AMD launches Zen+ 12nm Ryzen and X470 motherboards

[Mockingbird]

More rational segmentation and positioning with this refresh.

X Versions now give higher speed and better cooler for the extra money. Where before you got no cooler at all.

And with all the new XFR/PB features, it will be much more efficient to NOT overclock (AFAIK, you lose those features when you overclock).

So X models are now MUCH more desirable, and there are fewer superfluous models.

I do agree that the X-variations didn't make much sense.

... more expensive AND loses the cooler?

Intel can get away with selling the K-variations for more and not without a cooler because the non-K variations are multiplier locked.

 

[Mockingbird]

The more I look at the slides, the more I am convinced that this is actually a trial balloon so that AMD can get feedback on the prices.

 

[Markfw]

The more I look at the slides, the more I am convinced that this is actually a trial balloon so that AMD can get feedback on the prices.

Well, I hope the feedback allows them to keep it, I like the pricing now (way below what Ryzen released at)

$309 for an 1800X today ? I paid $500

 

[formulav8]

Well, I hope the feedback allows them to keep it, I like the pricing now (way below what Ryzen released at)

Yeah not bad, especially with good quality coolers included. If the slides are true the B450 isn't listed as overclockable. The slide only shows x470/x370/b350 as overclock capable. It doesn't list an A420 chipset either, not that many here will care,

 

[Mockingbird]

Yeah not bad, especially with good quality coolers included. If the slides are true the B450 isn't listed as overclockable. The slide only shows x470/x370/b350 as overclock capable. It doesn't list an A420 chipset either, not that many here will care,

Another slide said that B450 supports overclocking.

I think the reason B450 isn't listed there is that only X470 motherboards are being released in April with B450 motherboards being released later.

 

[PeterScott]

I do agree that the X-variations didn't make much sense.

... more expensive AND loses the cooler?

Intel can get away with selling the K-variations for more and not without a cooler because the non-K variations are multiplier locked.

You have to do something to segment. AMDs previous segmentation didn't make a lot of sense. Why buy an X chip when the lower "speed" chip is fully unlocked (and tend to overclock just as well as the X chips) and has a free cooler. It was like paying more to get less with the X chips. I saw a lot of big sales on the X chips pushing them down to the price of the non-X chips, which indicates that most people followed the rational route and bought the lower priced, unlocked chip with a cooler.

Now what they are doing makes more sense. Before I would have bought a 1600/1700 without questions. Now I might consider the 2600X/2700X. X models have better coolers, reasonable price delta and the new XFR and Precision boost that might make it more feasible to skip overclocking, so the default clocks matter more.

It looks like a very nice refresh even if though it won't be a huge jump in performance.

 

[StinkyPinky]

So that Wraith Cooler that comes with 2700x, how capable is that?

With 105W tdp for the 2700x just wondering how much further that can OC without either thermal or architecture issues.

 

[StinkyPinky]

Just had a thought, the lack of a 2800x at launch. Perhaps it's a later release because it's a 12 core and they don't want to hobble sales of the 12c TR.

 

[Mockingbird]

So that Wraith Cooler that comes with 2700x, how capable is that?

With 105W tdp for the 2700x just wondering how much further that can OC without either thermal or architecture issues.

The Wraith Prism is basically the Wraith Max, but with different LEDs.

Wraith Max has rated TDP dissipation of 140W

Wraith Spire has rated TDP dissipation of 95W

 

[PeterScott]

I saw a head to head of Spire vs Max and the Max was ~10C cooler under load. It's a very nice cooler.

I would probably want to replace the Spire but I think the Max/Prism would be good enough for me, which make the X a much nicer package than it was before. I really think they are going to sell a higher proportion of X versions this time around.

 

[Mockingbird]

I saw a head to head of Spire vs Max and the Max was ~10C cooler under load. It's a very nice cooler.

I would probably want to replace the Spire but I think the Max/Prism would be good enough for me, which make the X a much nicer package than it was before. I really think they are going to sell a higher proportion of X versions this time around.

What AMD needs to do is make sure its products are sold at reasonable prices.

For example, Core i7-8700K may have an MSRP of $370, but it's selling for $333 right now on Amazon.

If Core i7-8700K is the processor that AMD intended for the Ryzen 7 2700X to compete against, then the latter shouldn't be priced at $369

More likely, this "leak" is a trial balloon so that AMD can gauge how much the public is willing to pay for its processors.

 

[TempAcc99]

And with all the new XFR/PB features, it will be much more efficient to NOT overclock (AFAIK, you lose those features when you overclock).

That is kind of what speaks against Ryzen. Even with my very old intel k CPU I can just up the multi and everything else including turbo just works as before, just with a higher multiplier.

