Question AMD Phoenix/Zen 4 APU Speculation and Discussion

[LightningZ71]

It would certainly be a more premium SOC for certain. AMD has established a pattern of using previous generation parts to handle the sub-premium market. Just look at Rembrandt this time around. The only announced parts are an 8 core, 6WGP part, a 6 core 3WGP part, and a pro part with 4WGPs. Everything else are mildly relaxed previous gen parts. Those N7 parts aren't disappearing. In fact, I'm starting to see more and more affordable mid and low end APU systems based on Cezanne 4c and 6c in the market.

Their chief competitor is turning on the heat with Alder Lake mobile, and Raptor lake will likely be even better. They will (supposedly) have some sort of multi-chip parts next year that could have significantly better graphics. AMD HAS to push the higher end.

 

[scineram]

Where is the 4WGP part? I thought such configuration wasn't supported.

 

[moinmoin]

Their chief competitor is turning on the heat with Alder Lake mobile

Intel really is turning on the heat instead the energy efficiency...

 

[LightningZ71]

Where is the 4WGP part? I thought such configuration wasn't supported.

So did we...

Lenovo apparently has two "exclusive" SKUs, the 6860Z, which is a custom bin of the U series chip line, and a "Ryzen 7 pro with 8 CUs" which is probably 4 WGPs enabled of the 6 arranged in two clusters of two. I haven't seen the exact SKU name for it, but it's in the advertising.

Here's their product page still listing it...

https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/thinkpadz/?orgRef=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

So, apparently it does exist...

 

[eek2121]

It would certainly be a more premium SOC for certain. AMD has established a pattern of using previous generation parts to handle the sub-premium market. Just look at Rembrandt this time around. The only announced parts are an 8 core, 6WGP part, a 6 core 3WGP part, and a pro part with 4WGPs. Everything else are mildly relaxed previous gen parts. Those N7 parts aren't disappearing. In fact, I'm starting to see more and more affordable mid and low end APU systems based on Cezanne 4c and 6c in the market.

Their chief competitor is turning on the heat with Alder Lake mobile, and Raptor lake will likely be even better. They will (supposedly) have some sort of multi-chip parts next year that could have significantly better graphics. AMD HAS to push the higher end.

Indeed, AMD primarily plays at the high end/ premium side of the market these days. That is why Intel is going to continue to struggle until they take a different approach. Just a reminder that Intel was pushing “premium” quad core tiger lake chips a generation ago.

 

[scineram]

How much L3 cache are we talking about with Phoenix? Haven't seen much info but would be disappointed if still not 32MB. Intel is already in that range.

 

[Mopetar]

How much L3 cache are we talking about with Phoenix? Haven't seen much info but would be disappointed if still not 32MB. Intel is already in that range.

No one really knows. Zen 4 will have larger L2 caches so a 32 MB L3 cache may not be as much of a benefit as it would have been with current APUs.

 

[jpiniero]

No one really knows. Zen 4 will have larger L2 caches so a 32 MB L3 cache may not be as much of a benefit as it would have been with current APUs.

Aren't the chiplets still 32? Seems to be that Phoenix would still be 16 then.

 

[Shivansps]

We all know a 128-bit 4800-6400MHz(76.8-102.4GB/s) DDR5 won't be enough.
For comparison:
RX 6400 has 3.6TFLOPs, 128GB/s GDDR6 + 16MB IF.
RX 6500XT has 5.8TFLOPs, 144GB/s GDDR6 + 16MB IF.
It has 61% more TFLOPs, yet It performs only 28% better(Link) in Full HD.
6 WGP IGP at only 2GHz has already 6.1 TFLOPs.
Phoenix will need to have something else than just DDR5.
We already know 64MB 3DV cache at 7nm is only 41mm2(Link).
RDNA3 will use IC chiplets, so adding a 64MB chiplet for Phoenix shouldn't be a problem. If the size is 49mm2 for example, then you get 1143 good chiplets and with $8000-10000 per wafer It would cost only ~$7-9, add packaging costs and I think It shouldn't be more than $20.
That's pretty cheap in my opinion.

Remember that these cards have both 4GB vram and x4 pcie what is really bad for modern streaming tecniques, APU are not going to have that issue, well see soon enoght with RMB if that makes a difference.

 

[Saylick]

Was this slide shown before?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521615033926656000

 

[Shivansps]

Wait what, no RMB for desktop? Raphael is the only thing with a IGP they are going to launch to AM5 this year?

 

[jpiniero]

Wait what, no RMB for desktop? Raphael is the only thing with a IGP they are going to launch to AM5 this year?

Oh wow, DDR5 only must have really scared off OEMs on Rembrandt desktop.

 

[exquisitechar]

Wait what, no RMB for desktop? Raphael is the only thing with a IGP they are going to launch to AM5 this year?

It says enthusiast desktop, >65W. It is likely not being taken into consideration for that category.

 

[moinmoin]

It says enthusiast desktop, >65W. It is likely not being taken into consideration for that category.

The slide focuses on Dragon Range, how it fits between "thin & light gaming" and "enthusiast desktop". "mainstream desktop" seems not to be needed in such a comparison.

 

[LightningZ71]

The LPDDR5 indication for Phoenix was corre ted by Ian to be "not exclusively " lpddr5, just that it will at least support it.

 

[Saylick]

The LPDDR5 indication for Phoenix was corre ted by Ian to be "not exclusively " lpddr5, just that it will at least support it.

Correct:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521620855842910208

 

[gdansk]

Where did he get that slide? didn't see it in the slide deck

 

[ahimsa42]

strangely absent is any mention of phoenix U versions-perhaps due to the move to RDNA3?

AMD Confirms Zen 4 Powered Ryzen 7000 Raphael CPUs For Desktops In 2022, Dragon Range & Phoenix APUs For Laptops In 2023

AMD has confirmed its 2022-2023 Zen 4 'Ryzen 7000' lineup to feature Raphael CPUs, Dragon Range & Phoenix APUs for laptops and desktop PCs.

wccftech.com

 

[desrever]

So Pheonix is only 35W-45W? Is Rembrandt going to fill everything below that? Seems like if you want thin and light, there won't be a point in waiting.
Maybe what ever replaces Van Gogh will fill the space?

 

[moinmoin]

strangely absent is any mention of phoenix U versions-perhaps due to the move to RDNA3?

So Pheonix is only 35W-45W? Is Rembrandt going to fill everything below that? Seems like if you want thin and light, there won't be a point in waiting.

Pretty sure Phoenix-U still exists, it's just not the focus of this slide.

The slide focuses on Dragon Range, how it fits between "thin & light gaming" and "enthusiast desktop". "mainstream desktop" seems not to be needed in such a comparison.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Pretty sure Phoenix-U still exists, it's just not the focus of this slide.

It appears as though the slide only covers "gaming" products, which would likely disqualify anything 25W and below.

 

[moinmoin]

It appears as though the slide only covers "gaming" products, which would likely disqualify anything 25W and below.

Another good point. Though with AMD sometimes one could get the impression they market everything client as gaming related.

 

[coercitiv]

Another good point. Though with AMD sometimes one could get the impression they market everything client as gaming related.

As opposed to Intel?

 

[nicalandia]

Okay, I am back after a good Sleep..!

This is very interesting on the Dragon Range side.



So Full Fat 64 MiB L3 and 16C/32T on a Mobile Gaming CPU?

 

[moinmoin]

As opposed to Intel?

Touché. I guess it can be considered as an inane ingrained part of client PC marketing.

So: As opposed to Apple, for better or worse.