AMD next memory controller *UPDATE*

[kobymu]

I just read http://www.anandtech.com/news/shownews.aspx?i=24177 title:

AMD Athlon 64 Rev F Update: DDR2 and Socket M2?

and i wondered if amd can make there next memory controller ddr2/ddr3, are ddr2/ddr3 pin compatible?
and how much complexity would that add to the cpu?

/edit
everywhere ddr3 is mentioned, it's said thet ddr3 is a revision of ddr2.
/edit end

 

[Duvie]

To early to tell....Not a lot known about the DDR3 yet, plus there is no gaurantee AMD may not just jump over DDR2 altogether and go straight to DDR3 as some industry insiders are rumoring may in fact happen...DDR2 is agreed by all in the industry to be a weak design....The only problem will be when is DDR3 modules going to be available to the masses and will the premium make it prohibitive...

From what I have read and I linked some good articles a few weeks back in a thread I started about rumored DDR3...(do a search and use me as the Author and "DDR2")...but it seemed more then just a revision....

 

[kobymu]

Originally posted by: Duvie
...(do a search ...)

:thumbsup:

in progress....................... done!


*crucial* (forgive me if i'm stating the obvious )
GDDR3 is a derivate from the DDR2. it has no connection to DDR3 which is a completely new standard. why?
GDDR3 and DDR2 have a prefetch of 4n bits
DDR3 prefetch of 8n bits

proof:
http://download.micron.com/pdf/presentations/jedex/memory_trends_micron_2004.pdf (look at page 9)

German, translated with google

However the JEDEC committee already gave some details to DDR3 to price. Like that DDR3 is an evolutionary advancement of the DDR2-Speichertechnologie and offers with a 8-Bit-Prefetch-Technologie with same material clock frequency higher ranges than Ddr2-sdram with 4-Bit-Prefetch. First DDR3-SDRAM-Module will go with a clock frequency from 800 and/or 1066 MHz to the start.

n order to ensure a low capacity, the memory with a core tension of 1,5 V. works against it needs DDR2 1.8 V and DDR400 2.6 V. for the further energy conservation controls Ddr3-sdram more efficient power management modes. DDR3-Speicher promises a progress also by 15 to 20 per cent lower latencies when reading data.

although DDR2 is far from a perfect design, with a few modification (GDDR3) can achieve some very decent result.
/edit
GDDR3 has prefetch of 4n bits

 

[imported_Kensai]

I doubt it. I heard that AMD will jump DDR2 and skip off to DDR3.

 

[kobymu]

Originally posted by: Kensai
I doubt it. I heard that AMD will jump DDR2 and skip off to DDR3.

i hear u. and on top of that it seems that ddr2 wasnt meant to last long to begin with.
look here Industry Insider Report: Intel Knew DDR2 was Poor Design

According to the insider, Intel always planned DDR2 to quickly fade away from the market, so the company won?t be in a shock if they have to move to DDR3 or XDR in the near future. In fact, that was Intel?s plan all along, since DDR2 was a poor architecture to begin with

and it seems like DDR3 is right around the corner
Samsung Electronics Produces World's First Working Prototype of Next Generation of Computer Memory ? DDR3

 

[imported_Soldier]

Another reason why I have gone to AMD. Intel changes CPU sockets and memory more often than Larry the Cable Guy changes his underwear. Anything to make a buck....

 

[kobymu]

 

[kobymu]

:| HOW THE HELL DID I MISS THIS!

AnandTech WinHEC 2005: Coverage Wrap (page 9)

The other interesting comment from Barry was that he stated AMD will be using DDR2 in a future processor. We had asked if they might simply skip DDR2 altogether and head straight to DDR3, and he said they would not be doing so. His explanation was that DDR2-400 didn't make any sense at all, and while DDR2-533 has some advantages, it's really only at DDR2-667 that performance benefits become useful. How useful? He stated that a 10% performance increase was likely. Whether this was just a guess or if AMD already has DDR2 prototype processors - remember that with the integrated memory controller, AMD will have to create a new version of their chips to support a new memory type like DDR2 - we don't know. We were actually surprised at his response, as we thought DDR3 was close enough that AMD would simply skip a generation. Then again, they might like the idea of allowing Intel users the ability to convert to AMD with the only required purchases being the motherboard and processor. Having a common memory platform certainly isn't bad for consumers.

