AMD layoffs

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eternalone

Golden Member
Sep 10, 2008
1,500
2
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Looks like its time for me to sell my AM3+ board and just move to intel now since I have a strong feeling BD revisions wont do much for it, and Pildriver etc will probably not even compete with intel offerings. The nail in the coffin for me was the prices they are charging for their FX cpus are ridiculous, looks to me like they are just trying to make a a profit off bad cpu's that were not even meant for desktop use. A company thats doing what AMD is doing is definitely moving out of the desktop area fast and in a hurry.
 
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notty22

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2010
3,375
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Charlie has some information on this also.
There are a few things that come to mind here, the lists we have seen, and a few that asked not to be publicly named, are some of the best and brightest at AMD. Having lost their CEO under exceptionally stupid circumstances, then their COO, VP of corporate strategy, and quite possibly their best remaining executive asset at that point, Rick Bergman, you have to wonder what is going on?
According to Icrontic, the list of ‘optimized’ employees is going to hurt. Carrell Killebrew, the man credited with Eyefinity, probably the largest advantage AMD has in the graphics market right now, VP of corporate strategy Patrick Moorhead, and many others. Add to this the brain drain that has happened over the last few months, people like Dr. Gamal Refai-Ahmed, David Hoff, and dozens of others, you have to wonder who is left.
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
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Actually, RussianSensation, most of the things that make FX bad are related to the current state of GF 32nm process. AMD did drop the ball regarding IPC, but it is two other factors combining with that (Hot and failing to meet frequency goals) that combine to create a mediocre FX product.

They spun off Global Foundries, so they don't have much direct control over how the 32nm process is improved. I would love to hear the story of how Bulldozer ended up meeting it's design efficiency goals while missing IPC targets, unless those targets were just external bluffing. IMO, most trimming should be done in less critical areas. They should be actively looking for more engineering talent.

Edit: But then again they are pretty much saying it's become too hard to compete in the performance x86 market. So perhaps they do not need more engineers, just quicker deployment from concept to silicon.


Actually blaming GF for amds BD mishap is not fair to GF . AMD decided on gate first not GF . Amd desided to stay with SOI when it cost 10% more than balk and SOI usefulness lessons as the xtors shrink . So blaming GF is just BS . Most all the same people work at the german fabs .
 

exar333

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2004
8,518
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Actually blaming GF for amds BD mishap is not fair to GF . AMD decided on gate first not GF . Amd desided to stay with SOI when it cost 10% more than balk and SOI usefulness lessons as the xtors shrink . So blaming GF is just BS . Most all the same people work at the german fabs .

They deserve a lot of the blame though. 32nm GloFo is terrible. Not any better than their 45nm production line, and marginally better clocks. Equal blame all-around if you ask me.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
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Reflexively blaming the foundry is getting old.
It's just poor dated architecture:
http://semiaccurate.com/2011/08/21/and-the-bulldozer-die-size-is/
or here:
orochidie-1.jpg


Look at the die picture. The L2 Cache is same or even further distance from the core than L3 Cache. Who does this? So the extra level of cache does not help with the read latency. If the die is 20mm x 15mm, there could be 10mm of wire go get data from L2 cache to wherever it is going in the core. That is a huge distance of dozens of extra cycles on top of whatever other logic is there. Not only is it latency, but it's also burning power just staging and moving data around back and forth, charging and discharging wire cap. The issue is that with each process shrink, wires get more and more expensive in terms of latency, and wire power becomes more and more dominant. This looks like it was architected by someone with the old mindset that wires are "free" and/or "stuff for back-end guys to worry about" whereas in modern process, you need to architect around the wire delays and wire power consumption as the primary concern. If you don't, the foundry is not going to save you. You screwed up, not them.
 

Vesku

Diamond Member
Aug 25, 2005
3,743
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Actually blaming GF for amds BD mishap is not fair to GF . AMD decided on gate first not GF . Amd desided to stay with SOI when it cost 10% more than balk and SOI usefulness lessons as the xtors shrink . So blaming GF is just BS . Most all the same people work at the german fabs .

I'm less blaming and more pointing out that it looks worse than it is, and should improve with fab improvements just like Phenom. AMD voluntarily gave up control of it's Fab process for some quick cash, that was their decision and they are having to deal with the consequences.

