AMD questions

[hwhobbs]

i just bought an amd64 3400+ with an Asus K8V SE Deluxe motherboard.... was it a good choice?? I have been wondering about this dual channel thing. does it mean that my ram wont work in dual channel because i dont have an FX chip? my motherboard supports dual channel and i have 4 sticks of 256mb crucial pc3200 DDR400 DIMMs. does anyone feel like clearing this up for me? did i make the right choice in getting a 3400? the benchmarks look good

 

[pantner]

Ok, the 3400 is a very good CPU....

you motherboard will not support dual channel....as no 754 CPUs support dual channel, so its wasted if they include it.....

you don't need an FX for dual channel...i got a 3800 socket-939 which has it...so does the 3500 socket-939...so does the fx-53 socket-939 (and possibly the 940...but im not sure)

The 3400 is still quite a high end CPU, and that extra cache makes it a beast! (im assuming you got the one with 1024kb L2 cache...)

 

[mechBgon]

Dual-channel isn't a huge make-or-break thing here, nope. What you may be frustrated by is that the motherboard only has three memory slots and you may not be able to use three memory modules at full DDR400 speeds. If your plan was to use your four modules, then 939 would've been a better pick from that perspective. Of course, you can sell off your 256's and get 512's or a single 1024 module if it comes right down to it.

 

[hwhobbs]

yea i was planning on buying more ram at some point, but with 784mb and a "beast" of a cpu, im sure i will be able to run anything i want, including hl2 and cs2 very smoothly. and yes i got the 3400 with 1mb cache, i woud be an idiot if i didnt

 

[pantner]

Hmm....784mb of RAM

Ive heard of people running RAM like that (a weird amount) and they get better performace with 512mb RAM.....i'd get 2x512 or 1x1024 (its not worth getting 2x1024!!!!)

 

[GhandiInstinct]

Partner: How is that 3800? Are you lagging in any games? Multi-tasking good? Just curious if that extra 200mhz is worth the extra $200.

 

[pantner]

well, let me put it this way...

i do 3D rendering with 3D Studio...before, on my AXP 3200 it would take me about 8-9mins to render a particluar scene....with this, and the only difference the MB and CPU, it did the same scene in 1min and 1sec!!!!

so, there it really is noticeable!!!

i've had someone state that their 3500 is almost as good (in Aquamark3) as my 3800 (both socket 939), however, my CPU was at stock, and his was overclocked to my speed (2.2 up to 2.4)....if i bump up my FSB to 210 (210*12, watever that it!!) then i leave him for dead (i think he had to go up to 218!!)

10500 CPU score in aquamark at stock, about 11300 at 210FSB(the guy above got 9700 or something)...haven't been able to go any higher and have AQ3 actually finish successfully...

and yes, i do lag in games.....cause of my 5700 (non-ultra)....im gonna upgrade soon to a Albatron 6800u....and please look at my other topic in the video section if you have any comments on the Albatron 6800!

 

[hwhobbs]

sorry i meant 768mb (3x 256mb). Is the Asus K8V SE a good motherboard for A64? I ordered my 3400+ and that motherboard last night and i just wanted some input (AMD is still a little new to me).... thanks! some benchmark tests showed that the 3400+ beat the FX-51 (3500+ right?) in a bunch of tests, which almost shows that the 1mb cache on the 3400 must help a lot

 

[Imyourzero]

Originally posted by: hwhobbs
sorry i meant 768mb (3x 256mb). Is the Asus K8V SE a good motherboard for A64? I ordered my 3400+ and that motherboard last night and i just wanted some input (AMD is still a little new to me).... thanks! some benchmark tests showed that the 3400+ beat the FX-51 (3500+ right?) in a bunch of tests, which almost shows that the 1mb cache on the 3400 must help a lot

First of all, the FX-51 isn't the same as the 3500+ (the 3500+ has 512k of cache; all of the FX-series chips come with more than 512k)

Second of all, as far as the extra cache helping...I've done a lot of reading on these CPU's because I'm getting ready to do a system upgrade, and there are a LOT of contradicting opinions on the subject. Some say that the extra cache helps a lot and offsets the higher clock speeds of other processors, while others say that the extra cache really isn't as critical on AMD CPU's due to the shorter pipeline and won't help performance as much as the Intel CPU's. Personally, I think it just depends on the application. Some apps see an improvement from the extra cache and others don't. Evidence of that can be seen when comparing the 3400+ ClawHammer (2.2 GHz/1MB) with the 3400+ Newcastle (2.4 GHz/512k). The ClawHammer wins some benches due to the extra cache, while the Newcastle wins others due to the higher clock speed. And that's just comparing Socket 754 chips. If you add the Socket 939 chips into the mix, like the 3500+ which is 2.2 GHz with 512k of cache, things get even more interesting. In some tests it comes out ahead over both of the 3400+ CPU's due to Socket 939's dual-channel memory support, and in other tests the 3400+ chips squeak by. Most people argue that the dual-channel memory support doesn't significantly increase performance (typically just a few percent or a few frames per second) but the same thing can be said about extra cache...round and round we go...

