Silverforce11
Lifer
Those guys are expecting 2560 shaders, on 28nm. That isn't a monster die, just a tiny improvement. With those specs, it should match Titan.
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AMD Radeon HD 9970 Specifications Leaked Twice as fast as GTX 780 (ChipLoco rumor)
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Those guys are expecting 2560 shaders, on 28nm. That isn't a monster die, just a tiny improvement. With those specs, it should match Titan.
boxleitnerb
Platinum Member
This is only a random picture for their opinion column. Has nothing to do with Hawaii.
RussianSensation
Elite Member
1Ghz 7970s have fallen to $280, while GTX770 sells for $380-450, while 780s are going for $650-720. At this point NV is no longer competing with AMD on value or price/performance in the $250+ bracket. NV just prices their products at whatever the consumers are willing to pay for their cards and keeps prices high for as long as possible. That means even if 9970 delivers 95% of Titan's performance for $499, people will still continue to buy NV cards just like right now NV's loyal consumers buy $300 GTX760 4GB, $400 GTX770 2GB and $450 GTX770 4GB. It has been a LONG time since we have seen such a discrepancy in price/performance for AMD vs. NV. If NV pulled this type of pricing during GeForce 3-GeForce 7 days they would have been ridiculed on the forums.
AMD needs a new strategy since price/performance against NV doesn't work but they can't afford to build 550mm2 die GPUs either. Perhaps they need to hit 440-460mm2 then.
I mean if we look at where 1Ghz 7970 is right now, not many 770s should even sell in the US but they do. That means there is now a fundamental shift in how consumers look at AMD vs. NV cards. AMD is in a very tough spot since even if they beat 780/Titan and undercut NV, consumers still prefer NV. I think AMD needs to figure out a way to start building larger die GPUs because it's becoming obvious from 4 consecutive generations since 4800 series that price/performance isn't working for AMD.
AMD needs a new strategy since price/performance against NV doesn't work but they can't afford to build 550mm2 die GPUs either. Perhaps they need to hit 440-460mm2 then.
I mean if we look at where 1Ghz 7970 is right now, not many 770s should even sell in the US but they do. That means there is now a fundamental shift in how consumers look at AMD vs. NV cards. AMD is in a very tough spot since even if they beat 780/Titan and undercut NV, consumers still prefer NV. I think AMD needs to figure out a way to start building larger die GPUs because it's becoming obvious from 4 consecutive generations since 4800 series that price/performance isn't working for AMD.
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Jaydip
Diamond Member
There is a very simple strategy, AMD needs to focus more on exclusives.For e.g. if TressFx was only a radeon only feature and was awesome it could certainly create waves.
RussianSensation
Elite Member
I don't agree. This is the worst possible outcome for us gamers. I do not want to have to choose between 2 locked competitors that change the way games look for me. If the PC gaming industry adopts Apple-style closed approach I will not support such practices. If right now AMD wants to spend $ by incorporating compute but allows NV cards to run the same features, I have no problem with that. NV can always make a new architecture even stronger at compute. It's a fair game. Locking in graphical features (BL2 PhysX) for the sake of brand equity is BS. NV and AMD are free to exploit their architecture's strength by working closely with developers but all of these features should be available to everyone. Imagine if AMD/NV locked out global illumination, tessellation, HDAO, soft shadows, etc. That would be ridiculous.
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Jaydip
Diamond Member
You can disagree but I won't be surprised if going forward AMD is more focused on exclusives.You need some key points to differentiate yourself from your competitors, just being faster is not enough sometimes.This is how corporates function and to succeed AMD has to adopt this strategy.I liked when AMD made MLAA exclusive to radeons only.
Exclusive driver options are not the same thing as exclusive in game features.
Jaydip
Diamond Member
Unimportant, they just need some good exclusives.I played dishonored in my brother's machine(7950 DC II) and MLAA was better than FXAA.
Well they are important to people who like those methods and that where the exclusive features should be pushed to differentiate instead of game lockout features.
Another example is SLI in windowed mode which is a good feature that AMD CF does not have.
Why choose an EVGA over a Gainward, there are plenty of ways too differentiate.
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boxleitnerb
Platinum Member
In Germany the 680 costs the same as the 7970 OC from Gigabyte. The competitiveness of AMDs and NVs solutions varies wildly by country.
