AMD or Intel Revisited: Mobile 2400+ vs P4 2.4C

[irenealan]

Hi:

Earlier I posted a thread concerning whether I should get AMD or Intel for my budgeted $300 system. Thanks for everyone's comment and sorry for not responded to the thread lately since I went ahead and do more research on both sides of the systems. Afterall I narrowed down to the following two combos that I think may reach the best overclocking results while cost within my budget:

Intel P4 System
$166.00 P4 2.4c w/ HT 800 FSB
$112.99 Abit AI7 mobo

$278.99 Total


AMD Athlon XP Mobile System
$ 77.00 Mobile Athlon XP 2400+
$102.00 Abit NF7-S mobo

$179.00 Total


It seems that the AMD system is $100 less and will well fit under my $300 budget even if I inlcude the ram. However, performance wise I do I have doubt on the system. Following are my questions:

1) Which system would reach a better overclocking results based on the above combo? In terms of highest speed, stability and performance wise or any other benchmark? I heard most people expressed that Athlon is good for gaming, but I don't play game much. Rather I do alot of downloading, extracting, CD/DVD burning, Compiling and Running Java, Tomcat and sometimes encoding, decrypting DVD. Also I would like to multi-task the above tasks at most times, thus is Intel definitely I better choice for me? Even if it doesn't overclock as high a speed as AMD?

2) For $20 or more, should I get a P4 2.8c or Mobile 2600+ instead? However, I wonder is there any difference since I have seen comments that both P4 2.4c and 2.8c may overclock to around the same speed. Same for Mobile 2400+ and 2600+. Thus is there any reason I should spend another $20 for the higher speed processor? Is it becuz of the lower voltage needed?

3) It seems the AI7 and NF7-S are both the best boards for overclocking (since they both have the Guru chip), do any of you have any comments on whether there's any other board that would reach a better result?

4) I am thinking to get a pair of PC3200 512mb ram for the dual channel. But should I get anything higher than PC3200 for the best overclocking result? Since I may overclock the P4 or AMD Mobile over 200 FSB?

5) Is serial ATA really that big a plus? If not I can save another $20 or more on the NF7 board instead.

Again Thanks for everyone's help in this forum. You guys are the best since you made computer dummy like me to spend the money I can afford to build the best system for my daily use. Really appreciate all your help. Keep it up!

 

[Elcs]

Well,

1) Being an AMD only owner as they offered what the best performance for the price that suited me at the time, I cant comment on Intel systems.

2) Overclocking isnt guarunteed. The 2600+ vs 2400+ guaruntees that you get 200+ at the 'stock' voltage of 1.45V.

3) AN7 has the uguru, has had some problems. Unsure whether its as good as the board its supposed to replace (NF7-S R2). NF7-S Rev 2.0 doesnt have the uguru chip.... it is a proven performer so whether you want to take a little bit of risk.. is up to you.

4) Dual Channel doesnt make much of a difference on an AMD platform but 2x512 may be cheaper than 1x1Gb so whichever. Id be happy with 200mhz with something like 2.5-3-3-11 which I can attain with my DDR.

5) SATA gives a very little performance increase when comparing to equal PATA drives. The WD Raptor is a 10k rpm SATA drive which outperforms the rest but has issues with being on the small and expensive side. However, SATA cables are far nicer to work with than PATA cables

Hope Ive been of some help.

 

[myocardia]

It sounds to me as if you should go with a P4C, since you are wanting to do heavy multitasking. The AI7 isn't a good overclocking board. Most people who've bought them have had problems overclocking with them. You'll want to get an IS7 if you get a 2.8C, and an IC7 if you get a 2.4C. The IS7's seem to have trouble making it much past 250fsb, which will limit your overclock with a 2.4C, but not with a 2.8C. If you decide to go with the mobile Athlon, no motherboard will overclock it as well as an NF7-S.

 

[irenealan]

Thanks Elcs for your comment.

