AMD Radeon 7000-Series 28nm (Southern Islands) | 7990 7970 7870 7770 | Discussion

[Grooveriding]

Lots of butthurt nvidia fanboys in this thread. What do you care if you think the card is too expensive for you, you wouldn't buy one anyway. Heck, most of the fanboys don't even buy 580s.

Fastest single-gpu on the market - check.

Fastest multi-gpu setup with the card - check

No competition anywhere in sight - check

AMD will be ringing up the $550 sales until the competition comes. Laughable nonsense being posted here. The people who buy this card are the people who want the fastest card, it's always been like that. What buffoon would buy a GTX 580 over this card ? Redact that, there likely is some idiot who would take a card 30% slower for the same price because of physx and brand loyalism. :awe:

If you don't want the fastest card or can't have it, don't sweat it. Sit back and enjoy the 3 month ? 5 month ? 7 month ? wait until nvidia has a card out that is faster. Even though you won't even buy that one, but at least you can post about it and harp on now this is worth the $600 they'll probably be charging for it.

 

[skipsneeky2]

Lots of butthurt nvidia fanboys in this thread. What do you care if you think the card is too expensive for you, you wouldn't buy one anyway. Heck, most of the fanboys don't even buy 580s.

Fastest single-gpu on the market - check.

Fastest multi-gpu setup with the card - check

No competition anywhere in sight - check

AMD will be ringing up the $550 sales until the competition comes. Laughable nonsense being posted here. The people who buy this card are the people who want the fastest card, it's always been like that. What buffoon would buy a GTX 580 over this card ? Redact that, there likely is some idiot who would take a card 30% slower for the same price because of physx and brand loyalism. :awe:

If you don't want the fastest card or can't have it, don't sweat it. Sit back and enjoy the 3 month ? 5 month ? 7 month ? wait until nvidia has a card out that is faster. Even though you won't even buy that one, but at least you can post about it and harp on now this is worth the $600 they'll probably be charging for it.

Never underestimate the stupidity of people on the internet.

Rule #1

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Lots of butthurt nvidia fanboys in this thread. What do you care if you think the card is too expensive for you, you wouldn't buy one anyway. Heck, most of the fanboys don't even buy 580s.

Fastest single-gpu on the market - check.

Fastest multi-gpu setup with the card - check

No competition anywhere in sight - check

AMD will be ringing up the $550 sales until the competition comes. Laughable nonsense being posted here. The people who buy this card are the people who want the fastest card, it's always been like that. What buffoon would buy a GTX 580 over this card ? Redact that, there likely is some idiot who would take a card 30% slower for the same price because of physx and brand loyalism. :awe:

If you don't want the fastest card or can't have it, don't sweat it. Sit back and enjoy the 3 month ? 5 month ? 7 month ? wait until nvidia has a card out that is faster. Even though you won't even buy that one, but at least you can post about it and harp on now this is worth the $600 they'll probably be charging for it.

Im not a "butt hurt" fanboy. I was ready to buy one. Even told my wife not to get me anything for Xmas since I'd probably be spending a good chunk of cash on a new computer part. She just said okay (Yes when you get married it's best to get approval).
After reading some reviews on the 7970 I've done a 180 on it. I really had high hopes for this card. It performs like a champ but man they really dropped the ball on the pricing.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Im not a "butt hurt" fanboy.

You are certainly doing a really good imitation of one.

Lots of butthurt nvidia fanboys in this thread.

heh, makes me think of this pic.

 

[RussianSensation]

If you don't want the fastest card or can't have it, don't sweat it. Sit back and enjoy the 3 month ? 5 month ? 7 month ? wait until nvidia has a card out that is faster. Even though you won't even buy that one, but at least you can post about it and harp on now this is worth the $600 they'll probably be charging for it.

You well know that if GTX680 was only 25-30% faster than GTX580, our forum would rip it to shreds. I'll say this, imagine if instead of HD7970, GTX680 launched right now for $549 and had 25-30% more performance over your overclocked GTX480 / stock 580. Would you have said that it's OK since it's still the single fastest card for $550-600? I am pretty sure, even you expected way more out of the 7970. :biggrin:

Is it a far superior card to the 580 and 6970? Absolutely.

