Question AMD Phoenix/Zen 4 APU Speculation and Discussion

[uzzi38]

I can finally make this thread.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1519669375283957760

Phoenix is indeed RDNA3. My advice to everyone: treat the old APU rumours as being out of date.

 

[moinmoin]

gnome desktop vs kde

Thanks, that's the kind of info I was missing. Personally not a fan of Gnome, so ChimeraOS using it checks out.

And it isn't using HoloISO at all (it predates it)

HoloISO is just an archiso configuration: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/archiso
ChimeraOS could be turned into an archiso configuration as well, way more easily if the software would be documented.

It also isn't a black box. All of their code is on github. The image building repo is here, where you can see what set of kernel / drivers, etc they are using:

I'm well aware of their github repos. Claiming that the code is the documentation is a very bad habit of us programmers though.

Bazzite is also an option. Its an OCI image based on Fedora Silverblue/uBlue (immutable base system) and uses a "cloud native" approach to install all of the gaming stuff in an arch container.

That's neat. So wine bottles in arch containers?

 

[FlameTail]

So I just visited two local computer stores to checkout some AMD laptops (and no- I don't want to buy one. I went merely put of curiosity).

Wanted to check Zen 4 availability. And the results:

Not a single laptop under $1000 had Rembrandt or Phoenix. Everything was Cezanne and Renoir.

Cheapest laptop with Rembrandt was around $1200. And there wasn't a single laptop with Phoenix.

Horrible.

Edit: I am not in the US; Prices are converted to USD from local currency.

 

[Thibsie]

Local store? Not surprised.

 

[FlameTail]

They are the 2 biggest computer store chains in the entire country.

If they don't have them, then there is almost no chance any other store does.

 

[Thibsie]

They are the 2 biggest computer store chains in the entire country.

If they don't have them, then there is almost no chance any other store does.

I get it. I'm just not surprised AMD isn't well represented in shops. Always have been like that.
Easier to sell cr@p when the sticker shows Intel.

 

[FlameTail]

The issue is not that. It's the limited availability of Phoenix and Rembrandt.

There were plenty of AMD laptops under $1000, but they were all using Cezanne and Renoir.

 

[moinmoin]

The issue is not that. It's the limited availability of Phoenix and Rembrandt.

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. Going by that you could as well spin it to say those fly off the shelves right whenever they arrive. Neither claim can be proven by anecdotes.

 

[FlameTail]

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. Going by that you could as well spin it to say those fly off the shelves right whenever they arrive. Neither claim can be proven by anecdotes.

Of course. It's merely anecdotal, not statistical.

 

[Abwx]

So I just visited two local computer stores to checkout some AMD laptops (and no- I don't want to buy one. I went merely put of curiosity).

Wanted to check Zen 4 availability. And the results:

Not a single laptop under $1000 had Rembrandt or Phoenix. Everything was Cezanne and Renoir.

Cheapest laptop with Rembrandt was around $1200. And there wasn't a single laptop with Phoenix.

Horrible.

Edit: I am not in the US; Prices are converted to USD from local currency.

Your stores are run by cluless people :

https://www.notebookcheck.net/HP-Pavilion-Plus-14-Ryzen-7-laptop-review-Changes-in-all-the-right-places.765524.0.html

I guess that you did surely find the Intel variant, for 100$ more and half the CPU perfs :

https://www.notebookcheck.net/HP-Pavilion-Plus-14-Core-i7-Review-Intel-Raptor-Lake-or-AMD-Zen-4-The-choice-is-clear.777435.0.html

 

[gdansk]

Speaking of availability: there is that aforementioned HP 14" laptop with 7840U available at Costco for $600. And the display is 2880 x 1800 120Hz OLED.

Maybe it took a while for Phoenix availability to pan out but it ended up in some decent, affordable devices.

 

[jpiniero]

Speaking of availability: there is that aforementioned HP 14" laptop with 7840U available at Costco for $600. And the display is 2880 x 1800 120Hz OLED.

Maybe it took a while for Phoenix availability to pan out but it ended up in some decent, affordable devices.

That's kind of a hot deal, even with having to pay $15 shipping. But you have to be a Costco member.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

I couldn't contain myself and bought a Phoenix Laptop.
Why?
It had a great price, MTL turned out to be a disappointment and Strix Point is too far away.

Lenovo IdeaPad Pro 5 14APH8 with 7840HS + 32GB 6400 + 1TB for only €981 taxes included, I think It was a great buy for that money. There is also a free option for warranty extension by 1 year, I just need to register on Lenovo website within 14 days.
Here is a review I found of my model. Link

Didn't play with It much, basically just started It. Windows 11 is an utter ****.
This laptop looks and feels very good, all metal except the inside of the lid and the part which is connecting It to the base, they should be plastic.
If you check out the review, It doesn't have many issues, more like only minor ones.
What is not mentioned there is that the ports don't align very well with the openings, so It's a bit harder to plug anything into them, especially USB A's on the right side.

Spoiler: Quality issue

Mine is a bit better than this one on the picture.

 

[eek2121]

MSI claims to have 256gb DDR5 working at what appears to be DDR5-6000 (judging from screenshots) in 2dpc mode: https://videocardz.com/newz/msi-teases-256gb-memory-support-on-amd-x670-motherboard

So I just visited two local computer stores to checkout some AMD laptops (and no- I don't want to buy one. I went merely put of curiosity).

Wanted to check Zen 4 availability. And the results:

Not a single laptop under $1000 had Rembrandt or Phoenix. Everything was Cezanne and Renoir.

