There s some healthy volume since the R5 HP Envy is the most sought laptop in Germany these days...
https://geizhals.de/?o=53
https://geizhals.de/?cat=nb&xf=9690_Raven+Ridge
There s some healthy volume since the R5 HP Envy is the most sought laptop in Germany these days...
https://geizhals.de/?o=53
https://geizhals.de/?cat=nb&xf=9690_Raven+Ridge
I don't see the problems you project. Anandtech, on Nov14 said they are getting it for review- so other reviewers must be getting them as well: https://www.anandtech.com/show/12038/ryzen-mobile-now-on-sale-hps-envy-x360- last sentence of the article.
And the chassi/cooling looks the same as used for Intel + MX150- but now cooling only APU: http://apusilicon.com/hp-envy-x360-internals/
There is also plenty enough data on youtube and reddit: for example, here is a test of constant 40W power use: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A0YMY1bG30 . Users report good temperatures at constant high load (73C), and no throttling.
Also- this laptop is not only sold in US, but it appeared, in different configurations, for sale in Italy, Czech Republic, UK. Base configuration was sold out at Best Buy, but now is back on sale. That all does not look like bad shortage of units, or slow model not fit for reviews.
I can't read German. I used Google translate and clicked on In Stock button and nothing shows up in the list. So, I think those link you provided proves my point, unless Google translate screwed up...
Not that it will do them much good. Everyone knows they're just a showroom for Amazon.
Few things to note. I didn't suggest that review items went out. That was another user. I merely suggested why it wouldn't be in AMD's best interest to apply pressure to HP to provide them with systems for reviewers. Laptops are generally the other way around. Reviewers contact OEMs for samples. Those points I made were not problems I was pointing out with the Envy in particular. That is the life of a laptop CPU. OEM choices have a much wider range of impact than on the desktop, even if it is just deciding what fan to use. The HP isn't the greatest test bed for displaying performance (though it might be great for performance per watt) because it is a 15w chasis. Where a 25w chasis could do extended (maybe infinite?) turbo runs and lengthy mXFR spikes. So if your goal was to show raw numbers or show how sweet it can run games. The Envy isn't going to be the best case scenario.
Users report the HP model to run at constant full CPU load at 2.4GHz for indefinite time: "I ranPrime95 for over an hour, and the CPU keep coasting at around 2.4Ghz'.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/commen...0_internals_thanks_to_userthe9thdude/dpy1vpn/
That is a clock (at Prime!) very similar to what is needed for Cinebench score of 550 with mXFR. So cooling must be fine.
But there is one point that I think it is important for AMD: how it positions these chips. So far- a lot of attention is directed at results in gaming. However, iGPU is bandwidth starved like all the previous APUs: it only performs at a level of ~7870K or 940m/MX130.
2500U: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bem_XyjbTDw&feature=youtu.be
7870K: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYn4iwfv8cY
Better cooling, or more CUs in R7 2700U can not help with bandwidth (/will not help gaming results much). So I hope AMD understands their product: it shines as a very good CPU, and for gaming it needs to be sold as CPU- with discreet GPUs. Without dGPU- it is able to play heavy AAA games only at 720p low 30fps -which makes it look like a poor gaming product, and can ruin Ryzen Mobile's reputation. So I think it would be wise for AMD to sell 2500U and 2700U at increased prices, but offer bundles with discounted Polaris10, 11 and 12. And for ultra budget 720p gaming on iGPU- new APU SKUs with cut down CPU cores (2c/4t or 3c/6t) would work just as fast, and would not ruin 2500U/2700U image.
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Look your not debating anything I stated. My point is these chips can be upped to 25w in an another chassis (I think the Acer is 25w). Numbers always win. If AMD was going to maximize viewership with the results they would use something like the Acer. I am debating it's spot in the market. I am not challenging the capabilities of the 2500u in a setup like the Envy. I am purely talking the focus of review samples and why if AMD was not sending them or pressuring HP to send them, why they wouldn't.
All of it is pretty useless because CPU manufacturers sending out retail OEM systems to a large portion of Reviewers out there isn't a thing.
Could you provide some reasoning/evidence that this HP is limited by 15W chassi, and can not use constant 25W? So far- I have already provided 3 reasons why it is at 25W (constant 2.4GHz clock at Prime- equal to clock achievable at 25W as per AMD slides; constant 40W system power use in game; and HP cooler capable of cooling down 15W+25W (Intel+ MX150). I can provide one more indication: it comes with 65W power supply, while Acer is currently listed with 45W PSU. So what is there that convinces you that HP x360 is limited to 15W chassi/not capable of 25W?
Edit: Also- a better look at the internals: http://apusilicon.com/hp-envy-a-closer-look-at-the-internals/
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IllogicalGlory
Senior member
- Mar 8, 2013
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Which scenario do you think more likely?
1. Lisa Su really wanted a new laptop; she asked the OEMs to send her one with Ryzen, but they said "sorry, CEO of AMD, we have enough to send to Best Buy, but we can't spare one for you".
2. Lisa Su wanted to demonstrate that Ryzen laptops were available to purchase at retail stores like Best Buy, so she purchased one and then tweeted out the picture of her standing in front of the Best Buy in order to drive sales and awareness.
