that boinare is DP crippled like kepler...
7790 takes 69 watt in average conditions (techpowerup review you linked) and 103 watts max. You probably know that some of it goes to waste on cheap PCB etc. So card with die consisting of 3x boinare will take little less than 3x power of the single boinare.

 

[Smoblikat]

What do you mean especially the 20nm? If it's not 20nm how would they get 4096sp, 512bit MB, etc. into a 28nm chip @ ~255W? The only way this can even begin to make sense is if it's on 20nm.

It doesnt make sense, because it ISNT on 20nm. It has been nearly confirmed to be on 28nm.

 

[Stuka87]

It doesnt make sense, because it ISNT on 20nm. It has been nearly confirmed to be on 28nm.

Our new friendly AMD rep here on the forums said it was 28nm in the topic he created when he first joined. (Although it was in a slight of hand kind of way)

 

[Saylick]

Our new friendly AMD rep here on the forums said it was 28nm in the topic he created when he first joined. (Although it was in a slight of hand kind of way)

Well, we don't really know for sure if our new friendly AMD rep was talking about CPUs or GPUs at the time, so nothing is confirmed thus far. Gut feeling and rational thinking both lead to 28nm, but again, nothing is confirmed.

 

[SolMiester]

[redacted]

I mean I want AMD to release products that are good performers and have better performance / price ratio than current offerings on the market, but 2x 780 is not even entertaining. I mean if someone make rumors at least make them theoretically beliveable - then rumor lives longer ;p

^this...

 

[SolMiester]

No. double the power. Not twice as fast. This is how ridiculous rumors get started by taking things out of context and misinterpreting them. 😉

The link say twice as fast!!

Actually the article is all over the place, 20nm, and launch in 2014?

 

[SolMiester]

I have a hunch it could be quite a bit faster than we expect. I just don't see how AMD can expect to sell it if it's not very significantly faster than a 7970. The 7990 is the same price as the 780 here (UK) so if AMD introduce the 9970 and it's a little faster than the 780 and matches the Titan, who would buy one when a much quicker card is available (7990) already at the same price. Also wtf has AMD's graphics division been doing these last two years if they can only managed to improve the 7970 by 20-30%.

Those that cant be bothered waiting for AMD frame pacing drivers?

 

[Jacky60]

I hear you, correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't the frame pacing driver been released already. Although I know the eyefinity one has yet to be released.

 

[tolis626]

I hear you, correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't the frame pacing driver been released already. Although I know the eyefinity one has yet to be released.

No,it hasn't been actually "released",as in available and recommended for everyone to download.There are beta drivers (Latest being 13.8b2 I think) that include fixes,but nothing complete and nothing ready for prime time.

 

[Keysplayr]

How about a bonaire x2 x2? A super tweaked bonaire chip doubled all around. Put two of these on a PCB with 8GB GDDR5.
That should put a hurtin on any 780 or Titan. Objections?
No way is AMD coming out with a 480mm2 die. I'll :::expletive::: myself if that happens. hehe.

 

[parvadomus]

How about a bonaire x2 x2? A super tweaked bonaire chip doubled all around. Put two of these on a PCB with 8GB GDDR5.
That should put a hurtin on any 780 or Titan. Objections?
No way is AMD coming out with a 480mm2 die. I'll :::expletive::: myself if that happens. hehe.

It would be slower than 7990, theres no point in doing it.
AMD can match Titan with a sub 450mm2 die without killing DP performance. GCN is superior than Kepler in compute performance per mm2.

 

[SolMiester]

I hear you, correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't the frame pacing driver been released already. Although I know the eyefinity one has yet to be released.

Yes, only for single monitors.....that was over a month ago now.....so 7990 still has limited use....

 

[SolMiester]

It would be slower than 7990, theres no point in doing it.
AMD can match Titan with a sub 450mm2 die without killing DP performance. GCN is superior than Kepler in compute performance per mm2.