Watch, if GTX680 is only 20-25% faster than HD7970, but launches 6-9 months later, we'll hear: "Oh it's not impressive, the performance increase is not enough for being so many months late....etc. etc.".

Keep in mind, that GTX580 launched on November 9, 2010. We won't be able to buy HD7970 until January 9, 2012. That means it took AMD 14 months to beat an NV card by only 30% (so about 2.1% per month). So if GTX680 is only 24% faster overall than HD7970 and launches on December 9, 2012, that would be just as acceptable then?

 

[notty22]

Lots of butthurt nvidia fanboys in this thread. What do you care if you think the card is too expensive for you, you wouldn't buy one anyway. Heck, most of the fanboys don't even buy 580s.

Fastest single-gpu on the market - check.

Fastest multi-gpu setup with the card - check

No competition anywhere in sight - check

AMD will be ringing up the $550 sales until the competition comes. Laughable nonsense being posted here. The people who buy this card are the people who want the fastest card, it's always been like that. What buffoon would buy a GTX 580 over this card ? Redact that, there likely is some idiot who would take a card 30% slower for the same price because of physx and brand loyalism. :awe:

If you don't want the fastest card or can't have it, don't sweat it. Sit back and enjoy the 3 month ? 5 month ? 7 month ? wait until nvidia has a card out that is faster. Even though you won't even buy that one, but at least you can post about it and harp on now this is worth the $600 they'll probably be charging for it.

You forgot :
Paper launch : check, that upset some last holiday.

 

[Zed03]

Im not a "butt hurt" fanboy. I was ready to buy one. Even told my wife not to get me anything for Xmas since I'd probably be spending a good chunk of cash on a new computer part. She just said okay (Yes when you get married it's best to get approval).
After reading some reviews on the 7970 I've done a 180 on it. I really had high hopes for this card. It performs like a champ but man they really dropped the ball on the pricing.

? This launch is the same as every launch since R300 back in 2002. $500-700, and this falls on the side closer to $500. Not really sure why you expected your made up hopes to come true.

 

[Grooveriding]

Im not a "butt hurt" fanboy. I was ready to buy one. Even told my wife not to get me anything for Xmas since I'd probably be spending a good chunk of cash on a new computer part. She just said okay (Yes when you get married it's best to get approval).
After reading some reviews on the 7970 I've done a 180 on it. I really had high hopes for this card. It performs like a champ but man they really dropped the ball on the pricing.

I wasn't addressing the butthurt towards you.

I do think that the argument that they are OP is not right though. The buyers who go for these cards are the folks who bought 2 or 3 5870s, then bought 2 or 3 480s, then bought 2 or 3 580s and now are going to buy 2 or 3 7970s.

They don't give a toss about price or nvidia or amd, they just want the fastest setup available. There will also be the buyers who don't want to mess with multi-gpu and just want one really fast single card and are willing to pay for it. Yesterday they would of bought a 580, today and going ahead they'll be buying a 7970.

I don't think the card is fast enough for me to buy it either, I felt the same way about the 6970 and the 580. Not enough there, but I don't think it's overpriced. The pricing is not going to be right for everyone, but it will be right or a non-issue for a lot of people who do buy them.

AMD just spoiled everyone with cheap 5870s and 5850s. I think we all would of liked them to do it again and they didn't

 

[Grooveriding]

You forgot :
Paper launch : check, that upset some last holiday.

soft=/paper

Maybe you can create a soft launch thread of your own on Jan 9th and the weeks following when all the etailors are constantly running out of stock on the 7970 and 7950.

 

[skipsneeky2]

Im not a "butt hurt" fanboy. I was ready to buy one. Even told my wife not to get me anything for Xmas since I'd probably be spending a good chunk of cash on a new computer part. She just said okay (Yes when you get married it's best to get approval).
After reading some reviews on the 7970 I've done a 180 on it. I really had high hopes for this card. It performs like a champ but man they really dropped the ball on the pricing.

Gotta love buttering your woman up like a butterball turkey to get what you want.

The 6790 in my system was sorta a xmas gift but i told my woman i will return it tomorrow give her $140 now instead of next month and now my budget next month for pc parts jumps to nearly $700 instead of $550.

