AMD Llano will get me a $700 gaming laptop?

[patfactorx]

Does the new AMD APU allow me to get a good gaming laptop for $700 and can I run Civ V at max settings!?

 

[Arzachel]

Depends on your definition of "gaming" and "playable framerates" The top-end Llano model will preform around the same as an Athlon II x4 + Radeon 5650, so set your expectations acordingly. No information on pricing yet, but I guess ~600-800$ would be right.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Interesting. So llano can do Crossfire if used with discrete graphics?

It would be interesting to see llano crossfired against an Intel 2600K both using same discrete graphics card. AMD with cross fire Intel without . Intel cpus perform much better in games than AMDs Stars does. It would be terriable for AMD if the intel system without crossfire won. Ya Starcraft 2 Intel would likely win / X-bit has a good article on the SB vs. 6 core intel and 6 core AMD . The results are most interesting. LLANO is Stars correct?

Why are all GPU reviews done with intel cpus. Isn't that infact giving bad info to readers as many will assume they get same performance with AMD cpu which isn't the case at all . GPU reviews should be done with both Intel and AMD cpus so as to show the public the real value of the cpu they choose to use with there brand new 400 dollar GPU. Now on the highend this isn't such a big deal as the resolutions can be set high enough to bottleneck the GPU . But on laptops with lower resolutions it does infact matter. As the CPU power becomes important. Up to 50 % differances between the amd and intel cpus using same GPU in FPS. Reviews now days are so hard to figure out because its all done with Intel cpus on the desktop and high resolution.

 

[Joseph F]

I believe the current generation of AMD's APUs are Stars based.

 

[Chiropteran]

You can get a laptop with a real video card for $700, so I'd hope a llano based laptop would be less.

 

[wahdangun]

did you know that curently AMD start shipping Llano !!

AMD APU to OEMs.


Zoom
We already have a taste of AMD's Fusion with the current entry-level, but very capable APUs on the market. The integrated graphics solutions give netbooks a new sort of power at a price that wasn't before possible.

Now AMD hopes to apply the same kind of practice to high performance applications. Today the company confirmed that it has commenced shipments of Llano, a 32nm quad-core A-Series APU with built-in graphics that can hang with some of the discrete options available today.

Just because the chips are shipping today doesn't mean that you'll get them tomorrow. They're being sent out to OEMs right now so they can be packed in systems.

"When we say we are shipping production units of any part for the first time, the next question I inevitably get asked is how does AMD define 'production'?" wrote Phil Hughes, Senior PR Manager at AMD. "When we talk about production here at AMD, it refers to the units that will ultimately be in the systems that our OEM partners will ship to retailers or end-customers."

Hughes continued in the blog post, "Now of course, I can’t speak for exactly when each of our OEM partners will ship systems, that’s a question for them, but as our Chief Financial Officer and Interim CEO Thomas Seifert mentioned on his Webcast today, 'Customers are very excited about Llano coming to market and we will look forward to seeing our “Llano”-based systems in the market this quarter — the second quarter.'"

AMD once again highlighted its comparison with Sandy Bridge with the video below. Of course, the real test starts once we get one of these into our review team's testing lab.

linky

and Llano will be a lightyear faster than intel crapy iGP

 

[GlacierFreeze]

Why are all GPU reviews done with intel cpus. .... GPU reviews should be done with both Intel and AMD cpus so as to show the public the real value of the cpu they choose to use with there brand new 400 dollar GPU.

Because it's a GPU review, not CPU review. With a GPU review, you want to have the least amount of different variables as possible to get the best comparison between GPUs, hence only GPUs are changed out. And they do, in fact, benchmark games in CPU reviews. Everyone knows this.

 

[dorion]

http://www.nordichardware.com/news/69-cpu-chipset/42585-amd-e-450-fusion-apu-with-turbo-in-q3.html

This page shows what I assume to be an entry level Llano, the E2-3250. One can only hope that the higher end Llano have a better GPU, because the one in the E2-3250 looks to be about half as good as the brand-new 6450. Also I really hope the E2-3250 is a desktop part and not a laptop part.

 

[Tuna-Fish]

LLANO is Stars correct?

Yup.

It would be interesting to see llano crossfired against an Intel 2600K both using same discrete graphics card. AMD with cross fire Intel without . Intel cpus perform much better in games than AMDs Stars does. It would be terriable for AMD if the intel system without crossfire won.

Of current-gen games, the Intel system would likely win on SC2, Civ5, and BF:BC2, and the Llano rig would take the rest. I foresee a lot of flaming on the internet blaming reviewers for "unfair" game picks.

 

[Abwx]

Yup.



Of current-gen games, the Intel system would likely win on SC2, Civ5, and BF:BC2, and the Llano rig would take the rest. I foresee a lot of flaming on the internet blaming reviewers for "unfair" game picks.

Perhaps at very low settings as the CPU becomes dominant
in the perfs outcome, but once a little more definition is added,
i don t expect SB IG to win a single bench on games.

Gpu difference is just too big as SB IGP is at best about
100 SPs.

 

[Tuna-Fish]

Perhaps at very low settings as the CPU becomes dominant
in the perfs outcome, but once a little more definition is added,
i don t expect SB IG to win a single bench on games.

Gpu difference is just too big as SB IGP is at best about
100 SPs.

The question wasn't igp vs igp, it was hybrid crossfire of Llano and a radeon discrete card vs SNB and the same discrete card.

I fully expect the Llano igp to spank the SNB igp at everything.

 

[Joseph F]

Is Llano going to be 32nm?

 

[ElFenix]

Is Llano going to be 32nm?

yes

 

[Abwx]

The question wasn't igp vs igp, it was hybrid crossfire of Llano and a radeon discrete card vs SNB and the same discrete card.

