AMD or Pentium

[keith123uk]

Hi, I still cant decide whether to buy AMD or Pentium processor, which one do you guys think is more reliable? As the AMD is 64bits, does it improve the performance for gaming/applications? If yes then, as AMD is much more in advance compared to the Pentium...but why are they cheaper and still many people buy the Pentium..

# AMD Athlon? 64 3800+ Processor
# ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe Mainboard
# 1024MB DDR 400 RAM (PC3200) Memory
# 300GB Serial ATA (150Mb/s) ultra Fast Hard Drive
# 2x 128MB nVIDIA FX 6600 GT - SLI
# 19" TFT Flat Panel LCD Monitor
# SONY 16x Dual Layer DVD-RW (R/W all standard formats)*
# SONY 16x DVD-ROM (40x CD-ROM)
# 5.1 Surround Sound - 6 channel audio
# Creative Inspire T7900 - 7.1 Surround Speakers

# Intel Pentium 4- 3.6GHz Prescott Processor
# ASUS P5GDC Deluxe PCI Express Mainboard
# 1024MB DDR 400 RAM (PC3200) Memory
# 300GB Serial ATA (150Mb/s) Ultra Fast HDD
# 256Mb X800XT
# 19" TFT Flat Panel LCD Monitor
# SONY 16x Dual Layer DVD-RW (R/W all standard formats)*
# Creative Labs Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Audio
# Creative Inspire P5800 - 5.1 Surround Speakers

The AMD uses the SLI technology, which is better:
2x 128MB nVIDIA FX 6600 GT - SLI or 256Mb X800XT?

 

[Appledrop]

athlon 64s are better for gaming than their equivelently priced p4s but not because of the 64bit extensions. It has an on-die memory controller and generally superior architecture, which make it more suitable for gaming. However... a single X800XT i'd find more desirable than SLI 6600gt.. so if you could get X800XT with an A64, that would be best.

edit: a64s are not just faster in gaming, they feel a lot snappier to use in my experience, and are faster in nearly everything.

 

[gobucks]

I also prefer A64's, they simply seem better designed. Newer P4s are hot (CPU temps can hit like 60-70C) , inefficient clock-for-clock, overpriced, and inadequate in gaming. The reason that P4s are still more popular and A64s are cheaper is that Intel is a huge company, with boatloads of money to spend advertising, marketing, and brainwashing (can't confirm the last part, but just ask anyone if they can identify the little "doo-doo-doo-do" jingle they flash in ever dell or HP ad). AMD is a much smaller company, and for the average joe who knows nothing about computers, AMD is a generic brand or a knockoff or something, even though they are actually in the technology lead. Anyways, I'd grab the A64 in a heartbeat. HOWEVER, I do have one recommendation - wait till the price drop that's about to come. It'll be here in a week or 2, and while it might not make a big difference in lower end models, like the 3000+ or 3200+ (maybe a $15 drop), it will likely make a BIG difference in the price of the 3800. If it drops by one price bracket, then it will take the 3500+'s price, which is around $350 cheaper. That's quite a big difference. The other option is to be like me, and grab a 3000+, 3200+ or 3500+ and overclock, which is pretty easy. Oh, and I consider 64-bit as a bonus, rather than a performance consideration. A64s are great 32-bit processors, and the ability to grab window XP x64 down the road for added performance is just a bonus.