Cheapest laptop with Rembrandt was around $1200. And there wasn't a single laptop with Phoenix.

Horrible.

Edit: I am not in the US; Prices are converted to USD from local currency.

Here in the US, local stores always have limited supply and high prices. If you want a laptop, you order it online.

If I go to a local store I am looking at low end Intel stuff or even lower end (or out if date) AMD stuff.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Ok, here is some testing I did on my Phoenix laptop. I basically wanted to see scores for different thread count set in CB R23 and here are the results.
In Lenovo Vantage Intelligent Cooling was set and in windows the power mode was balanced.

CB R23 (10min duration)	Points	Frequency	Power consumption
1 Thread	1654	~4.37-4.55GHz	16-19W
2 Threads	3262	~4.43-4.63GHz	24-27W
3 Threads	4850	~4.42-4.67GHz	34-35W
4 Threads	6409	~4.36-4.69GHz	37-40W
5 Threads	7958	~4.36-4.69GHz	45-47W
6 Threads	9399	~4.36-4.69GHz	47-50W
7 Threads	10750	~4.38-4.51GHz	53-54W
8 Threads	11812	~4.31-4.35GHz	53-54W

9 Threads	12399	~4.26-4.35GHz	53-54W
12 Threads	13830	~4.24-4.28GHz	53-54W
16 Threads	15579	~4.13.-4.16GHz	53-54W

If I closed AMD Adrenaline where I was checking power consumption, then I ended up with 4.7-4.78GHz at 1T.
If I minimized CB R23, then I would gain another 100-120MHz according to Task Manager and end up with 1752 pts at 1T and 15784 pts at 16T.

P.S. I also tried Extreme performance in Vantage and Best performance mode. The result was 4.25-4.29GHz, 15962pts and 59-60W. Highest 1T was only 1782pts, for some reason I didn't achieve even 5GHz.

 

[FlameTail]

So Phoenix (the big one) doesn't have any parts with just 4 cores?

TSMC N4 yields must be too good.

 

[Schmide]

I couldn't contain myself and bought a Phoenix Laptop.
Why?
It had a great price, MTL turned out to be a disappointment and Strix Point is too far away.

Lenovo IdeaPad Pro 5 14APH8 with 7840HS + 32GB 6400 + 1TB for only €981 taxes included, I think It was a great buy for that money. There is also a free option for warranty extension by 1 year, I just need to register on Lenovo website within 14 days.
Here is a review I found of my model. Link

After all the releases this season and future Strix timeline, I ended up with a Rembrant refresh Lenovo Legion 5 (non-pro)

7735hs, 4060, same res and screen i think, 16gb, 1tb mini ssd $800 . (normally 1k)

Replacing the 1tb mini to a 2tb full (because I had one lying around) and putting 64gb in it. +$250 makes the price basically 1k.

I give up a lot of port speed and a bit of processor, but get a 4060 and a 680m for whatever that's worth.

Save $200 spend $300.

 

[moinmoin]

So Phoenix (the big one) doesn't have any parts with just 4 cores?

Why would it? That's what Phoenix (the small one) is there for after all.

 

[FlameTail]

Why would it? That's what Phoenix (the small one) is there for after all.

Coz that's how it was in previous generations.

But yes, now that Little Phoenix exists, there is no need to shave the 8 core part all the way to 4.

 

[LightningZ71]

I wouldn't be shocked to see a die recovery 4 big core product in the PRO series at some point. They are bound to get a few dies with 3-4 cores that don't hit spec that are still usable.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

After all the releases this season and future Strix timeline, I ended up with a Rembrant refresh Lenovo Legion 5 (non-pro)

7735hs, 4060, same res and screen i think, 16gb, 1tb mini ssd $800 . (normally 1k)

Replacing the 1tb mini to a 2tb full (because I had one lying around) and putting 64gb in it. +$250 makes the price basically 1k.

I give up a lot of port speed and a bit of processor, but get a 4060 and a 680m for whatever that's worth.

Save $200 spend $300.

Then you are lucky. In my country, nothing with at least 8GB Vram is under 1000euro, and then I would have to spend extra for more RAM and bigger SSD.

I originally wanted to wait for Strix Point and maybe RDNA4 combo, but I just couldn't resist the good price, specs and metal build of this Lenovo, so I bought It.
I will most likely skip next year's generation entirely.

 

[Mopetar]

So Phoenix (the big one) doesn't have any parts with just 4 cores?

TSMC N4 yields must be too good.

There are probably a few or some that will be artificially clipped to hit a bin of last resort. However, they're likely going to be an OEM-only part and/or sold into the Asian market.

Even if it did get sold into the DIY market in the US or Europe, the low-tier parts only only come out a year or more after launch anyways.

 

[Abwx]

Yet another 7840U based hand held device, at this point these toys apparently absorb a significant part of PHX production..

Terrans Force Handle 5 gaming handheld features Ryzen 7 PRO 7840U with 28W Rage Mode - VideoCardz.com

AMD Zen4/RDNA3 based gaming systems welcome a new member: Terrans Force Handle 5 The console has great specs, but pricing may be a problem. Terrans Force 5 handheld is a new system that has just been released to the market. Initially, it was announced that it will cost around $650, potentially...

videocardz.com

 

[Mopetar]

Are those things really that popular?

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Are those things really that popular?

I don't think It's a big market.
I think the better question would be how many phx were made.

 

[Abwx]

Are those things really that popular?

Asus Rog Ally sold 500k units in a matter of 2-3 weeks or so, dunno for brands who have less visibility but i would think that Lenovo s one could hit similar numbers.