1) Is there anyone else who can give me comment on the Intel side of selection? It does seem that in price wise, the AMD gives the best performance. But if I were to spend a little more, will I get out alot more based on the daily tasks I perform (as listed in post above)? Also even if I get a 2600+, the most it will go up to is around 2.6 or 2.7, would it be comparable to an overclocked P4 @ 3.4 or 3.6?

2) Thanks for the answer, I also viewed other posts and found that 2600+ will take less voltage than 2400+. However, how about P4 2.4c vs 2.8c. What's the max stable overclocked speed for both of these chips and is there any voltage difference?

3) Some I just got the newest NF7-S mobo and it said on the box that it has a Guru chip, that's why I thought it's better for overclocking. However, the AI7 board I mentioned is for Intel P4 and it's suppose to replace the IS7 board. It also has the Guru chip thus don't if anyone has comment on whether is a better board for overclocking. Also is there much different between the 865 and 875 chipset of the Intel mobo?

4) So Dual channel is not an advantage in Athlon? Only for P4? Base on what you said, since I am doing a dual channel, then I can buy I cheaper ram (i.e. PC 2700 or 2100) to reach the maximum dual channel FSB? Or should I still go after a PC3200 or even a 3500, 4000?

5) So what specific type of HD do I need in order to use with the SATA? So do most people here use SATA and buy board with such feature?

Thanks again for everyone help!!

 

[WobbleWobble]

Since you're doing multimedia and heavy multitasking, I'd go the P4C route. As noted before, don't expect a guaranteed overclock!

I'd hop on the P4C 2.8GHz as it's not that much more and higher multiplier for easier overclocking (less overclocking of the FSB needed).

 

[irenealan]

Thanks myocardia!

That's what I thought also that Intel fits me more but I also wonder if the Athlon Mobile can be overclocked to a high enough speed that it will beat the performance of a overclocked P4, even with the task I am doing?

So if I were to get an Intel, which version of the IS7 or IC7 should I get since there are different types of them. Also if I decided to throw another $20 for the 2.8, would it be better if I still get the IC7 so that I can raise the FSB and overclock even more? Last a dumb question, I don't understand why we should set the FSB to 250? Since the P4 chip supports 800 FSB would 250 be running a low number on it? Thanks again for all the help.

Originally posted by: myocardia
It sounds to me as if you should go with a P4C, since you are wanting to do heavy multitasking. The AI7 isn't a good overclocking board. Most people who've bought them have had problems overclocking with them. You'll want to get an IS7 if you get a 2.8C, and an IC7 if you get a 2.4C. The IS7's seem to have trouble making it much past 250fsb, which will limit your overclock with a 2.4C, but not with a 2.8C. If you decide to go with the mobile Athlon, no motherboard will overclock it as well as an NF7-S.

 

[WobbleWobble]

How much more is the 3.0C? I know it may be pushing it, but it might be worth it and you won't have to gamble with an overclock.

As for the 250, 800 confusion...

800 = 4 x 200 (4x because the P4 is quad pumped)
1000 = 4 x 250

I hope that puts it into context for you.

 

[Zebo]

Intel P4 System
$166.00 P4 2.4c w/ HT 800 FSB
$112.99 Abit AI7 mobo

$278.99 Total


AMD Athlon XP Mobile System
$ 77.00 Mobile Athlon XP 2400+
$102.00 Abit NF7-S mobo

$179.00 Total

Don't forget about crysal clear sound on nforce board and way faster mem you'll need to OC pentium.

Revised price list:

Intel P4 System
$166.00 P4 2.4c w/ HT 800 FSB
$112.99 Abit AI7 mobo
$70 Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy 2
$190 Muskin PC4000

$540 Total


AMD Athlon XP Mobile System
$ 77.00 Mobile Athlon XP 2400+
$102.00 Abit NF7-S mobo
$140 PC3500 muskin lvl 1

$320 Total

 

[WobbleWobble]

I would disagree with the sound issue. SoundStorm is great... only if you're using digital out. The MCP-T chip is great but it's hampered by the "poor quality" DAC that all motherboard makers seem to be using. In that case, arguably it'll be no better than a Live! in sound quality.

