AMD layoffs

[iCyborg]

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/new...er-from-amd-ceo-rory-read-to-the-company.aspx

AMD will announce its new course, codenamed "Project WIN"on November 9th, 2011.

Bear in mind that this is supposedly an internal email and nothing is mentioned in the marketwire release about the worldcast. I wouldn't expect any announcements, unless you work for AMD.

 

[JoJoman88]

I'm less blaming and more pointing out that it looks worse than it is, and should improve with fab improvements just like Phenom. AMD voluntarily gave up control of it's Fab process for some quick cash, that was their decision and they are having to deal with the consequences.

I am a bit amazed personally that all the money that the new owners have thrown into GF hasn't seen a smoother transition to 32nm. I mean you would think it would be a help to solving early issues that they haven't switched materials. Also, aren't they also using same materials process for 28nm, a node that GF as an independent company had more say in than AMD?

I read a post discussing how IBM who GF works with for Fab technology is more laboratory oriented where as Intel, partly due to having a lot of facilities, does a more engineering based approach.

I was thinking the same, AMD spun off it's fab so they would not directly have to pay for the Fab's improvements and get some cash in from the spin-off. Now they are just one of GF's customers( all be it the biggest) that will have to wait until they can work out the problems with their processes. Now it can be debated in my mind, was this the best thing for AMD to do in the long run. AMD is clearly not happy with GF, but has little say in what happens. The loss of control over the processes that make your CPU/GPU's is going to hurt AMD in the long run,

 

[Medu]

I was thinking the same, AMD spun off it's fab so they would not directly have to pay for the Fab's improvements and get some cash in from the spin-off. Now they are just one of GF's customers( all be it the biggest) that will have to wait until they can work out the problems with their processes. Now it can be debated in my mind, was this the best thing for AMD to do in the long run. AMD is clearly not happy with GF, but has little say in what happens. The loss of control over the processes that make your CPU/GPU's is going to hurt AMD in the long run,

They did it because they were about to go backrupt. They were losing billions each year and only make a few hundred million in a good year.
GF owners have been pumping in money but that is to try and catch up. GF have to develop a SOI process and a bulk process which is probably holding them back. Intel have shown over the last 10 years that SOI was a complete waste of time and money so the sooner that it is dropped the better.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Bobcat/Zacate and Llano went pretty smooth, don't you think? Both were late, but mostly due to genuine production problems, and they got each out in time for it to be successful (FI, Llano needed only to be out by back to school, and widely available by holiday season, where Bobcat needed to out yesterday).

Then, ironically, it appears to be the aspects of BD which were taking such a pounding before its release that are working quite well (CMT int, shared SMT FPU), and the it was the more traditional single-thread performance that really brought it down. They can't realistically can everything BD, but focusing on products of substantially less complexity would probably be a good move.

Like others, I am suspicious that much of what we're reading is code for, "developing markets pay better, and represent less risk."

That may be the reason, but I still dont see the point of blaming GF for AMDs problems. Since AMD doesnt have their own fabs, GF is basically a part of AMD, or more accurately I guess, AMD is totally dependent on GF. So for all practical purposes, the bottom line is getting the product out and having it function well, whether it is AMDs fault or GFs fault doesnt really matter.

 

[exar333]

They did it because they were about to go backrupt. They were losing billions each year and only make a few hundred million in a good year.
GF owners have been pumping in money but that is to try and catch up. GF have to develop a SOI process and a bulk process which is probably holding them back. Intel have shown over the last 10 years that SOI was a complete waste of time and money so the sooner that it is dropped the better.

ATIC is really calling the shots at GF and they really didn't have much experience in managing fab production before GloFo. I do not claim to know the inner workings, but rumbling on the net seems to at least point to this as a possible reason contributing to some of the current woes there. You can throw lots and lots of $$$$$ at a problem and not neccessarily fix it...

 

[IntelUser2000]

I think Brazos in its current form would make an excellent tablet CPU.

In terms of CPUs for phones, I'm not sure that they'll go there. If anything, they could just license ARM's technology and integrate their own GPU.