Will have to roll with the onboard hd2000 for almost 3 weeks but it will be worth it also the 3 weeks away i can take a breather from gaming

6790 is problematic with me anyways and i got only 4 days on the invoice for a cash return so its a win win for everyone^_^

 

[SirPauly]

I like the idea of higher end enthusiast single GPU choice -- at all costs -- never settle - mentality -- because I feel gamers are worth risking for to try to innovate and improve the gaming experience.

There will be sku's for many price-points including sweet spots that will offer value and great bang for the buck, too. When AMD offered their sweet spot strategy years ago I felt they left too much revenue on the table and forsaked the enthusiasts by only offering multi-GPU choice. Multi-GPU choice is very welcomed but not just this choice at the higher price-points based on its limitations.

Pricing is more about competition and market aspects and really glad to see AMD risk and never settle when it comes to raising the bar for gamers. Really enjoy both nVidia and AMD fighting hard to garner gaming revenue; it brings out their talents to innovate.

 

[Grooveriding]

You well know that if GTX680 was only 25-30% faster than GTX580, our forum would rip it to shreds. I'll say this, imagine if instead of HD7970, GTX680 launched right now for $549 and had 25-30% more performance over your overclocked GTX480 / stock 580. Would you have said that it's OK since it's still the single fastest card for $550-600? I am pretty sure, even you expected way more out of the 7970. :biggrin:

Is it a far superior card to the 580 and 6970? Absolutely.

Watch, if GTX680 is only 20-25% faster than HD7970, but launches 6-9 months later, we'll hear: "Oh it's not impressive, the performance increase is not enough for being so many months late....etc. etc.".

I've already said I won't buy it because it's not fast enough in contrast to what I am running right now, but it's not overpriced. This is just a silly argument to try and knock what is a blazingly fast card. It's about as fast over the 6970 as the 5870 was over the 4890.. at launch. The only difference this time is launch price and this is why there is complaining ?

Keep in mind, that GTX580 launched on November 9, 2010. We won't be able to buy HD7970 until January 9, 2012. That means it took AMD 14 months to beat an NV card by only 25-30%.

Has it really been a year now that the 580 has been out ? Wow, considering it was just the 480 as it was intended to be, you would think nvidia would not still be behind like they are and late to the party again. If the rumors are accurate that the 680 is not coming until Q2 of 2012, that will be over two years for them to release a new architecture.

They may end up releasing it right into the lap of the 7980 or whatever AMD calls their refresh.

I have to say I am getting a good chuckle out of the comparisons to a non-existent nvidia 28nm flagship with all the expectations of how it is going to be this fast. I am too lazy to dig up old threads, but suffice to say, I'm sure you all remember the same nonsense being tossed around for 6 months while nvidia delayed and delayed again; then released a card that was 15-20% faster and burned your house down if you left it folding unattended. I'm sure when we get a 680 in April, May or June next year it will be faster - as it should be, they'll have had however many more months of development to release it.

Don't cross your fingers too hard thinking you'll be getting twice the performance of a 580 in a single-gpu. They made about the exact same gains with 480 over 285 that AMD did with 5870 over 4890. Don't expect too much different, beyond nvidia maintaining their 20% edge from making big monolithic chips vs AMD's small dies.

I'm looking forward to seeing whatever nvidia releases go against this new AMD architecture, now that they have the whole super duper tessellation thing as well, what happens now for one to distinguish from another. Maybe nvidia will have Ubisoft release a game with 5,583,232 levels of tessellation applied to terrain to get some good bench numbers in.

 

[3DVagabond]

Mine are as well. If the 2nd tier card from the top Kepler chip (the gtx570 replacement) does not soundly beat the hd7970, then I think Nvidia will have failed from a performance perspective. In fact, seeing how the gtx560ti is about 50% faster than a gtx285, I expect Kepler's gtx560ti card to match or at least be insignificantly slower than the hd7970.

Sorry. I'm having difficulty connecting the dots

Since 560ti = (285x1.5) then GK104 = ~7970. How are you figuring that?

Never underestimate the stupidity of people on the internet.

Rule #1

There's an old saying, "No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." You need to change a couple of words, but the premise is the same, and just as true.