 

[bersl2]

Originally posted by: kobymu
AnandTech WinHEC 2005: Coverage Wrap (page 9)

The other interesting comment from Barry was that he stated AMD will be using DDR2 in a future processor. We had asked if they might simply skip DDR2 altogether and head straight to DDR3, and he said they would not be doing so. His explanation was that DDR2-400 didn't make any sense at all, and while DDR2-533 has some advantages, it's really only at DDR2-667 that performance benefits become useful.

Wow. Nice logical fallacy.

Q: Is it true or false that AMD might use DDR3 over DDR2?
A: False.
Q: Why?
A: DDR2-400 and DDR2-533 are too slow, but DDR2-667 is not.

An argument is being made on technical grounds. There is no explanation as to why DDR2-667 (one technology) is more fesable than DDR3 (another technology) at an equivalent level of capability; indeed, there is no mention of DDR3 in the answer at all! This leaves only the speculation that AMD might want to syphon away some current Intel users, which is a flimsy marketing argument and is not the sort of thing to power a debate for one technology over another.

 

[imported_Ged]

He stated that a 10% performance increase was likely. Whether this was just a guess or if AMD already has DDR2 prototype processors

10% is a decent jump.

At this point, if M2 and DDR2 processors will be out next year, I hope AMD has prototype processors or at least DDR2 memory controllers.

Right now all we can do is have faith in AMD's record.

EDIT: and LOL, how did you miss that part? That's the one part that I actually read a few times... that and the Hybrid Hard Drive part.

 

[Elcs]

Originally posted by: Kensai
I doubt it. I heard that AMD will jump DDR2 and skip off to DDR3.

Thats the rumours Ive heard as well.

One thing though. If AMD skips DDR2, what will the poor Intel Guys with DDR2 do? Stay with Intel?

I always try to upgrade for price/performance when I need to. I usually take RAM with me if I can do so without compromising on what I really want (usually mobo/cpu combo). If an Intel person has DDR2 and wants to go AMD, he's looking at DDR1 and DDR3. From a personal perspective, If I was that person, Id be more likely to stay Intel (*assuming they still used DDR2).

Perhaps a very minor drawback. I may be in a significantly small minority here.

 

[kobymu]

rumours rumours rumours :frown:

 

[bunnyfubbles]

This doesn't make sense, why is AMD even considering it if only the best DDR2 offers an advantage? Last I checked they weren't exactly losing the performance battle with intel, and with intel stuck at 3.8GHz single core, and AMD moving up, I don't think memory bandwidth is of concern here, at least not with single core (then there's the evidence that low latency has more of an effect than high bandwidth, although both is nice, you certainly don't get low latency with DDR2). Perhaps dual core needs more bandwidth? Or will need more bandwidth? I'd think they'd need to tweak the memory controller quite a bit to take a true advantage. I guess if they can can get extra performance and drive the nail even further in to the coffin that is the Prescott core...

But from a strategy standpoint I'm not sure it makes the best sense, forcing Intel to two failed memory types would be too good to be true, especially when DDR1 keeps giving us suprises as shown off by some of the best modules out there. I'd say leave intel to explain why they forced their users onto new platforms on to have them die almost as fast as they were introduced. DDR1 has been around for so long and is still alive AND kicking. DDR2 is doomed to a short life, perhaps the only way it would make sense to me would be in an FX type situation where the AMD flagship useses the new stuff, but that would mean even more specialization and just wouldn't be as cost effective.

 

[Acanthus]

Dual core needs more bandwidth, and multi core is far worse, memory, unlike today, will be far more important in the future.

Youre lucky to get 10% going from $50 memory to $350 memory today, this will change within the next couple of years, technologies like DDRII, DDRIII and XDR will emerge to fill the bandwidth holes SMP is going to create.

 

[akugami]

Wouldn't it cost AMD more in the long run to support DDR2 then DDR3? After all, they have to redesign the memory controllers in their CPU cores to support different RAM. Not to mention the possibility of a socket change. There are two likely scenarios as I see it.

1) Skip DDR2 and head straight to DDR3. This means they won't have to support two different memory types and ease the cost of future purchases because of hardware incompatibilities. It's cheaper for them to not have to support DDR1 for older hardware, then support DDR2 and shortly thereafter support DDR3. It's cheaper also for their users who upgrade a lot to not have to buy completely new RAM when upgrading to the M2 socket then whatever the successor to M2 will be.

2) Support DDR2 but make Socket M2 compatible with DDR3. They can then wait for DDR3 to drop in price before they support it. Of course, this will require a processor, RAM and mobo upgrade to go from DDR2 to DDR3.