Anyways, as for the other components, i have a few suggestions.
1)Memory - if you overclock, get good memory, if not, get corsair value RAM. The lower latencies make a difference, but it's not noticeable enough to warrant $100 extra.
2)Mobo - From what I've heard, the new DFI SLI board is the absolute best board out right now, I'd probably recommend it over the Asus. Also, if you end up getting a single card, I'd just grab an ultra board instead and save $50
3) Video - go for a single card. The problem with dual 6600GTs is that they only have 128MB memory, which will end up causing problems down the road - you'll have plenty of rendering power, but not enough space to store the necessary info. Also, I'd look at something more in-line with the SLI setup for comparison - the X800XT PE is like $150 higher than 2 6600GTs. If you want a high end card, go for a 6800GT or X800XL. Both are around $400, and are great cards. I prefer the 6800GT, but that's cause I like the SLI upgrade possibility, Pixel shader 3.0, and the video processor. Performance is pretty damn close. And they have like 95% of the performance of an X800XT, so I'd save the $150 and take the 5FPS hit.
4) Video - Make sure your LCD has a low response time, like 12ms or 8ms. If you get a 25ms panel, it's completely unusable for gaming (trust me i know). I recommend the Hyundai L90D+ 8ms panel from newegg for $379. I just ordered it from compusa for $339, but they are completely out of them. I think samsung also has some good 12ms panels.
5) Hard Drive - Maxtor Diamondmax 10 is a good choice, but be aware that there are compatibility issues with some newer mobos, like nforce4. I think there is a new firmware for the HDD that solves this problem, though, so look into it. I had one, and performance was great, but then it disappeared from my bios due to this problem and I returned it. Still, it should be fixed by now.
6) PSU - GET A 24-Pin PSU!!!!!!! You NEED one for PCI express stability. Antec makes good ones, so does OCZ, and I love my Vantec Stealth.
7) Optical - you don't need a DVD/CD ROM if you have the burner. The burner can read and burn both DVDs and CDs. Also, I've heard the NEC 3500A burner is better than the sony, it can burn 2.4x DL media at 4x, and it's cheaper (~$60).

 

[keith123uk]

Thanks for your help Azzy and gobucks

Appeciated

more editing - By the way....I dont build the PC myself, so I cant really decide which board to buy

Im newbie in this, is there a big difference between the X800XT and X800XL? And if i can...do you think i should keep the SLI board anyway, instead of putting dual 6600GTs, i will get the high end single card? Is it possible? does it have to use 2 cards for this particular SLI board?

Thanks

 

[GuitarDaddy]

I agree with the other guys A64 is better accross the board in everyting, except video encoding and heavy multitasking where the Intel will have a slight lead.

I would reccomend getting the a64 3000+ and overclocking it, you will get higher speeds and better performance than than the 3800+ for a whole lot less money.

And with the money you save, get 1 6800gt as opposed to 2 x 6600gt this will give about the same performance in the few games that are optimized for SLI, but far better performance in everything else and gives you a better upgrade path. In a few months when all the bugs are worked out of SLI and more games and apps are optimized to utilize SLI, you can drop in a second 6800gt. In my opinion the only reason to go with ATI video is if your a HL2 junkie, as this program is optimized for ATI. Doom3 is optimized for the nVidia cards, and everything else is about equal. And if you go with ATI a future upgrade to SLI won't be possible on this board

 

[keith123uk]

I'm not going to overclock the processor I'm afraid...as I dont know how to

The dual 6600GTs is standard, if I speak to the manufacturer and aske them to change for a single 6800GT(or 6800GTO, slightly cheaper?) instead....how much extra do you reckon I'd have to pay?..I'm in england by the way.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Overclocking A64's is really very easy, and don't worry about damaging your equipment. Overclocking theoretically reduces the overall lifespan of the chip, but most people never even come close to keeping a CPU for its entire lifespan(if will most likely be obsolete long before the end of its lifespan even when overclocking). 95% of the time if you overclock to far the system hangs or reboots, and you just lower your settings and try again. The worst case scenario is something in your windows install gets corruped and you have to repair or reinstall windows.

The upgrade from 2x6600gt to 1x6800gt should be about $100-$150 USD.

 

[keith123uk]

Ok, cheers. If I do overclock it, I will get the 3500+ instead then.

 

[keith123uk]

I have another question guys,

I've been reading the past posts regarding to the SLI board...sounds like many people either having some problems with it or are not willing to try and take the risk of buying one.

Could you guys please let me know what the problem is? do I have to worry about it as I'm getting the whole system from a manufacturer.

And by the way....could the motherboard handle twins 6800GT? For the upgrade in future...

 

[TheStu]

Yes the board can handle it in the future... as guitardady said it would be best to get a single card for right now... it will be about $50-150 more expensive to get the 6800GT but it may be worth it since it is a very high-end card... uber even. I have looked too closely at the info on that board since my next upgrade is a year or 2 away but it is a new chipset and relatively new technology (3dfx actually first implemented SLI on their VooDoo 2[i believe] cards quite a few years ago and then Nvidia bought them.. however since up until now it was impossible to have 2 graphics cards on the same bus that is why I say it is new .... again) Anyway Asus is one of the better motherboard makers and so if you aren't doing anything ridiculous and sinc you aren't overclocking (or maybe you will...) you should be fine... in the system you described you are going to want to make sure the power supply is up to snuff.. at least 450 Watt from a reputable company I would say. (Fortron, PC Power and Cooling, ThermalTake, Vantec, Ultra... ) There are others but I can't think of them off the top of my head. So talk to whoever is building this machine and ask about the Power Supply.. it is very important in any system but especially in the two that you are describing...

