AMD PR rating? Will it continue to 'work?'

[SinfulWeeper]

When Intels new 200fsb and 1MB cache CPU's arrive?
Seems to me unless AMD pulls a miracle out of their basket. Their PR rating for their lack of MHz's will become useless unless more cycles can come of their chips. But even right now they have a lot of trouble cranking out 3000+ CPU's.

<--- Not wanting a AMD/Intel war here.
Just how will AMD compete? They need a new scalable core, and the XP is not it as it hit the wall. Else a 3200+ should have been released by now.

 

[bgeh]

The P4 200MHz FSB can still be countered with the Barton 3200+ 400MHz FSB
AMD Athlon 64 should be able to compete with Intel's Prescott

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: bgeh
The P4 200MHz FSB can still be countered with the Barton 3200+ 400MHz FSB
AMD Athlon 64 should be able to compete with Intel's Prescott

The pr rating system doesn't work now!!! As we all saw a 3000+ barton ending up looking a lot like a 2800+ tbred.....

Also if intel just goes 200fsb then yes it wont take too much to stay close...HOwever the implemetation of HT even in the lower 2.4ghz chips is more significant...What are they going to counteract with that. The 2400+ tbred will now fall further beyond in fsb and not have the nice boost in HT for many multitasking apps. I think in the lower range the spread will be more significant. It could be counteracted somewhat by continual amd price drops so that a pr rated speed amd is not close in price to its p4 counterpart.

 

[SinfulWeeper]

I do not think the Athlon 64 will be fast until 64 bit software is readily available. Otherwise I just fail to see how it can be faster.
Duvie nailed it. I forgot to mention about HT in my first post.
I want AMD to surpass Intel as that lowers prices on CPU's. But as of now... I do not see any rabbits coming out of AMD's hat.

 

[HappyNic]

Originally posted by: SinfulWeeper
When Intels new 200fsb and 1MB cache CPU's arrive?
Seems to me unless AMD pulls a miracle out of their basket. Their PR rating for their lack of MHz's will become useless unless more cycles can come of their chips. But even right now they have a lot of trouble cranking out 3000+ CPU's.

<--- Not wanting a AMD/Intel war here.
Just how will AMD compete? They need a new scalable core, and the XP is not it as it hit the wall. Else a 3200+ should have been released by now.

How much would that 200fsb intel Cpu with 1MB cache be? And how much would a compareable AMD cpu cost. Would AMD also incoperate something similar to intels Hyper treading on their new cpus?, What about AMD Athlon 64, what if they decided to relese these at a much lower price than expected?..

What I'm saying is AMD will also change inorder to compete with Intel, just like how Intel added caches on their P4, Hyper Treading, higher FSH, etc. As of right now the PR sytem is fine, as for the future it doesn't matter cause the current PR system is for current P4s.

 

[pillage2001]

How much would the 1mb CPUs cost??? The higher the cache, the more expensive it is as far as I see it. It would be nice to see the performance though.

 

[Soulkeeper]

amd will adjust their PR rating when the 400mh fsb bartons hit the scene
I hope the rating they give it is atleast enough to match an 800mhz fsb P4 with HT enabled

 

[SinfulWeeper]

<--- Hopes they can ditch the PR rating entirely and actually put out higher GHz CPU's.

I loved the prices of CPU's when AMD put out the 1GHz CPU and Intel only had theirs on paper.

 

[Soulkeeper]

yeah i remember that
i payed 200 for my 1ghz t-bird when it was top of the line
now you gotta fork out like 600+ for the top dawg cpu's
you still can't beat the 1700+ prices tho gotta love those

 

[DivideBYZero]

The Opterons are already moving away from the PR monika.

Don't lets forget that the Barton is a stopgap proc, and even if the likes of Duvie (lets not flame-war again ) don't like the 3000+ or 3200+ ratings, they are placeholders for the introduction of A64.

Things get more interesting when you factor in MS' Anvil OS and the fact that Intels 32/64bit migration path is in tatters. We all know that 64bit is no big shiznit in the short term,, but to get a jump on intel like this is going to be quite a coup if it all comes off.

Now A64 AFAIK will also use PR, but the differentiator in the minds of the buyers will be of a product in advance of Intels 32bit offering(whether it is or not is not disputed here). Will they bring the fabled YAMHILL to the party? If they do, will this only strengthen AMD position and strategy?

Lets not go on about PR. It's an easy target and has little or no benefit except for the odd flame war about it. It's been done to death, lets let it lie.

The game is about more than PR, it's about the next phase of the game, and it's about to begin.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
The Opterons are already moving away from the PR monika.

Don't lets forget that the Barton is a stopgap proc, and even if the likes of Duvie (lets not flame-war again ) don't like the 3000+ or 3200+ ratings, they are placeholders for the introduction of A64.

Things get more interesting when you factor in MS' Anvil OS and the fact that Intels 32/64bit migration path is in tatters. We all know that 64bit is no big shiznit in the short term,, but to get a jump on intel like this is going to be quite a coup if it all comes off.