I am a bit amazed personally that all the money that the new owners have thrown into GF hasn't seen a smoother transition to 32nm. I mean you would think it would be a help to solving early issues that they haven't switched materials. Also, aren't they also using same materials process for 28nm, a node that GF as an independent company had more say in than AMD?

I read a post discussing how IBM who GF works with for Fab technology is more laboratory oriented where as Intel, partly due to having a lot of facilities, does a more engineering based approach.
 

Dice144

Senior member
Oct 22, 2010
654
1
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10% of the workforce could mean a LOT of different things. Engineers and QC guys who work on an actual CPU do not represent all (or even most) of the workforce. You could likely trim 20-25% of the workforce and potentially leave the engineers and 'doers' intact. That doesn't mean that areas suffer though...

It remains to be seen what employees are cut, and what divisions are impacted the most. I agree with some others though, if they are not performaning, then cleaing a little house and replacing with better could be a good thing.

Agreed
 

IlllI

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2002
4,929
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i hope they fired the people who developed that abomination called bulldozer
 

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
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I hope whoever takes over scraps Bulldozer as a desktop product, and I hope they mothball the Piledriver project. They need to focus on their products that are actually successful.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
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We keep sitting and waiting and *hoping* for a competitive AMD on the desktop/mobile CPU side. However, this is not going to happen unless AMD has a lot more R&D $ and hires the most talented executives and engineers in the world (most of which left or were fired from AMD a long time ago).

If AMD spends the next 3-5 years focusing on selling competitive products in the faster growing tablet/smartphone space, if successful, they can accumulate a lot more $$ down the line. Then they could actually sit down and allocate the necessary resources needed to come up with a competitive CPU.

They likely won't abandon desktop design completely, but take a lot of its R&D funding and pour it into consumer style CPU designs (such as variations of Brazos, etc.).

There is no point in pouring $ into a dog which is Bulldozer and AMD doesn't have another 5 years to invest into another brand new desktop CPU architecture (or worse yet, spend another 5 years and millions of dollars and flop, again). Time is running out and they have to think completely outside of the box. Obviously, they'll be competing against Tegra and ARM if they choose to design their own tablet/smartphone CPUs - an extremely risky strategy.

However, the very same people who flopped Bulldozer aren't going to suddenly design a CPU that can topple Intel, not when Intel has a manufacturing node advantage. I believe AMD will need its graphics division to sell an all-in-one smartphone/tablet chip. So that leaves desktop CPUs and servers as the area that will get most of its funding cut. Just a theory.
 
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SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
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I think Brazos in its current form would make an excellent tablet CPU.

In terms of CPUs for phones, I'm not sure that they'll go there. If anything, they could just license ARM's technology and integrate their own GPU.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
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The writing is on the wall. AMD now only has a 4.9% market share in servers.

There is demand for low power servers, a new market segment:
http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_19240331

AMD can't compete with Intel on high-end. It makes sense for them to focus on low power CPUs if they believe there will be a fundamental shift in server chip demand away from a market currently dominated by very powerful server chips towards a low power design.

It's like the DSLR market for cameras. No one thought it was going to be threatened by Micro-4/3 cameras. Sure, a niche consumer that demands the absolute best in image quality will still buy a DSLR, but if there is suddenly a huge demand for cameras that get you 80% of the quality in 1/2 the size, you definitely want to be on that train. AMD is probably eyeing low-powered devices as that next core market movement and smartphones/tablets because that's what the consumers really want - not desktops!
 
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Aug 11, 2008
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My question is if AMD cannot do a better design/execution than bulldozer in the CPU segment, which has been their area of "expertise" for the life of the company, do they have the resources/engineering talent/production facilities to get into the tablet/smartphone business and be competitive?? And AMD may be ahead in the low power fusion segment now, but you can bet Intel will not ignore this segment either.
 

nenforcer

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2008
1,782
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I'm less blaming and more pointing out that it looks worse than it is, and should improve with fab improvements just like Phenom. AMD voluntarily gave up control of it's Fab process for some quick cash, that was their decision and they are having to deal with the consequences.

I read a post discussing how IBM who GF works with for Fab technology is more laboratory oriented where as Intel, partly due to having a lot of facilities, does a more engineering based approach.