Short Answer. Get AMD with a single 6800GT and look into the Power Supply.

 

[keith123uk]

Ok Man, cheers for that help

Got a question mate, I have read other threads saying the dual core stuff? What are they?

Would this motherboard supports it for future upgrade? and also the A8V Deluxe?

 

[TheStu]

From what I have heard Dual-core will be supported with only a simple BIOS update... it will be released on both skt 939 and skt 940 boards and should be compatible with current chipsets. In fact at ECS Asus had a dual core chip running on one of their new boards... it may have been the model you are looking at I can't remember.

 

[StrangerGuy]

The "A64 is faster in gaming" point is pretty moot since most games are usually GPU limited, and that the P4 is just a step or 2 down in gaming compared to an equivalent A64, so its still "more than fast enough".

Also multitasking favors the P4 due to HT.

In video encoding the P4 generally wins by a small margin.

But then the P4 has no 64-bit support, runs a lot hotter and consumes more power, and clock throttling can be a real risk on higher clocked prescotts.

Both platforms are equally stable and that is a fact.

I'll still recommend an A64 as it is the better all-around processor, but the P4 is still a viable choice for those who simply want to go "Intel Inside".

 

[BW86]

If your building a new computer with gaming in mind, than A64 all the way.

 

[carlosd]

Three words : A64. intel OUTSIDE.

 

[Aenslead]

Besides, if you want to buy a top of the line Pentium 4, you have to buy DDR2, too, and its far more expensive AND does not offer any performance advantage (sauf synthetic).

AMD A64 all the way.

 

[gobucks]

to put how much having an A64 helps gaming into perspective, I have a 6600GT video card, and with my 2.5GHz 3000+, I am able to run HL2 at 1280x1024 with 4xAA with zero hiccups. If you look at the reviews of the 6600GT, you'll see that is usually beyond the capability of the card, but the A64 makes a huge difference. In fact, if you look at this firingsquad article:
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/half_life_2_cpu_shootout/
you'll see just how commanding AMD's lead is in gaming. Often, it's enough to make a resolution that was slightly choppy into one that is playable, and that can make all the difference. 35FPS is way different than 40-45.

Anyways, it seems i was right about waiting for a price drop - Monarch has already dropped the 3800+ price down to like $450 in anticipation of February 16, when the full price drop will occur. I'm not sure what the official price will be, but it's definitely worth waiting for.

Oh, and as far as graphics are concerned, the X800XL is a X800XT clocked about 50MHz lower. It has about 95% of the performance, for hundreds of dollars less. Likewise, the 6800GT is about 50MHz slower, for much cheaper. Considering that with every new generation of cards, they bring a 50-75% or even 100% boost in performance, quabbling over an extra 5% for $200 is stupid. I'd say a single 6800GT or X800XL is the way to go. It doesn't matter which you choose - if you like Pixel shader 3.0, SLI capability, and MPEG2 acceleration in PowerDVD or WinDVD, then go for the 6800GT; if you'd prefer a slight performance advantage with high Anti-Aliasing/Anisotropic Filtering, then go for the X800XL.

 

[Zebo]

Intel has a hell of a chipset in 915/925, problem is processor. It's fans loud, it uses lots of power and does'nt do much work dispite it's high number value.

Get AMD 3800 quiet, fast, and very snappy with integrated mem controller.. Has 1/3 the mem latency as P4 setups which you can feel all the time. ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe is best for non-overclcoking. Some people have reported problems reaching high clocks with this board though so if you're think about a budget processor and overclcoking to max I'd get the DFI SLI.

 

[Dookie]

If, you're getting the 3500+, overclocking is extremely easy. I'm running at 2.4 (FX-53 speed) and all i did was raise the HTT to 218. No adjusting multiples or DDR settings.
Granted it's got 512 less L2 cache but it's worth it to save $461. (asccording to NewEgg.com)

 

[MalfurionStormrage]

Originally posted by: gobucks
to put how much having an A64 helps gaming into perspective, I have a 6600GT video card, and with my 2.5GHz 3000+, I am able to run HL2 at 1280x1024 with 4xAA with zero hiccups. If you look at the reviews of the 6600GT, you'll see that is usually beyond the capability of the card, but the A64 makes a huge difference.