Now A64 AFAIK will also use PR, but the differentiator in the minds of the buyers will be of a product in advance of Intels 32bit offering(whether it is or not is not disputed here). Will they bring the fabled YAMHILL to the party? If they do, will this only strengthen AMD position and strategy?

Lets not go on about PR. It's an easy target and has little or no benefit except for the odd flame war about it. It's been done to death, lets let it lie.

The game is about more than PR, it's about the next phase of the game, and it's about to begin.

I can care less about the pr rating of the 3000+ and 3200+...Tha fact is the reviews speak for themselves and even many amd users were dissatisfied with it....


Back to the main thread...With the opteron well off in the distance still and constantly delayed the 800mhz fsb chips with HT at the 2.4ghz and above chips will long be out as well as intel's chipset advancements in dual ddr.

I am not sure about the prescott and its arrival in relations to opteron, but my guess from my sources it is just waiting until amd can finally get theirs out....The 800mhz fsb with HT (1) with the northwood chips is intels "hold and wait for AMD" chip....

 

[Banana]

Originally posted by: Duvie
...With the opteron well off in the distance still and constantly delayed

I thought AMD was launching Opteron this month? Was THIS an April Fools joke then??

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
The Opterons are already moving away from the PR monika.

Don't lets forget that the Barton is a stopgap proc, and even if the likes of Duvie (lets not flame-war again ) don't like the 3000+ or 3200+ ratings, they are placeholders for the introduction of A64.

Things get more interesting when you factor in MS' Anvil OS and the fact that Intels 32/64bit migration path is in tatters. We all know that 64bit is no big shiznit in the short term,, but to get a jump on intel like this is going to be quite a coup if it all comes off.

Now A64 AFAIK will also use PR, but the differentiator in the minds of the buyers will be of a product in advance of Intels 32bit offering(whether it is or not is not disputed here). Will they bring the fabled YAMHILL to the party? If they do, will this only strengthen AMD position and strategy?

Lets not go on about PR. It's an easy target and has little or no benefit except for the odd flame war about it. It's been done to death, lets let it lie.

The game is about more than PR, it's about the next phase of the game, and it's about to begin.

I can care less about the pr rating of the 3000+ and 3200+...Tha fact is the reviews speak for themselves and even many amd users were dissatisfied with it....


Back to the main thread...With the opteron well off in the distance still and constantly delayed the 800mhz fsb chips with HT at the 2.4ghz and above chips will long be out as well as intel's chipset advancements in dual ddr.

I am not sure about the prescott and its arrival in relations to opteron, but my guess from my sources it is just waiting until amd can finally get theirs out....The 800mhz fsb with HT (1) with the northwood chips is intels "hold and wait for AMD" chip....

Opteron is out this month. Sorry to burst the bubble.

 

[Duvie]

OPteron the business one???? My mistake then as I was referring to the desktop model...I assumed from past articles the two would come at different time schedules.....


As for the bubble comment.....Once again you little arse I can care less about AMD's schedule...I wait to judge things when they are out and reviewed. Don't act high and mighty to me....

 

[DAPUNISHER]

AMD's PR has accomplished an unintended goal, to thwart Intel from using it now With Banias having strong IPC and confronted with the prospect of educating the public that a lower clocked CPU could be faster than a higher clocked CPU *cough*PR*cough* they instead focused on marketing the mobility and power savings the Centrino package offers. It does nothing to further AMD's business goals but it is an ironic twist that Intel should now have a chip with strong IPC/lower clock speedand that they can't trumpet it from the highest tower.

 

[specktre]

must you intel fanboyz forget that intel is using a pr rating of their own as we speak, just take a look at their procs. the have a 1.6ghz, a 1.6A, and a 1.6B. so wtf. oh and BTW who cares about the whole intel is faster than AMD, or AMD is faster than intel, I personally could care less. I will admit I am an AMD fan, but I give intel its props for HT, and 400mhz. I know it's gonna be a fast chip, but i don't care if it beats AMD's fastest offering at the time, because I don't have the cash to buy either one.

to me the only thing the fasest chip is good for is to bring down the prices on the previous performance leading proc.

I could give a rats ass about the whole PR-rating as well. if AMD didn't have these ratings I would still buy their chips.

the tyranny of MHZ. is over, long live the PR-Rating

 

[zShowtimez]

"just take a look at their procs. the have a 1.6ghz, a 1.6A, and a 1.6B."

Thats just to tell the difference between FSB right?

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: specktre
must you intel fanboyz forget that intel is using a pr rating of their own as we speak, just take a look at their procs. the have a 1.6ghz, a 1.6A, and a 1.6B. so wtf. oh and BTW who cares about the whole intel is faster than AMD, or AMD is faster than intel, I personally could care less. I will admit I am an AMD fan, but I give intel its props for HT, and 400mhz. I know it's gonna be a fast chip, but i don't care if it beats AMD's fastest offering at the time, because I don't have the cash to buy either one.

to me the only thing the fasest chip is good for is to bring down the prices on the previous performance leading proc.

