Question AMD Phoenix/Zen 4 APU Speculation and Discussion

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igor_kavinski

Lifer
Jul 27, 2020
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One thing I hate is that I suspect AMD is in no hurry to release client stuff as soon as it's ready because they wait for existing inventory to deplete to a certain level. They possibly try to be ambitious, create more client chips than the market wants at AMD's desired prices and then wait it out to sell those chips with discounts over the lifetime of the product, instead of giving them away to OEMs at dirtcheap prices like Intel.
 
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SteinFG

SteinFG

Senior member
Dec 29, 2021
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igor_kavinski said:
One thing I hate is that I suspect AMD is in no hurry to release client stuff as soon as it's ready because they wait for existing inventory to deplete to a certain level. They possibly try to be ambitious, create more client chips than the market wants at AMD's desired prices and then wait it out to sell those chips with discounts over the lifetime of the product, instead of giving them away to OEMs at dirtcheap prices like Intel.
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Don't think that's what's happening. If you're talking about desktop, AMD just prices the new generation high and waits. Zen 3, Zen 4 launched like that, and I assume Zen 5 will launch like that
 
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igor_kavinski

Lifer
Jul 27, 2020
28,010
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moinmoin said:
Well sure, no company outside of Nokia under Elop is going to negligently kill its currently available products.
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Why don't they try the strategy of keeping both on the market without discounting Zen 4? People who don't know any better and who just want a decent laptop will buy the Zen 4 one without being any the wiser. Same thing with Zen 4 desktop, though I can see people not wanting the 7900X(3D)/7950X(3D) at their current prices after Zen 5 launch. That's not a big deal, they should just try it and see what happens. The world isn't going to end.
 
NTMBK

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,443
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igor_kavinski said:
One thing I hate is that I suspect AMD is in no hurry to release client stuff as soon as it's ready because they wait for existing inventory to deplete to a certain level. They possibly try to be ambitious, create more client chips than the market wants at AMD's desired prices and then wait it out to sell those chips with discounts over the lifetime of the product, instead of giving them away to OEMs at dirtcheap prices like Intel.
Click to expand...
That would be very wasteful. AMD would be spending money on warehouses to hold the unsold product, and more importantly they wasted TSMC wafer allocations that could have gone towards better selling or higher margin products.
 
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jpiniero

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Oct 1, 2010
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Joe NYC

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Jun 26, 2021
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jpiniero said:
videocardz.com

AMD to introduce Ryzen 7 8700F and Ryzen 5 8400F tomorrow: Zen4 AM5 CPUs without integrated graphics - VideoCardz.com

AMD advertises a graphics-free Ryzen 8000F with… RDNA3 graphics The Hawk Point desktop APU without graphics launches globally tomorrow. Ryzen 8000F Series, Source:AMD As expected, AMD is introducing its Ryzen 8000F series based on a mobile APU design for desktops. This release follows the launch...
videocardz.com videocardz.com

Hawk Point F launches tomorrow, according to Videocardz.
Click to expand...

I am missing the point of this CPU.

Only point I could see if some OEM is requesting it.
 
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Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
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Joe NYC said:
I am missing the point of this CPU.

Only point I could see if some OEM is requesting it.
Click to expand...

It s the other way around, OEMs are not interested since they want Strix/Hawk Point with a functional GPU either for laptops or office PCs, these SKUs are released to off load chips with defective GPUs on the DIY market as cheap solutions for gaming and somme basic AI, that s plainly written on AMD s slide.
 
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Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
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jpiniero said:
It's up on Newegg. The 8400F is a whopping $7 cheaper than the 8500G. The 8700F is $12 cheaper than the 7700.
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I was discussing the exact same thing with my boss today, AMD reps are pushing for this and for once he was the first to point me to the 8500G, when you can sell 8500G with and whiout DGPU, whats the point in a 8400F at a marginal discount? Not to mention there is the 7600 with all pcie lanes.
 