I'm not sure what codec the AI7 uses, but if it uses SoundMax like the Asus P4P800/P4C800 the SNR be better than an nForce 2 board, sounding better.

Granted, MCP-T does use less CPU, but that's negligable because CPUs are fast enough nowadays.

 

[irenealan]

Thanks for the comment again. Of course it's always better to push for a better processor, I think I am willing to pay the less than $20 difference to upgrade to 2.8c but a 3.0 would cost around $40 more in new egg. Thus I would pass on that. Plus would not a 2.8c be easily overclocked to 3.4 or 3.6? That would really make a difference from the 3.0!

So do I really need better rams for the Intel? I don't care much about the sound since I have a old Creative Sound Blaster Live! card (a low end one not the Audigy) and I think it's good enough for me. But I would love to get the best performance out of the ram. So I should get PC3500 for the Athlon to max the FSB up to 213... how about Intel? Do I really need something higher than PC3500 to max it up for the 250 FSB?

It seems the system is getting more and more expensive but of course loaded with much better stuff... anyhow thanks for everyone's input!

 

[Wuzup101]

This is really a sticky subject. Both combos you listed are quite good and will overclock well. Barton-M chips are hitting 2.5ghz on fairly low voltage and are the cream of the crop as far as barton's are concerned. However a P4 w/ hyper threading @ 3.4 or higher would likely beat all but the fastest (and rare) barton overclcoekd chips. I can tell you from personal experience that the NF7-2 rev 2 is the board to get for the AMD overclocking and that personally I find my 2.3ghz overclock to be more than suitable in speed for everything I do (including video encoding). IMHO I would go for the AMD setup (as you can see I did). Not because the P4 is a bad deal... esp if you get a great oc b/c it would rip most AMD chips a new arse. I just think that if you are money consious (as most of us are) your money would be better used somewhere else. For that extra $220 that the intel setup would run you could get 2 36gig 10k raptors, almost a set of logitech z680s, an extra stick of 512mb ram w/ money to spare, a dvd burner, a very nice video card, OR a number of other things. IMHO things like this need to be considered.

On another note. As a person who has both the SB Audigy 2 and a board (this one) with soundstorm. I'm not going to say there is no contest. Both are very good. The bottom line is the Audigy is NOT worth the extra $70 especially if you are using digital speakers. Though I use analogue with no problems what so ever... very clear!

 

[irenealan]

Thanks Wuzup101. I think the AMD is the best system I can find based on its price... but if an overclocked Intel 2.8c would really outperform an overclocked Mobile 2600+ then I would not mind saving up more to just get to Intel.

My question now is it seems that Intel would cost at least 100 or even more (depending on the more high-end ram I should get for Intel). Based on everyone's experience, is Intel really that much faster in Compiling, Running Java, Tomcat and Encoding, Descypting videos? If the OCed Mobile 2600+ would perform pretty much the same as the OCed P4 2.8c then I would definitely go for the 2600+!

Also I wonder if the A64 is much better than the Mobile 2600+?

Again thanks for everyones help.

 

[WobbleWobble]

You do NOT need PC3500 and faster memory to overclock a P4. You can always run a memory divider while keeping your FSB at 250MHz or whatever.

I don't think you'd notice a huge difference doing Java, but you would doing your video encoding.

Yes, the A64 is that much better than the Mobile 2600+

 

[smahoney]

I run my 2.8C M0 stepping at 250MHz FSB for a 3.5GHz CPU speed and PC4000 memory with a 1:1 divider on an IC7-G. both the 2.4 and 2.8 have excellent overclocking potential provided that you use quality parts to handle the heat and provide adequate voltage. The memory is a key component for what memory divider you will be using. The FSB target of your CPU will dictate which motherboard chipset you should look at. The 2.4C M0 stepping regularly go up to 275 or better FSB but only the 875 chipset motherboards can handle it and that will likely blow your budget. An Abit IS7/865 board has very good success rates pushing a 2.8 up to 250MHz and a 5:4 memory divider will let you use PC3200 memory with it. I would recommend a 2.8C with an Abit IS7 (lower price than the AI7 but better for OC'ing) and some quality PC3200 memory. A bit less risky could be a 2.8C on a SiS based board like the Asus P4S800D and some PC3700 memory and go for a 233MHz FSB and 1:1 memory ratio.