However game performance is not just about compete, Kepler has already shown that!

 

[raghu78]

How about a bonaire x2 x2? A super tweaked bonaire chip doubled all around. Put two of these on a PCB with 8GB GDDR5.
That should put a hurtin on any 780 or Titan. Objections?

are you kidding ? AMD is coming with a big die GPU whether you like it or not.

No way is AMD coming out with a 480mm2 die. I'll :::expletive::: myself if that happens. hehe.

you better be ready to :::expletive::: yourself :biggrin:

 

[raghu78]

However game performance is not just about compete, Kepler has already shown that!

Pitcairn aka HD 7870 (212 sq mm) is faster than GK106 aka GTX 660 (221 sq mm) in gaming and compute.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6276/...-review-gk106-rounds-out-the-kepler-family/14

so yes GCN has definitely shown its as good or better than kepler at perf / sq mm. Hawaii will just prove that at the high end.

 

[SolMiester]

Sure it will...🙄

 

[RussianSensation]

First you post a link which contradicts your statement. (3x37%=111% overall or 3x41%=123% in low resolution).

Overall at TPU is a useless metric. Who buys a $600 GPU and games at 1600x900?

1600P
Bonaire = 31%
780 = 94%
MSI 780 = 100%

3x Bonaire won't beat after-market 780s in demanding games/high resolution gaming.

Then you somehow implying that boinare is DP crippled like kepler...

It has nothing to do with Kepler. Bonaire is DP crippled. There is nothing to imply. It's a fact. It has 1/16th of SP.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6837/...w-feat-sapphire-the-first-desktop-sea-islands

If you just take 3x Bonaire chips, you have a DP crippled flagship. Once you add/enable those double precision transistors, do you think your die size/power consumption won't be adversely affected?

7790 takes 69 watt in average conditions (techpowerup review you linked) and 103 watts max.

Average power consumption doesn't tell us what the card peaks at in games. This is why I always link to Peak power consumption. Why? Peak GPU power will happen in games. Even if it happens for 5 minutes in a very demanding scene, that stresses the power supply, VRMs and the reference cooling system. When AMD designs a GPU, they must look at the peak power consumption in games because if the card fails at peak load, it's not suitable for sale.

Bonaire peaks at 77W. Either way, you missed the point that double precision transistors are not free - not in the form of power consumption or die size. Therefore, even if you triple Bonaire's peak power you still have to account for DP hit, unless AMD will cripple its flagship.

After-market 780s are way faster than a stock 7970GE. At this point with such small premium for after-market 780s, using a stock 780 as a point of reference that 9970 has to hit is not realistic either.

Finally, GTX680 was 10-12% slower than 7970GE but it accomplished that feat with 33% less memory bandwidth and 25% less shaders.

Titan has 48 ROPs, 224 TMUs and 2688 SPs. If you triple Bonaire, you are well under 224 TMUs. The one possibility that could come into play is that the major bottlenecks in Tahiti are resulting is less than optimal optimization of 2048 SPs. If that is true, then once the ACE/TMU/ROP bottlenecks are opened up, the SPs may be used more efficiently.

The longer 9970 is delayed, the less impressive it will be because every month we are that much closer to 20nm GPUs. Even if AMD undercuts 780 by $100, NV could just drop the price on after-market 780s to $550. AMD has lost the momentum after 7970GE and bringing out a card that barely beats 780 by 5% is not good enough.

 

[Keysplayr]

are you kidding ? AMD is coming with a big die GPU whether you like it or not.



you better be ready to :::expletive::: yourself :biggrin:

We've been through this Raghu. It is FAR more likely that AMD will utilize multi-GPUs to compete at the top end than it is for AMD to go big die at this stage of their financial and technological (engineer firings) game. So please, unless you have undeniable proof that what you claim is truth, please don't ask me if I'm joking when I'm the one being realistic here.