 

[RussianSensation]

Has it really been a year now that the 580 has been out ? Wow, considering it was just the 480 as it was intended to be, you would think nvidia would not still be behind like they are and late to the party again.

GTX580 launched 7 months and 1 week after GTX480, actually beating HD6970 refresh. So NV regained being 6 months behind. Not bad.

If GTX580 was what GTX480 was meant to be all along, then NV would have blown AMD out of the park. So honestly, GTX480 being "broken" was the best thing that happened to AMD. The GTX580's performance advantage over HD5870 is actually more than HD7970 has over the GTX580. That's not bad for a refresh part.

Even in "unworkable" state as Charlie put it, Fermi's performance increase over 5870 was more than sufficient. What made it unattractive was noisy cooler and very high power consumption. I think that's what really took away its lustre.

It was actually good for AMD that GTX480 wasn't launched as a full-fledged GTX580 as AMD would have had to reposition the 5870 as a $299-349 card.

If the rumors are accurate that the 680 is not coming until Q2 of 2012, that will be over two years for them to release a new architecture.

The same for AMD. It's been more than 2 years since HD5870. HD6970 was only fast enough catch up to the GTX480. Calling an HD6900 a new generation for AMD is only in the name, not the attributable performance. That means AMD only now launched their new generation, and it took them 2 years and 3 months.

Where NV dropped the ball was that they said Kepler would be a 2011 part and that Fermi's 6 months delay would have no impact on Kepler. So if Fermi was supposed to launch in the fall of 2009, then we should have expected Kepler by now. This means, Fermi delay did affect Kepler.

They may end up releasing it right into the lap of the 7980 or whatever AMD calls their refresh.

Probably true, which is why apoppin's assessment that the 7970 may be short-lived might be correct. We won't know for a while. Either way I look forward to a factory clocked 1.1-1.2ghz HD7980.

Don't cross your fingers too hard thinking you'll be getting twice the performance of a 580 in a single-gpu.

It doesn't have to be 2x faster. If GTX680 is just 60-65% faster than GTX580, it would make it 25% faster than HD7970. Right now HD7970 is about that much faster over a GTX580 but it took AMD 14 months to get there.

That means if NV releases a GTX680 with 25% more performance than HD7970 within the 14 months timeframe, then it would be just as impressive then. At least I will expect the exact same praise from everyone in this thread who went wild over the 25-30% performance increase of HD7970 over the GTX580. But somehow I have a feeling, the GTX680 will be dismissed as "late, again" even if it has 25% more performance. Just a gut feeling.

 

[Vesku]

But everyone did give the 580 a pass because it's the fastest card. It's pricing compared to the 480 and 570 is not very bang for the buck.

You well know that if GTX680 was only 25-30% faster than GTX580, our forum would rip it to shreds. I'll say this, imagine if instead of HD7970, GTX680 launched right now for $549 and had 25-30% more performance over your overclocked GTX480 / stock 580. Would you have said that it's OK since it's still the single fastest card for $550-600? I am pretty sure, even you expected way more out of the 7970. :biggrin:

Is it a far superior card to the 580 and 6970? Absolutely.

Watch, if GTX680 is only 20-25% faster than HD7970, but launches 6-9 months later, we'll hear: "Oh it's not impressive, the performance increase is not enough for being so many months late....etc. etc.".

Keep in mind, that GTX580 launched on November 9, 2010. We won't be able to buy HD7970 until January 9, 2012. That means it took AMD 14 months to beat an NV card by only 30% (so about 2.1% per month). So if GTX680 is only 24% faster overall than HD7970 and launches on December 9, 2012, that would be just as acceptable then?

 

[Grooveriding]

The same for AMD. It's been more than 2 years since HD5870. HD6970 was only fast enough catch up to the GTX480.

Well the 6970 was an architectural shift from the 5870. The GTX 580 is a GTX 480 with the 32 disabled shaders enabled, higher clocks, with better thermals and some other minor tweaks. At the same clocks the 580 is 6% faster than a 480, the 580 also as it happens has 6% more shaders

Where NV dropped the ball was that they said Kepler would be a 2011 part and that Fermi's 6 months delay would have no impact on Kepler. So if Fermi was supposed to launch in the fall of 2009, then we should have expected Kepler by now. This means, Fermi delay did affect Kepler.