In all honesty, I don't think even Brazos matters that much. It was good when it first came out, but with Sandy Bridge based Pentiums and X2 Llanos, its being squeezed out of the market just like Atom based Netbooks are getting squeezed out. If you don't believe me, take a look at your favorite store for price comparisons.

On Tablet, the question seems to be either you got a low, low power CPU, or you don't. Even the current 45nm Atom chips are better positioned. Tablet Brazos at 4.5W TDP is coming next year which is still not enough versus Atom at 3W already.

 

[Idontcare]

ATIC is really calling the shots at GF and they really didn't have much experience in managing fab production before GloFo. I do not claim to know the inner workings, but rumbling on the net seems to at least point to this as a possible reason contributing to some of the current woes there. You can throw lots and lots of $$$$$ at a problem and not neccessarily fix it...

Recall that recently ATIC moved to replace a handful of senior executives.

They obviously weren't happy with how the original AMD contigent was continuing to manage the fabs post-spinoff.

 

[exar333]

Recall that recently ATIC moved to replace a handful of senior executives.

They obviously weren't happy with how the original AMD contigent was continuing to manage the fabs post-spinoff.

Yeah. I have been involved in several instances where an investment group purchased good companies and ran them into the ground because they were experts in the market. This is what worries me about AMD/GloFo. These were troubled companies to begin with, and now they appear to have little or no leadership.

 

[Idontcare]

Yeah. I have been involved in several instances where an investment group purchased good companies and ran them into the ground because they were experts in the market. This is what worries me about AMD/GloFo. These were troubled companies to begin with, and now they appear to have little or no leadership.

Well to be fair to ATIC its not like they started out with a well-oiled business entity and then proceeded to run it into the ground.

Look at what happened with AMD's prior spin-off (Spansion).

 

[veri745]

Well to be fair to ATIC its not like they started out with a well-oiled business entity and then proceeded to run it into the ground.

Look at what happened with AMD's prior spin-off (Spansion).

Yeah, but Spansion wasn't exactly in a good market at that time.

Flash memory prices and sales weren't exactly booming in the 2007-2009 timeframe.

 

[Idontcare]

Yeah, but Spansion wasn't exactly in a good market at that time.

Flash memory prices and sales weren't exactly booming in the 2007-2009 timeframe.

And what decisions were made by management prior to those lean times which resulted in Spansion being so weak that it could not survive them?

 

[cbn]

In all honesty, I don't think even Brazos matters that much. It was good when it first came out, but with Sandy Bridge based Pentiums and X2 Llanos, its being squeezed out of the market just like Atom based Netbooks are getting squeezed out. If you don't believe me, take a look at your favorite store for price comparisons.

On Tablet, the question seems to be either you got a low, low power CPU, or you don't. Even the current 45nm Atom chips are better positioned. Tablet Brazos at 4.5W TDP is coming next year which is still not enough versus Atom at 3W already.

I am becoming more skeptical about AMD's plans with Bobcat when I see the 28nm Bobcats delayed until June 2012.

Maybe higher wafer costs are the blame for this? If that is true the maybe this is the first sign of a changing of the guard as 28nm ARMs will be shipping close to the the same time as 28nm Bobcats!

ARM is for the first time justifying the same wafer costs as entry level x86!

 

[cbn]

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/new...er-from-amd-ceo-rory-read-to-the-company.aspx

AMD will announce its new course, codenamed "Project WIN"on November 9th, 2011.

Maybe Project WIN stands for "Windows Isn't Necessary"

A time for AMD to explore other CPU choices (beyond x86) is sure to be at the root of this.

 

[antisocialmunky]

I am becoming more skeptical about AMD's plans with Bobcat when I see the 28nm Bobcats delayed until June 2011.

Maybe higher wafer costs are the blame for this? If that is true the maybe this is the first sign of a changing of the guard as 28nm ARMs will be shipping close to the the same time as 28nm Bobcats!

ARM is for the first time justifying the same wafer costs as entry level x86!

Delayed so far that the 64 bit time rolls over to the past.