I'm in this camp, seeing as how the FX chips are overclocking to 8.5GHz using Liquid Nitrogen and Helium (4+ air / 5+ water), this architecture looks like it was designed for the future and will scale up to rediculous speeds.

Seeing as how Bulldozer was in development for 4-5 years prior to its eventual release and its intended to last as long as the previous K10 architecture did, the better part of a decade.

Clearly there have been a bunch of issues (manufacturing) resulting in the delays but I'm hoping AMD (and Dirk Meyer) will get the last laught by the time Piledriver and laters CPU's release.

I never buy new CPU's / architectures when they first come out, anyways, whether it be AMD / Intel. Glad I avoided the entire P67 chipset debacle earlier this year.

If IBM is more laboratory oriented and Intel more fab-engineering oriented, what does that make AMD? Dirt / mud backyard oriented with all of their monster trucks and tools?
 
Aug 11, 2008
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I'm in this camp, seeing as how the FX chips are overclocking to 8.5GHz using Liquid Nitrogen and Helium (4+ air / 5+ water), this architecture looks like it was designed for the future and will scale up to rediculous speeds.

Seeing as how Bulldozer was in development for 4-5 years prior to its eventual release and its intended to last as long as the previous K10 architecture did, the better part of a decade.

Clearly there have been a bunch of issues (manufacturing) resulting in the delays but I'm hoping AMD (and Dirk Meyer) will get the last laught by the time Piledriver and laters CPU's release.

I never buy new CPU's / architectures when they first come out, anyways, whether it be AMD / Intel. Glad I avoided the entire P67 chipset debacle earlier this year.

If IBM is more laboratory oriented and Intel more fab-engineering oriented, what does that make AMD? Dirt / mud backyard oriented with all of their monster trucks and tools?

AMD getting the last laugh with the Bulldozer architecture?? Good luck with that.
Cant believe people are still excusing bulldozer by saying it is ahead of its time. Even if they can improve the IPC and power consumption and ramp up clockspeeds, Intel will probably have Haswell out by then.
 

iCyborg

Golden Member
Aug 8, 2008
1,387
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gevorg said:
The investors seems happy, AMD is up 5% today.
Investors are always happy when people get fired. Sometimes I wonder whether companies do lay offs just to increase their stock price.
It was 5% over the day, but very little after the news was released, it's only 0.5% after hours.
 

iCyborg

Golden Member
Aug 8, 2008
1,387
94
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We keep sitting and waiting and *hoping* for a competitive AMD on the desktop/mobile CPU side. However, this is not going to happen unless AMD has a lot more R&D $ and hires the most talented executives and engineers in the world (most of which left or were fired from AMD a long time ago).
Athlon 64 X2 wasn't so long ago, and most of those people are still around. 48xx/58xx were also pretty good against competition. Considering that Intel is 10x AMD, and nVidia about 4x ATI people-wise, I disagree that 'most of talented engineers have long left'. Sure Bulldozer looks like a flop, but even mighty Intel had flops...

It's sad how much bigger Intel is, and how companies like Google are aggressively hiring, while AMD is cutting workforce. I was hoping AMD would grow bigger, it's hard to see them putting pressure on Intel any time soon :(
Although I quite like the fact that my i7 920 hasn't needed upgrade for 3 years and I'll probably skip IB as well.
 

SithSolo1

Diamond Member
Mar 19, 2001
7,740
11
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Some of the AMD folks that have gotten laid off today include Director of the Products Group, senior engineer Carrell Killebrew; PR Manager Antal Tungler; PR Rep Bernard Fernandes; FirePro Product Marketing Managers Robert Miller and Lidia Gentilucci; Corporate VP of Strategy and Fellow Patrick Moorhead; Margaret Franco, VP of Marketing; and John Volkmann, Corporate Marketing Fellow.

I wonder how the engineer got tossed in with all the PR and Marketing people.
 

exar333

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2004
8,518
8
91
I'm in this camp, seeing as how the FX chips are overclocking to 8.5GHz using Liquid Nitrogen and Helium (4+ air / 5+ water), this architecture looks like it was designed for the future and will scale up to rediculous speeds.

Seeing as how Bulldozer was in development for 4-5 years prior to its eventual release and its intended to last as long as the previous K10 architecture did, the better part of a decade.