Most likely. It's possible it would make no difference if it was here today or not to the 7970 pricing though. The card will likely be 20% faster as usual and will cost at least $550, perhaps $650. The AMD 7970 pricing may actually hurt nvidia loyalists. Nvidia is not shy about charging exorbitant prices for their top-tier cards. There is a solid chance when they get the 680 out it will cost $650. They won't price to push AMD's price down, they'll price up with performance accordingly.

Once again it's a when will they actually launch it though. It could end up another 6 month debacle and the 7970 is here now.

Either way I look forward to factory clocked 1.1-1.2ghz HD7980.

The one thing that would get me on board with the 7970s is a super impressive custom card that clocks high. Eagerly looking forward to seeing the MSI Lightning 7970. A guaranteed 1.2Ghz will make this card about 25 to 30% faster than it is currently, making it a huge leap in performance.

It doesn't have to be 2x faster. If GTX680 is just 60-65% faster than GTX580, it would make it 25% faster than HD7970. Right now HD7970 is about that much faster over a GTX580 but it took AMD 14 months to get there.

That means if NV releases a GTX680 with 25% more performance than HD7970 within the 14 months timeframe, then it would be just as impressive then. At least I will expect the exact same praise from everyone in this thread who went wild over the 25-30% performance increase of HD7970 over the 580.

Exactly. It's probably going to play out exactly this way. The only difference is people are going to swallow the huge price tag more easily because they're used to getting it dry on nvidia's flagship parts.

 

[skipsneeky2]

A factory overclocked 7970 would be the worst idea i believe.

It wouldn't sell cause the smart ones know any 7970 can do those clocks but perhaps if the price was the same it could sell .

If the price is more it would give people something else to bitch about and people have a tendency to bitch about things so if it was me i would leave the damn thing alone cut the people a break and drop the $50 so people can stop whining about its ultra high msrp...

Edit h also ensure the 7950 has gtx580 perform or damn close also that the card carries a $349 msrp while consuming power that of a gtx560ti then the 7950 will be the show stopper anything more then $399 will guarantee a whinathon...and possible fanboy war.

 

[Gloomy]

But somehow I have a feeling, the GTX680 will be dismissed as "late, again"

Isn't it though?

 

[RussianSensation]

The card will likely be 20% faster as usual and will cost at least $550, perhaps $650. It could end up another 6 month debacle and the 7970 is here now.

That would suck, and I see your point that AMD raising the price to $550 might have brought us back to historical $500-650 price levels for everyone. :'( So those days of getting a $250-280 HD5850/6950 and getting HD5870/6970 performance through unlocking/overclocking are prob. gone for a while.

In regard to Kepler: isn't 20% more performance over 7970 in 6 months more impressive than 25-30% more performance that 7970 achieved over GTX580 in 14 months? If Kepler is 20% faster and launches 6 months from now, how is that a "debacle"?

The one thing that would get me on board with the 7970s is a super impressive custom card that clocks high. Eagerly looking forward to seeing the MSI Lightning 7970. A guaranteed 1.2Ghz will make this card about 25 to 30% faster than it is currently, making it a huge leap in performance.

Agreed. Since this card is already $549, might as well drop $600-650 on MSI Lightning that can do 1.2ghz quietly.

 

[ocre]

I don't have a problem with his overall preview but it's pretty clear to me he was saying his sources told him the 7970 was a troublesome part (forget whether it was troublesome like Fermi, he said it wasn't yielding well and needed to have parts disabled to ship). And the evidence so far is that the chip is fine. There's none of the usual indications that it's poor yielding, difficult to make or jerry-rigged to work. I think the problem is his numbers were within range but the impression he gave that the 7970 is hobbled by manufacturing problems seems off-base.

Apoppin hasnt misinformed.

The 7970s the reviewers got were the cherry picked gems. Its the creme of the crop. With these chips the power draw under load isnt bad at all. But these are the gems. The 7970 can overclock like a beast with very impressive performance scaling. AMD has chosen to clock the 7970 at only 925mhz. Why such a mild speed? Power draw.

While the reviewers got the best gem chips, there is more to the story. AMD has plenty of chips that are power hungry. 925mhz isnt what they hoped for but it gives them the ability to have higher yields and more usable silicon. Its a way to make the most of what they have. But it doesnt end like so. The respins can improve the silicon and AMD will have more capable chips under the same tdp. This is the point.