I could give a rats ass about the whole PR-rating as well. if AMD didn't have these ratings I would still buy their chips.

the tyranny of MHZ. is over, long live the PR-Rating

pr rating is a 1.6a??? that may be the dumbest comparison I have heard yet!!! Tha fact is 1.6ghz is correct on all of them...If intel had used a pr rating to the willamette (much like amd does with the T-bird ***bullshite***) the 1.6a would be called an 1800 do to the added cache....

Pr rating is fine with me...I think it served a purpose since it was obvious the average joe would not get a slower clocked chip could be equal or faster then a much higher speed chip....The only part that has lost me since the 1400-2200+ days of the xp chips is the the fact every time a chip gained 66mhz in speed it equated to 100+ in rating. That has lead to the fact the amd rartings at one time were really conservative and now to the point they are overly ambitious...

 

[SinfulWeeper]

Intel setups can be built just as low priced as AMD setups. Lets just say I wanted to upgrade my very old Duron 600MHz to a 2.53GHz or 2500+ system, here is a breakdown of low cost specs with decent performance from everyones 'favorite' store Newegg. (No OC'ing involved, besides... Intel chips seem to OC better )

Intel based.
ECS P4VMM2 $56.00
Intel 2.53GHz CPU (Retail) $185
512MB PC2700 Kingston $64.50
GF4 Ti4200 (Asus) $127.99
Total cost $436.39

AMD based
K75SA Pro $56.00
AthlonXP 2500+ Barton (Retail) $163.00
512MB PC2700 Kingston $64.50
GF4 Ti4200 (Asus) $127.99
Total Cost $411.49

Price difference $24.90, AMD wins

Now that was for low end junkie motherboards that nobody in their right mind should want to own. Now if we get into a slightly better class motherboard with better performance but not top of the line (still using the other same products) lets see what we come up with. (Based on Anandtech members saying Via chipsets sux, leaves NF2 as the viable option. But will include a Via 400 anyway.)

Change motherboard for Intel based to say an...

Abit SG-71 (yuk ) $76.00
Abit BH7 $92.00
Abit IT7-Max2 v.2 $165.00

Abit NF7 $105.00
Abit KD7 $88.00
Abit AT7-Max2 165.00

As you can see there is little to no price difference for AMD vs. Intel, I can never why people claim AMD systems cost much less than a Intel. You want even a lower priced Intel system, buy a Dell (gross).
The return arguement the I suppose is buy an eMachine's (ROFLMAO).

I suppose you can say going on the total budget AMD wins by $25. But $25 will not make or break anybody. If your that up tight on money, you do not deserve to own a computer. Sell yours and use the public libraries or something till you can get more funds as $25 is pathetic, you need the extra money.

But getting back on point, when will AMD's new chip hit 'main street', not the corperate buildings?

 

[oldfart]

Originally posted by: specktre
must you intel fanboyz forget that intel is using a pr rating of their own as we speak, just take a look at their procs. the have a 1.6ghz, a 1.6A, and a 1.6B. so wtf.

What the heck are you talking about? 1.6 = Socket 423 Willamette. 1.6A = Socket 478 Northwood. 1.6B? Never heard of it. The "A" is just to differentiate between Northwood and Willamette.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: oldfart

Originally posted by: specktre
must you intel fanboyz forget that intel is using a pr rating of their own as we speak, just take a look at their procs. the have a 1.6ghz, a 1.6A, and a 1.6B. so wtf.

What the heck are you talking about? 1.6 = Socket 423 Willamette. 1.6A = Socket 478 Northwood. 1.6B? Never heard of it. The "A" is just to differentiate between Northwood and Willamette.

Yeah, judging by this guys avatar he definitely needs to stop hitting the hashpipe.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: oldfart

Originally posted by: specktre
must you intel fanboyz forget that intel is using a pr rating of their own as we speak, just take a look at their procs. the have a 1.6ghz, a 1.6A, and a 1.6B. so wtf.

What the heck are you talking about? 1.6 = Socket 423 Willamette. 1.6A = Socket 478 Northwood. 1.6B? Never heard of it. The "A" is just to differentiate between Northwood and Willamette.

I know!!! Raving endorsement of an AMD user!!!

 

[SickBeast]

Hey I read somewhere that Intel is going to have to adopt their own PR system once they release their 64-bit chips. Just some food for thought.

Duvie is right about the PR system tho, it's terrible. They really messed up with the bartons. I wouldn't underestimate AMD tho, they may have their backs up against the wall, but they are a world class company and I have no doubt that they will be able to continue to compete with Intel for many years to come.

 

[SinfulWeeper]

I hope so.
<--- Really wants it to happen. But right now all I see AMD saying is what Tom Cruise said in Jerry McGuire
"I can't compete with that."

<--- Also thinks the Barton PR rating would beat Intel if they gave each stock CPU 200 more MHz... I mean everyones OC's that high anyway. They should have made it so.

 

[oldfart]

FWIW, I'm all in favor of PR ratings. MHz is not a good indicator of performance. There would have to be a preset set of measurments all mfgrs would use.