 

[irenealan]

Thanks smahoney for your help but you posted some terms I don't understand? What's a memory divider? Is that something I need to purchase in extra or it comes with the mobo? Also if I decided to go with the 2.8c, IS7 board and the 5:4 memory dividing option, will it be as stable to run it at 250mhz FSB as runnin the Asus and PC3700 ram at 233mhz FSB? Please advise. Thanks.

Originally posted by: smahoney
I run my 2.8C M0 stepping at 250MHz FSB for a 3.5GHz CPU speed and PC4000 memory with a 1:1 divider on an IC7-G. both the 2.4 and 2.8 have excellent overclocking <EM>potential provided</EM> that you use quality parts to handle the heat and provide adequate voltage. The memory is a key component for what memory divider you will be using. The FSB target of your CPU will dictate which motherboard chipset you should look at. The 2.4C M0 stepping regularly go up to 275 or better FSB but only the 875 chipset motherboards can handle it and that will likely blow your budget. An Abit IS7/865 board has very good success rates pushing a 2.8 up to 250MHz and a 5:4 memory divider will let you use PC3200 memory with it. I would recommend a 2.8C with an Abit IS7 (lower price than the AI7 but better for OC'ing) and some quality PC3200 memory. A bit less risky could be a 2.8C on a SiS based board like the Asus P4S800D and some PC3700 memory and go for a 233MHz FSB and 1:1 memory ratio.

 

[Wuzup101]

A memory divider is a feature of the board set in BIOS. It lets you run your FSB at a higher (or lower) speed than your memory. Basically what that means is you can run pc3200 (200mhz in spec) with a FSB of 250mhz. The Abit NF7-s also has this... as do most (if not all) good nforce2 boards for AMD. I agree with smahoney... you definitely need quality parts to make a good overclock work in either AMD's or Intel's case.

Note: I know that most AMD o/cers do not use mem dividers b/c they hit performance. However, Intel could have very likely divised a better divider scheme... someone here should know.

 

[irenealan]

So it seems that both AMD and Intel OCers may need to change the memory divider. However in the case of AMD, I don't see it's necessary to play with that since with PC3200, the FSB is 200mhz and rarely people need to OC over 200 FSB for a Mobile 2600+. But in the case for Intel, I do see that memory divider change is needed since I see most people OC a P4 to 250mhz. Unless I am getting a PC4000 ram, there's no way I can reach that number.

So anyone here who got the Intel suggests that I should get the IS7 board, OC to 250mhz and change the memory divider if I am getting a PC3200 ram or I should get a SiS Board with PC3700 or 4000 ram running at 233mhz FSB?

Thanks!

 

[Dug]

Get the Intel. Either IC7 or IS7.
Get a 2.4 or 2.6c
Get regular 3200 memory.
Run at a high fsb and use the 5:4 divider in the bios.

Buy from the forums and save some money.

 

[irenealan]

Thanks but there different type of IC7 or IS7, which specifically should I get?

Sorry to repeat but smahoney just suggested that I should get a IC7 with the 875 chipset if I get the 2.4 so I can raise the FSB up to 275? So it's still a good idea to get the 2.4 or 2.6c with the IS7 based on your suggestion?

So system will be stable as normal if running the memory with 5:4 divider?

Thanks for all the help and where is the forum I can buy stuff from? I thinking to buy everything from NewEgg...

Originally posted by: Dug
Get the Intel. Either IC7 or IS7.
Get a 2.4 or 2.6c
Get regular 3200 memory.
Run at a high fsb and use the 5:4 divider in the bios.

Buy from the forums and save some money.

 

[Wuzup101]

There is a forsale/trade forum here at anandtech... also I'm sure there are some really good intel msg boards that you can find w/ a google search!