AMD is making use of as many chips as possible from the silicon they already have. At the same time they are improving their node process. All this adds up to AMD having a more capable GPU just around the corner. Which means the 6970 will be a short lived chip. If all goes well, and the odds are in favor that AMD will be able to improve the silicon in very short order.

This doesnt make the 7970 bad, not at all. Their tessellation execution really impressed me. What it really means is AMD is playing a different kind of hand. We could easily be seeing AMD dropping a 7980 (or Wateva) before the yr is up. A fully improved chip that is more impressive may be just around the corner.

You may think its all good but AMD missed their goal. they made lemonade. I think they are very clever in their execution. Apoppin is telling, in a round about way, how it is. Whats goin on, behind the curtain: Its very possible AMD will be able to gain a lot from their re-spins and the 7970 be a very short lived stepping stone.

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

A factory overclocked 7970 would be the worst idea i believe.

I don't think so. Usually factory overclocked parts have better cooling solutions, so the fact that it was overclocked at "the factory" is really meaningless to an enthusiast. You're paying for the better cooler, which will allow you to attain higher overclocks. The fact that my MSI Cyclone GTX 460 was overclocked 50mhz by MSI meant nothing to me; the fact that I could boost voltage and it has a meaty HSF meant I could more than 250mhz higher than a stock GTX 460.

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

The 7970s the reviewers got were the cherry picked gems. Its the creme of the crop.

Source for this, please? I don't believe it. Or are you trolling?

Any card I've acquired - both Nvidia and ATI/AMD - has approached, met, or exceeded the OC's that most hardware review sites attain. Why should the 7970 be any different?

 

[AnandThenMan]

Apoppin hasnt misinformed.

The 7970s the reviewers got were the cherry picked gems. Its the creme of the crop. With these chips the power draw under load isnt bad at all. But these are the gems. The 7970 can overclock like a beast with very impressive performance scaling. AMD has chosen to clock the 7970 at only 925mhz. Why such a mild speed? Power draw.

While the reviewers got the best gem chips, there is more to the story. AMD has plenty of chips that are power hungry. 925mhz isnt what they hoped for but it gives them the ability to have higher yields and more usable silicon. Its a way to make the most of what they have. But it doesnt end like so. The respins can improve the silicon and AMD will have more capable chips under the same tdp. This is the point.

AMD is making use of as many chips as possible from the silicon they already have. At the same time they are improving their node process. All this adds up to AMD having a more capable GPU just around the corner. Which means the 6970 will be a short lived chip. If all goes well, and the odds are in favor that AMD will be able to improve the silicon in very short order.

This doesnt make the 7970 bad, not at all. Their tessellation execution really impressed me. What it really means is AMD is playing a different kind of hand. We could easily be seeing AMD dropping a 7980 (or Wateva) before the yr is up. A fully improved chip that is more impressive may be just around the corner.

You may think its all good but AMD missed their goal. they made lemonade. I think they are very clever in their execution. Apoppin is telling, in a round about way, how it is. Whats goin on, behind the curtain: Its very possible AMD will be able to gain a lot from their re-spins and the 7970 be a very short lived stepping stone.

Can you even begin to substantiate any of this?

 

[iCyborg]

In regard to Kepler: isn't 20% more performance over 7970 in 6 months more impressive than 25-30% more performance that 7970 achieved over GTX580 in 14 months? If Kepler is 20% faster and launches 6 months from now, how is that a "debacle"?

Depends how you look at it: if it's 20% better than 7970 that will pretty much maintain status quo from 580/6970 launch. And it will have taken them 6 months longer for that. Not very impressive to me.

 

[GaiaHunter]

In regard to Kepler: isn't 20% more performance over 7970 in 6 months more impressive than 25-30% more performance that 7970 achieved over GTX580 in 14 months? If Kepler is 20% faster and launches 6 months from now, how is that a "debacle"?

Thing is AMD basis of work wasn't the GTX580 nor will be NVIDIA basis of work the 7970.

AMD will have increased the performance over the 6970 by 40% in 1 year and NVIDIA by around 50% in 1 year and a half.