My buddy's new 3.4F Intel does the same thing (running HL2 at 1280x1024 4xaa on Windows XP Professional 64-bit Edition RC2 with 66.96 drivers), so it's not that it's beyond the card.

I will agree that AMDs have the lead in gaming performance and the FX-55 and 4000+ pretty much leave the Pentiums behind in everything -- sometimes by a large margin. BUT, I am seeing huge problems with the nForce4 and KT890 that I am not seeing with the 915/925 chipset. Your extra 10 to 15 FPS don't mean anything when your machine can't POST or crashes in the middle of a game -- not because of the AMD chip but because of the inferior chipsets.

It is for this reason alone that I am not going AMD for my next computer system but going 64-bit Intel. Plus, I am getting a better price on the Intel chip because I know the owner so well at my local computer store.

 

[friedrice]

More people are switching over to the AMD every day. Look at the history of business. Companies who are huge, but then decided not to change how they do things, have often failed or run into big trouble. In 5 years from now, Intel will have either have more competetive prices or AMD will have a nice sized marketshare

 

[kini62]

Absolutely nothing wrong with my Dell XPS. It's quiet, much quieter than my previous custom built Athlon 3500+ with a 6800GT. It's faster at EVERYTHING, including the games I play- Doom 3, Far Cry all the HL interations. Sure you can't overclock it ,but you said that is not something you really wanted to do. Plus it was cheaper than the custom built system. Dell just got done with a 34% off sale (they'll have it again, or at least 25% off or other deals as good or better). As for tech support I haven't had to call, but at least with the XPS you get "level 2" support, supposedly located in the US. Also Dell is already using the new 600 series Intel CPUs with 64bit extensions enabled and the new stepping/powermanagement features.

Sure for all out gaming an OCed 3000+ and up will generally outperform an Intel based system, but I had nothing but trouble when mine was OCed. Sometimes it would boot, then it wouldn't, games would crash, windows would crash, I don't think the nForce 4 chipset was up to snuff. And to get acceptable video encoding performance out of it I had to OC it.

I'm very happy with my Dell. They don't deserve all the knocks they get in these forums. It's a good, solid, reliable system for non-overclockers.

 

[carlosd]

AMD has excelent chipsets, Nforce3 and K8T800, rock solid, very stable. The problems with nforce 4 are temporal, it is a new chipset.

 

[carlosd]

Originally posted by: MalfurionStormrage

Originally posted by: gobucks
to put how much having an A64 helps gaming into perspective, I have a 6600GT video card, and with my 2.5GHz 3000+, I am able to run HL2 at 1280x1024 with 4xAA with zero hiccups. If you look at the reviews of the 6600GT, you'll see that is usually beyond the capability of the card, but the A64 makes a huge difference.

My buddy's new 3.4F Intel does the same thing (running HL2 at 1280x1024 4xaa on Windows XP Professional 64-bit Edition RC2 with 66.96 drivers), so it's not that it's beyond the card.

I will agree that AMDs have the lead in gaming performance and the FX-55 and 4000+ pretty much leave the Pentiums behind in everything -- sometimes by a large margin. BUT, I am seeing huge problems with the nForce4 and KT890 that I am not seeing with the 915/925 chipset. Your extra 10 to 15 FPS don't mean anything when your machine can't POST or crashes in the middle of a game -- not because of the AMD chip but because of the inferior chipsets.

It is for this reason alone that I am not going AMD for my next computer system but going 64-bit Intel. Plus, I am getting a better price on the Intel chip because I know the owner so well at my local computer store.

You say that beacuse you have the a chipset (KT133A, not one of the best chipsets) from the days when AMD chipsets were crap, but nowadays AMD has excelent chipsets, Nforce3 and K8T800, rock solid, very stable, even more than intel ones. The problems with nforce 4 are temporal, it is a new chipset. At least my system NEVER crashes, so the one having inferior chipsets is intel not supporting SLI, and supporting crappy DDR2. Cannot say the same about newer intel systems throtling all the time and heating the room beacuse of the extremely high temps.

 

[Cha0s]

even easier if you get 2800 AMD64 . just enable the maximum performance option and you get almost 2.8GHZ thats more then amd4000