2700x at same price as 8700k is a bit too high in my opinion. At least for now. Maybe when we know the full extend of performance impact due to meltdown the 2700x might be a bargain. meltdown is the one thing in favor of 2700x. with the 8700k you don't know what performance you are actually get in the future.

 

[coercitiv]

Even with my very old intel k CPU I can just up the multi and everything else including turbo just works as before, just with a higher multiplier.

You might be surprised just how many things no longer work as before once you increase that multiplier. Bring that multi 1x higher on a Skylake CPU and Speed Shift is bye bye. Activate XMP and some of your voltages are automatically raised to high values. Intel may have more mature power management features (which I like), but overclocking still dictates that a number of these be turned off in order to keep the system stable.

If I were to care about power management on my overclocked CPU I wouldn't check whether it can still idle at 1.6Ghz, I would check and expect it to idle in a deep C sleep state.

 

[William Gaatjes]

What sort of a bump is that?

IEC already answered it, it is the points where the sort of linear frequency per volt steps is no longer linear in the chart in your excellent ryzen thread.

 

[Ryzenenthusiast]

Prism would be good for 4 Ghz OC for Renderers and 4,2-4,3 Ghz OC for Gamers.

 

[Arachnotronic]

What AMD needs to do is make sure its products are sold at reasonable prices.

For example, Core i7-8700K may have an MSRP of $370, but it's selling for $333 right now on Amazon.

If Core i7-8700K is the processor that AMD intended for the Ryzen 7 2700X to compete against, then the latter shouldn't be priced at $369

More likely, this "leak" is a trial balloon so that AMD can gauge how much the public is willing to pay for its processors.

This is no "trial balloon." Major companies don't leak out price lists to get feedback from random people on the internet. They have dedicated marketing and finance groups that work to set the prices to maximize revenue/profits based on their understanding of the market, manufacturing costs, and so on.

 

[PeterScott]

What AMD needs to do is make sure its products are sold at reasonable prices.

For example, Core i7-8700K may have an MSRP of $370, but it's selling for $333 right now on Amazon.

If Core i7-8700K is the processor that AMD intended for the Ryzen 7 2700X to compete against, then the latter shouldn't be priced at $369

More likely, this "leak" is a trial balloon so that AMD can gauge how much the public is willing to pay for its processors.

MSRP is just a guideline for both Intel and AMD. Price fluctuate with supply and demand. When released 8700K was well above MSRP, and now after filling the initial demand spike, it is below.

I expect price won't be the differentiator. It will be close enough that those that want Intel will buy Intel, and those that want AMD will buy AMD, price swaying only a minority.

 

[Mockingbird]

MSRP is just a guideline for both Intel and AMD. Price fluctuate with supply and demand. When released 8700K was well above MSRP, and now after filling the initial demand spike, it is below.

I expect price won't be the differentiator. It will be close enough that those that want Intel will buy Intel, and those that want AMD will buy AMD, price swaying only a minority.

What seems curious (to me anyway) is the refusal to ditch the Ryzen 5 1500X and Ryzen 3 1300X.

Why are they still there?

 

[Tuna-Fish]

Just had a thought, the lack of a 2800x at launch. Perhaps it's a later release because it's a 12 core and they don't want to hobble sales of the 12c TR.

It can't be. Like with the last cpu, all non-apu chips use a single die, and that has 8 cores. Ryzen has one die per cpy, Threadripper has two, Epyc has 4. Lower core counts are done by disabling cores.

I think there is no need for a 2800 in their lineup, how is it differentiated from 2700? But if they do make one, it would probably just be a bunch of chips from their highest-clocking bin. (Which currently goes to TR.)

 

[PeterScott]

What seems curious (to me anyway) is the refusal to ditch the Ryzen 5 1500X and Ryzen 3 1300X.

Why are they still there?

Maybe they are keeping a line running for threadripper and the will ditch some of the defective core parts in old style Ryzen 5/3?

 

[Markfw]

One more thing to be considered. Most if not all of the Intel processors don't come with an HSF, correct ? I just checked the 8700k and it does NOT include the HSF

 

[PeterScott]

Intel K's don't come with HSF, most everything else does. Kind of like how 1800X didn't come with one.

 

[Markfw]

Intel K's don't come with HSF, most everything else does. Kind of like how 1800X didn't come with one.

I stand corrected. But the 2700X DOES come with one (if the slide is correct)

At least ALL the Ryzens come with an HSF, except TR

 

[PeterScott]

Yes, further up the page we are discussing that, and I mentioned it was a nice change, making the X CPUs more desirable.

Not just a HSF, but a fairly nice one.

 

[Rifter]

Looks good, but falls way short of making me want to upgrade CPU yet, will wait out zen2.