 

[cbn]

Delayed so far that the 64 bit time rolls over to the past.

Thanks, I fixed it.

(Changed June 2011 to June 2012)

 

[exar333]

Well to be fair to ATIC its not like they started out with a well-oiled business entity and then proceeded to run it into the ground.

Look at what happened with AMD's prior spin-off (Spansion).

Valid point, but I think their contract with AMD speaks for itself. The fact that AMD is just paying for good wafers raised alarm bells in and of itself. GloFo still feels like a player meant to prop-up AMD to me with these sweet deals. Unfortunately, they are not delivering and that is obviously not helping relations between the two entities.

 

[Vesku]

Didn't TSMC give NVIDIA and AMD similar good wafer pricing when 40nm had such a terrible beginning?

 

[Cerb]

That may be the reason, but I still dont see the point of blaming GF for AMDs problems. Since AMD doesnt have their own fabs, GF is basically a part of AMD, or more accurately I guess, AMD is totally dependent on GF. So for all practical purposes, the bottom line is getting the product out and having it function well, whether it is AMDs fault or GFs fault doesnt really matter.

I would say that depends. When there isn't enough capacity, it could be the fab, much as the 40nm parts shortage was TSMC's fault. When that's the main problem, though, it's not so much of a problem. When they keep being late because of their design needing work, and then it comes out slow, hot, and is a generally undesirable product, that's all AMD. And, if +6 months can make the difference between a good product and a bad one, it was bad (they could very well end up with just that problem, depending on exactly what they are doing for the Brazos replacement).

 

[Vesku]

Judging from Llano, I'd scoff at anyone claiming GF 32nm was off to a good start. Phenom architecture tweaked for 32nm without GPU and it still has a poor power curve at 3+GHz. Premature to trash designs until they work out the kinks in 32nm.

 

[Majic 7]

Just read at TechReport that AMD has gutted the PR dept. No big loss there except for the people who got blindsided by this. Apparently they had no clue this was coming.

 

[RussianSensation]

Maybe Project WIN stands for "Windows Isn't Necessary"

A time for AMD to explore other CPU choices (beyond x86) is sure to be at the root of this.

You are clever

I doubt they'll abandon X86. However, if they don't license ARM, and start massaging Brazos platform into smartphone/tablet/low-power server space, that could be a new direction while maintaining their current portfolio of products. Problem is Intel hasn't really moved into this area much (probably because it's less profitable and more risky and they might lack expertise to compete), while Nvidia had a very challenging time breaking into smartphones with Tegra, at least in the beginning. Certainly to do an internal all-in-one chip design for those markets will require a lot more than the $200 million they'll save by cutting workforce. It would mean hiring engineers with expertise in those markets. So essentially the savings from the current 1400 people you laid off will be spent on hiring people with new skills - it's a wash.

 

[Idontcare]

Just read at TechReport that AMD has gutted the PR dept. No big loss there except for the people who got blindsided by this. Apparently they had no clue this was coming.

Given that they apparently also had no clue that the real bulldozer was coming, its of no surprise really that this blindsided them as well.

 

[Majic 7]

Given that they apparently also had no clue that the real bulldozer was coming, its of no surprise really that this blindsided them as well.

Fewer PR people in the world can only be a good thing in my world view. Not anyone I look to for information. If I ever feel the need for smoky farts maybe I'll look one of them up.

 

[Vesku]

Consequence of squandering the FX name, imo. PR had to have known it was going to be a rocky release early enough to switch to a Phenom III moniker or similar.

 

[exar333]

Fewer PR people in the world can only be a good thing in my world view. Not anyone I look to for information. If I ever feel the need for smoky farts maybe I'll look one of them up.

Good PR is ESSENTIAL to any product. If you have the best of something, and no one knows about it, how are you going to make $$$?

Intel survived on excellent PR when their products struggled. When your product is good, and you have good PR, things are REALLY good. Think Apple. Their laptops are very good quality, built well, and use high-quality components. Think what you will about their prices and mac OS, but their PR does a great job marketing and selling excitement for every release.