Clearly there have been a bunch of issues (manufacturing) resulting in the delays but I'm hoping AMD (and Dirk Meyer) will get the last laught by the time Piledriver and laters CPU's release.

I never buy new CPU's / architectures when they first come out, anyways, whether it be AMD / Intel. Glad I avoided the entire P67 chipset debacle earlier this year.

If IBM is more laboratory oriented and Intel more fab-engineering oriented, what does that make AMD? Dirt / mud backyard oriented with all of their monster trucks and tools?

Meaningless PR stunts meant to distract folks who don't know any better with something 'shiny' to look at.
 
Oct 14, 2011
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Some of the AMD folks that have gotten laid off today include Director of the Products Group, senior engineer Carrell Killebrew; PR Manager Antal Tungler; PR Rep Bernard Fernandes; FirePro Product Marketing Managers Robert Miller and Lidia Gentilucci; Corporate VP of Strategy and Fellow Patrick Moorhead; Margaret Franco, VP of Marketing; and John Volkmann, Corporate Marketing Fellow.

I wonder how the engineer got tossed in with all the PR and Marketing people.

This Carrell Killebrew?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2679
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
The writing is on the wall. AMD now only has a 4.9% market share in servers.

There is demand for low power servers, a new market segment:
http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_19240331
IMO, both Intel and AMD dropped the ball by not making Atom and Bobcat for servers and network appliances from day 1. While no single processor will ever be enough for some users, there are many users out there for which it is just wasteful, and both Intel and AMD both treated them like crazies, claiming performance per Watt was so superior in the big servers (forget that they take up several times the space, cost a ton, and you'd need to add expensive high speed interfaces for highly scalable applications; and then you have glorified network appliances, like most basic firewalls, DNS servers, etc., where sub-1U low-power boxes would be nice ways to use rack space).

While it's becoming a new market segment now, that many weaker nodes with their own memory was the best way to scale has been known since the 70s. We had just been getting such speed advancements in big fast CPUs, that nobody halfway mainstream cared until the single-thread performance started dropping off.

Clearly there have been a bunch of issues (manufacturing) resulting in the delays but I'm hoping AMD (and Dirk Meyer) will get the last laught by the time Piledriver and laters CPU's release.
Maybe, but if anyone inside AMD thought that they would be able to do a good job of manufacturing a CPU by its release date, and designed it based on hitting very high speeds early on, that would have been a colossal failure all by itself. Designing it to scale up over time, with minimal changes to do so, OK, but hitting >8GHz at release tells me they were trying to make a speed demon (intentionally weak per clock, to hit higher clocks), like the P4...even today, practically nobody wants one of those.

My question is if AMD cannot do a better design/execution than bulldozer in the CPU segment, which has been their area of "expertise" for the life of the company, do they have the resources/engineering talent/production facilities to get into the tablet/smartphone business and be competitive?? And AMD may be ahead in the low power fusion segment now, but you can bet Intel will not ignore this segment either.
Bobcat/Zacate and Llano went pretty smooth, don't you think? Both were late, but mostly due to genuine production problems, and they got each out in time for it to be successful (FI, Llano needed only to be out by back to school, and widely available by holiday season, where Bobcat needed to out yesterday).

Then, ironically, it appears to be the aspects of BD which were taking such a pounding before its release that are working quite well (CMT int, shared SMT FPU), and the it was the more traditional single-thread performance that really brought it down. They can't realistically can everything BD, but focusing on products of substantially less complexity would probably be a good move.

Like others, I am suspicious that much of what we're reading is code for, "developing markets pay better, and represent less risk."
 

piesquared

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2006
1,651
473
136
I hope whoever takes over scraps Bulldozer as a desktop product, and I hope they mothball the Piledriver project. They need to focus on their products that are actually successful.

You have no idea how successful or unsuccessful Bulldozer will be. The appeal to enthusiasts is no indication of a chip that was build for servers with GPU integration being a major design criteria.

As for the lay offs, this is a pretty good take on it.

Prairie says that AMD want to take some of the $200 million it will save from the layoffs and other cost-cutting initiatives and funnel that money into new initiatives. “It’s about putting in place a competitive cost structure, but it’s also about accelerating some of our future growth opportunities,” he says.

In other words, AMD will hire people after it’s done with the job cutting. Prairie couldn’t say how many people the company expects to hire.

http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2011/11/amd-workforc/