I fully expect the Llano igp to spank the SNB igp at everything.

Ooops...
In such a case, it will be effectively another story ,though
i m not sure that crossfire will give a tremendous advantage.

 

[grimpr]

Nemesis 1 forgot to tell you that Llano is more than games, it starts up an ecosystem or the strategic counterevasion to Intels tactics.

http://sites.amd.com/us/fusion/apu/Pages/apps-demos.aspx

https://amdfusion.wingateweb.com/sc...uleByType.jsp?printView=true&ts=1302110951415

OK, I don't want this bait to start another flamewar, I already locked one thread today.
Knock it off, or I lock this one. And then infractions start.
Markfw900
Anandtech Moderator

 

[Nemesis 1]

What you think I been living under a rock . Your trying to sell the wrong person . So intel won't beable to take advantage of these apps . Is that what your saying? If so Than I guess SB won't be my last CPU . I will have to get a IB as it will be LIKE an APU . LOL

 

[grimpr]

I wasnt talking to you buddy.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Nemesis 1 forgot to tell you that Llano is more than games, it starts up an ecosystem or the strategic counterevasion to Intels tactics.

http://sites.amd.com/us/fusion/apu/Pages/apps-demos.aspx

https://amdfusion.wingateweb.com/sc...uleByType.jsp?printView=true&ts=1302110951415

OK, I don't want this bait to start another flamewar, I already locked one thread today.
Knock it off, or I lock this one. And then infractions start.
Markfw900
Anandtech Moderator

Iam sorry but it sure looked like it to me . Sorry for the misunderstanding

 

[RobertPters77]

Don't bet on it.

Brazos chips share the memory bandwith between the cpu and gpu. If it's not bottlenecking one it's bottlenecking the other. I'm guessing llano will have the same problem.

 

[Skurge]

Don't bet on it.

Brazos chips share the memory bandwith between the cpu and gpu. If it's not bottlenecking one it's bottlenecking the other. I'm guessing llano will have the same problem.

Well, Brazos only had a single channel memory controller, Llano should have 2. Although I agree that it will be bandwidth limited in many cases.

 

[Skurge]

http://www.nordichardware.com/news/69-cpu-chipset/42585-amd-e-450-fusion-apu-with-turbo-in-q3.html

This page shows what I assume to be an entry level Llano, the E2-3250. One can only hope that the higher end Llano have a better GPU, because the one in the E2-3250 looks to be about half as good as the brand-new 6450. Also I really hope the E2-3250 is a desktop part and not a laptop part.

AMD E2-3250 will be a stripped down version of Llano that will be an entry level alterantive for desktops.

Looks like it will be for desktops. They also say its a stripped down version of Llano.

 

[Martimus]

There aren't many $3000 computers that will run Civ V at max settings at high resolutions from what I have heard. Llano won't be some magicly cheap supercomputer, but it should be cheaper than the current equivalent setup (Phenom II + HD5570 or so) which should run it ok at medium settings, or lower resolutions.

Either way it may be 6 weeks or more until you see Llano systems available to purchase.

EDIT: This chart shows that the approximate GPU equivalent (HD5570) runs Civ V at 37.1 FPS using minimum Quality DX9 at 1280x1024. This is playable for a TBS, but by no means is it a great frame rate.

* Chart found in the anandtech article here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4263/amds-radeon-hd-6450-uvd3-meets-htpc/8

 

[Topweasel]

Looks like it will be for desktops. They also say its a stripped down version of Llano.

Yeah just an FYI.

When looking at model numbers.

E = Low end low power. When you think of E think Brazos and Zacate. Having a Llano here as desktop options, is really helpful for multifunction HTPC setups because you get lower clocked 10.5 cores that can get a lot more work done then the ones used for E-350.

A = General use CPU's almost all will be APU's and will be where most of the Laptop CPU's will be hiding.

FX= Performance chips, primarily all Desktop chips and for the first announced ones will all be BullDozer based.

 

[Topweasel]

Looking at the chart here http://www.nordichardware.com/news/69-cpu-chipset/42639-amd-to-launch-six-llano-models-in-july.html .The APU most people will look at will be the A3550. For comparison sake to the E3250, it will have twice the cores (2-4), 4 times the cache (1MB-4MB), the GPU will be ~100MHz faster, the GPU will also have ~2.5x the SP units (160-400). Speeds on the CPU on the CPU cores are unknown and both are supposedly 65W TDP's I am guessing that the 2P Husky units will actually be lower then that.

There are a couple 110W units, but the only difference between the A3550 and A3560P seem to be target segmants. The P models seemed to be CPU performance version (with the 3400 and its smaller GPU also having a P model) where I am guessing the extra 40w is for upping the CPU clock speed. That should make the non-P models very flexible in OC'ing. It could also mean that the P models are targeted for Desktops with higher TDP allowances then Laptops and the non P models might only be laptop socket CPU's (FS1 instead of FM1) even though they list FM1 for all of them since they also have the E3250 listed as FM1 and every E series has been a Soldered on FT1 CPU.

If the P versions are the only desktop versions then I would guess that the A3550P for people not planning on discrete and A3450P for people that are. Since these are all Dye shrunk Athlon II parts, I am guessing that they will be clocked lower then one would expect out of the gate and would therefore have great OC headroom. They would want to take a chance that as a refined core technology that it might cannibalize the BD sales on the 4 and 6 models. Specially with the BD CPU's will have smaller die sizes.

 

[trexpesto]

I am guessing that they will be clocked lower then one would expect out of the gate and would therefore have great OC headroom.

According to ars technica, you may be wrong! Beware!
For your amusement :
http://static.arstechnica.net/assets/2011/04/llano-team-thumb-640xauto-20901.jpg
Check the safety signs they have partially covered by the AMD banner.