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SteinFG

SteinFG

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Dec 29, 2021
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It's a decent deal at 150 maybe, like a replacement for 5600. not an upgrade, replacement. Just like 5500 is a replacement of 3600.
 
SteinFG

SteinFG

Senior member
Dec 29, 2021
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They screwed up a bit with small phoenix, not giving it enough PCIe. Even 20 lanes would be enough, 8 for GPU, 12 for the rest. But 4 for the GPU is too small. So now they can't even convinse people to pair it with a midrange GPU, thus using the big chip for F sku. There was also a leak of strix point and kraken having only 16 PCIe lanes, which is not good.
 
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I

igor_kavinski

Lifer
Jul 27, 2020
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These are third world market products where a dollar might be a really good meal.

And it's better value than a Core i3 anyway, due to AVX-512, especially for emulation enthusiasts.
 
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hemedans

Senior member
Jan 31, 2015
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igor_kavinski said:
These are third world market products where a dollar might be a really good meal.

And it's better value than a Core i3 anyway, due to AVX-512, especially for emulation enthusiasts.
Click to expand...
3rd world don't buy new though, for that price you get full machine with i3 12100 or 3600/4600G
 
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Shivansps

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Sep 11, 2013
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igor_kavinski said:
These are third world market products where a dollar might be a really good meal.

And it's better value than a Core i3 anyway, due to AVX-512, especially for emulation enthusiasts.
Click to expand...
Third world is all about AM4 APUs, the 4600G and the 5600G in particular are very popular. Followed by the 5700G... I3s are very unpopular, people buying the Intel brand generally go for I5 or I7s.

In fact AMD is now dealing with a little know screw up with the 4600Gs all over LA, we are talking about hundreds of malfunctioning 4600G with GPU problems, that goes from flickering on the lower part of hardware accelerated youtube videos (Amazon and Netflix too) to some games crashing.

AM5 was literally 0 until the 8500G and 8600G came along, it slowly starting to pickup, but im petty sure thats just replacing 5700G sales.

Im not sure what AMD wants with the 8400F they dont even have a good budget GPU to pair them with, as the 6400 and 6500 XT are a joke.
 
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GunsMadeAmericaFree

Golden Member
Jan 23, 2007
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Ryzen 8400F doesn't really seem to be much of a decent choice - I think most folks would just hold on with their AM4 system rather than buy it.
 
A

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,885
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Joe NYC said:
AMD starting to sell 7600x3d more widely. It was a "special" for only Micro Center and Mind Factory:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1947715213991526588
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Actualy Mindfactory lost exclusivity in Germany three months ago, since then
it s sold by several retailers.

geizhals.de

AMD Ryzen 5 7600X3D, 6C/12T, 4.10-4.70GHz, boxed ohne Kühler ab € 268,90 (2025) | Preisvergleich Geizhals Deutschland

✔ Preisvergleich für AMD Ryzen 5 7600X3D, 6C/12T, 4.10-4.70GHz, boxed ohne Kühler ✔ Bewertungen ✔ Produktinfo ⇒ Kerne: 6 (6C) • Threads: 12 • Turbotakt: 4.70GHz • Basistakt: 4.10GHz… ✔ AMD ✔ Testberichte ✔ Günstig kaufen
geizhals.de geizhals.de
 
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LightningZ71

Platinum Member
Mar 10, 2017
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Kraken makes more sense on desktop AM5 as it's far less memory bound and can provide lower core counts at lower silicon cost. Strix Point on AM5 always was confusing as it would be pushing up to 12 cores against existing 12 core products and have an iGPU that's even more hamstrung by memory throughput. There's one slot that MIGHT work: They could potentially take Z2E/die recovery units that don't make power at voltage spec and push them on desktop. They would be 10 cores and could slot in above the 9700x in the stack. With adequate cooling on an ITX board and overclocked ram, it might make a case for itself.
 
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