Jaydip
Diamond Member
Well you can't have your cake and eat it too.As I said previously just performing % faster doesn't cut it anymore, you need some defining features of your solution.Corporates roll this way and I don't see why AMD would be different, pleasing some pc gamers shouldn't be their top priority.
That is your opinion which contradicts pretty much every other aspect of PC hardware where most people are not willing to pay more for less performance, CPU, Memory, Motherboard.
And AMD does have defining features, its just that you are only interested in the game lockout ones.
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Jaydip
Diamond Member
Except I didn't say performing way less.7970 GHz is faster than 680(Couple of %) but don't have some of Kepler exclusives.I would be extremely surprised if 7970 outsold 680 ever.Regarding CPU,MB people tend to do that always, people buy 4960X while 4770K is faster in many applications, people buy Xpower which adds almost nothing over it's lesser brethren(read the review at AT).
Irrelevant, the point is what an individual believes to be the best performance for there money, cant help that people are sometimes ill informed and dont do there homework first..
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Jaydip
Diamond Member
Relevant because you said people won't spend more for less performance.I just showed you that they do.It is simply because of more feature set.
I said most and that's because feature set can come into play.
BallaTheFeared
Diamond Member
It can't be most though because AMD has had better perf/$ for a long time now and has actually lost market share.
So clearly something else is at play, whatever it is, we can assume most aren't purchasing based on price/performance alone.
Exactly and NV had the following way before those 2 features came into play.
NV's marketing which TWIMTBP is part of is what got them where they are initially with gamers.
RussianSensation
Elite Member
Consumer stickiness. Some people even comment they won't switch to AMD because the way CCC panel looks turns them off. 😀 If you use Crest toothpaste and it has satisfied you for years, you need Colgate to deliver more features and maybe at a lower price/larger volume of paste for the same price. We know for sure from last 4 generations AMD cannot gain much market share with price/performance + overclocking + game bundles. What shocked me was that when AMD's cards were virtually free courtesy of BTC, certain enthusiasts on our forums still didn't care. I mean AMD could sell a $50 9970 and those same people wouldn't buy it.
I think there are really 2 types of consumers here: ones who buy NV and are ready to buy the next NV card unless AMD introduces something out of this world (which hasn't happened since 9700Pro days) or if NV royally screws up (GeForce 5/7). But even during GeForce5&7 they still bought NV cards. AMD's best bet is to stop worrying about market share, release the world's fastest GPUs and raise prices in every level. This way they can make up for lower volume with higher margins. Problem is they can't afford to make 550-560mm2 die. That's why they are stuck competing on price/performance for 4 generations in a row now. And even when they launched much faster 5870 for $369 and beat NV for 6 months, NV's customers still waited 6 months. Even when AMD launched 7970 that smoked the 580 when both are overclocked, and AMD had 0 competition for 7770/7850/7870, NV's users still didn't switch.
The only way out to profitability is to focus on HPC market and with it hopefully get closer to 550-560mm2 die chips. Only then AMD can go back to ATI's days of class leading GPU performance. Maybe if AMD had enough resources they could bifurcate their line-up into compute vs. gaming chips as NV has done.
boxleitnerb
Platinum Member
Well, who wouldn't wait (at least for a while) for both companies to release their products? One can hardly hold that against them. When company A releases something, no one knows if company B will follow in 1, 2 or 6 months. And how their product will turn out.
DooKey
Golden Member
I think it's more brand name recognition and not in a blind fanatical way. The AMD cpu division is known as the "low-end" of the cpu spectrum to many regardless of the reality and AMD did this to themselves. Since the purchase of ATI and the rebranding of the gpu division to AMD I believe customers feel the same way about AMD gpu's as they do AMD cpu's.
Bring back ATI and drop the AMD albatross.
StrangerGuy
Diamond Member
Yeah, to think about it the manner AMD mishandled the ATI acquisition was bad enough, killing off the ATI brand was another brainless shot on their own foot.
SirPauly
Diamond Member
They did take over-all discrete market share away from nVidia with the last ATI branded family --5XXX series -- in 2010 -- AMD may of felt this was the right time to change the brand -- may of figured their strategies were working -- and may continue momentum!
Discrete share changed swiftly back to nVidia with their 5XX family over the AMD branded 6XXX family!
Discrete share changed swiftly back to nVidia with their 5XX family over the AMD branded 6XXX family!
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