In the end, they are all very close/similar in performance for most apps. Unless you spend a lot of time running apps that really benefit from the extra cache, I'd probably just go with whatever you can find the cheapest...or if you're really concerned about upgradability and not becoming obsolete as quickly, go with Socket 939.

 

[mechBgon]

What you'll want to watch is the speed that the memory ends up at. If the board brings the memory speed down to PC1600 in order to run three modules, you won't get all the performance you were expecting (duh). I can let you know in advance that it's often beneficial to set your memory voltage manually, and depending on the brand and model of the modules you might want to just bump it to 2.6V, or you might want to go a little further.

As a diagnostic tool, use CPU-Z and you want to see a 1:1 ratio in the memory panel's FSBRAM box. That indicates PC3200 speed on the RAM.

 

[trexpesto]

Anybody hear about Asus boards not liking Mushkin memory? Was that only on Socket A?

Edit: you can get 512's of Corsair CAS 2.5 for like 79$ shipped from newegg - with a free pen.

Fry's may be having a rebate sale on corsair and mushkin memory if you are near one, might be CAS3 though.

 

[trexpesto]

Originally posted by: Imyourzero
..or if you're really concerned about upgradability and not becoming obsolete as quickly, go with Socket 939.

Many many people have posted that Socket 754 is the best for PricePerformance ratio, and not to worry about your upgrade path because by the time that rolls around (ie when socket 939 prices have dropped), they will want a new mobo, cpu, and vid card. That sounds very realistic to me. Save 200-300 now and get just about the same performance.

 

[GhandiInstinct]

ImYourZero: You are dead on. The most dead on than anybody else.

Trexpesto: Actuall 939 is a little bit higher in performance. And the mobo difference is about $20. So I'd rather spend a little extra to get all the goodies that come with owning a 939 system.

 

[trexpesto]

Originally posted by: GhandiInstinct
ImYourZero: You are dead on. The most dead on than anybody else.

Trexpesto: Actuall 939 is a little bit higher in performance. And the mobo difference is about $20. So I'd rather spend a little extra to get all the goodies that come with owning a 939 system.

and 150 more for the procs.. guess that's why they are enthusiast.

Besides dual channel, what are the goodies? DDR2, PCI-Express are not out yet, right?

 

[GhandiInstinct]

No, the 3500+ is actually at its MSRP cheaper than the 3400+.

DDR2 667 and 800 aren't out or supported yet. PCI-E isn't any better than AGP. THe ultimate machines are coming out in a year and half or so, with dual-core DDR2 800+ and PCI-E optimized.

 

[hwhobbs]

first of all ghandi, way to make me feel regret about purchasing the 3400+, even tho its just as good as your 3500+, which costs 100$ more than a 3400+ at oem. some people dont have as much money(i do but i dont like to spend it all) to spend on a chip that isnt that much more different than skt. 754's.

 

[GhandiInstinct]

lol sorry HWHOBBS. 3500+ MSRP is $350 which is $10 less than the 3400. Right now they're having stock issues.

But yea, I spend only $350 on a cpu that out performs your 3400+ in all non-cache need applications. Not only that, I have 939 socket which will be future proof for two years! So won't have to spend money upgrading my socket.

Your 754 is dying and almost dead.

 

[hwhobbs]

that helps even more.... ill just sell it.... at least the water-block i got is "future proof"..... the amd64 i got will work out for a while... i got it for 290$ OEM

 

[pantner]

yeah, the new 90nm AMD CPUs are socket 939!!!

and 'hwhobbs'...u got an A64 CPU OEM????????

i didn't know you could get A64s OEM!!!!!! (and i work in a retail store!) but you don't get the same warrenty that you get with boxed ones! (not that we care!!!)

 

[trexpesto]

Originally posted by: pantner
yeah, the new 90nm AMD CPUs are socket 939!!!

and 'hwhobbs'...u got an A64 CPU OEM????????

i didn't know you could get A64s OEM!!!!!! (and i work in a retail store!) but you don't get the same warrenty that you get with boxed ones! (not that we care!!!)

OEM 3400+ Newcastle core 2.4GHz 512K Cache $283

OEM 3400+ ClawHammer core 2.2GHz 1MB Cache $280


Edit Monarch has the
OEM 939 3500+ 2.2GHz 512K Cache $370 vs 425 Retail at Newegg.
Buyxtremegear has it for $345 on pricewatch, but they only have 76% positive rating.. So not that big a price diff. Between 65 and 90 depending where you get it.. Edit: Fixed price at neg

So the 3500+ has the worse GHz and the worse Cache from the 3400's? I bet there is a thread about that already....

 

[hwhobbs]

yea, the warranty rarely comes in handy, and you can save 20-50$ through OEM!

 

[GhandiInstinct]

If you're paying that much money for something, you better get a warranty.

 

[hwhobbs]

i have built many computers and i have never had to utilize the warranty that came with a retail cpu.... i have water-cooling so its almost useless to buy retail because i dont need the hsf

 

[GhandiInstinct]

When that water cooling leaks, and you have fried chips and board, that warranty would help a little.

 

[pantner]

i don't think the warrenty covers "Death by Water Cooling Leakage"...that would be the same as spilling a drink on your motherboard and then trying to claim that on warrenty...