Of course it's marketing. But it's good marketing. Lisa Su is personable, and people for the most part seem to like her. And respect her for the things she's done getting AMD moving the right direction again. One tweet tells you three things. Where to look for a retailer who's carrying it, that the AMD APU's are in shipping products. And a company and brand that they are in.
I'll be in the market for a laptop early next year, so I'm kind of excited to see what these can do. So, good job Lisa.
Because it is a 15w chassis and not a 25w chassis (and by chassis I am talking about it's cooling in this form). Unless its improperly reported to be a 15w chassis when it really is a 25w (lets stop calling it chassis as I think that might start get confusing when similar systems are configured for better cooling), it isn't a 25w configuration. These 2 CPU's can be configured for as low as 12w and as high as 25w. This has an effect on several things, max turbo, length of turbo, mXFR, length of mXFR. As for your it runs at 2.4 GHz. Well considering it's base clock is 2.0GHz and max limit is 3.6GHz I am not confident that 2.4GHz is the 4 core turbo limit and unlikely to be using 25w. As for a 60w Power adapter it means nothing other than HP decided to ship with a 60w power supply. It might not have been worth comparing to other Envy's to differentiate it by power supply even if they could use one that would cost them an extra dollar less. Now while the CPU is one of the larger power usage parts it's entirely possible that the combination of a 25w usage spike and their particular monitor choice, or with people using NVME and HDD's, that they felt safer with a 65w power supply. The end point being that if the Envy is a 15w thermally limited configuration as projected it can't be as consistently as fast a 25w version of it.
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- Aug 22, 2001
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But they price match Amazon now. I would certainly rather buy it immediately if in stock.
On topic, they wouldn't price match the Ryzen 5 2500u HP Envy 360 when I asked this week, because the Best Buy model is a "blue label" model with an exclusive chassis color.
Wait... isn't supposed to make later the High consumption version of this?
Is nice to see RR going to 2.4 Ghz at 25 Watts, but I want more performance with it. Maybe going 3.2 Ghz at 40 Watts?
Is nice to see RR going to 2.4 Ghz at 25 Watts, but I want more performance with it. Maybe going 3.2 Ghz at 40 Watts?
LOL - thats ridiculous - the OEMs build the product. APU's dont get sent out for testing - someone else on the board mentioned that as a marketing event - to show these APU's are in systems at best buy. OEM's build laptops its not like a gaming PC.
piesquared
Golden Member
- Oct 16, 2006
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And so since you never used the word "fact" in your definitive statement, i guess it is safe to assume that it wasn't meant to be a fact? ie, FUD?
Also, Anandtech has one on the way for review, and it is likely then that others do as well.
piesquared
Golden Member
- Oct 16, 2006
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Really is there anything better on the market than Raven Ridge? What is better in its class honestly. Raven Ridge holds up very well against intel's newest and best chips. The Zen based CPU from the material we have seen, some from marketing and some from leaked benchmarks floating around it is ahead, behind or tied depending on the benchmark. The efficiency leap AMD has pulled off here is remarkable. If they stick to there 25x20 goals this isnt a one trick pony either.
And the clear and away winner in graphics with the Vega architecture. It is already miles ahead and the architecture is cutting edge designed for the new and emerging APIs and game engines. Freesync will be everywhere now, no wonder manufacturers fell over each other getting Freesync monitors out there. Even intel wants to use it and have announced Freesync support. They have no choice but to respond and they can't do it with their graphics.
If there is any advantage for intel's chips (im not sure if its Coffee Lake, Sky Lake or Kaby Lake anymore) I'm missing it but AMD has the far superior GPU in Raven Ridge.
The slides AMD showed for these chips is likely very accurate or even sandbagging on performance and features as were the ones for Ryzen and EPYC. IMO Raven Ridge is the best chip they released this year and the others were no slouches.
And the clear and away winner in graphics with the Vega architecture. It is already miles ahead and the architecture is cutting edge designed for the new and emerging APIs and game engines. Freesync will be everywhere now, no wonder manufacturers fell over each other getting Freesync monitors out there. Even intel wants to use it and have announced Freesync support. They have no choice but to respond and they can't do it with their graphics.
If there is any advantage for intel's chips (im not sure if its Coffee Lake, Sky Lake or Kaby Lake anymore) I'm missing it but AMD has the far superior GPU in Raven Ridge.
The slides AMD showed for these chips is likely very accurate or even sandbagging on performance and features as were the ones for Ryzen and EPYC. IMO Raven Ridge is the best chip they released this year and the others were no slouches.
I really hate myself for bringing it up, but there is one area where Intel (Gen9.5) IGPs are superior. Arbitrary DRM ****. AMD still has no answer to that unfortunately.
Other then that, mobile Ryzen is looking fantastic.
I'm not sure if that is sarcasm or not
If not- then here is where I (an AMD fanboy) see Intel having advantage:1) Better battery life at low loads like browsing and video playback. This guarantees them best designs in ultra-portable segment, and high margins with it.
2) Ability to boost much higher, helping responsiveness.
3) Ability to clock higher, granting better performance with good cooling.
4) Integrated Thunderbolt support.
5) History of successful work with OEMs and owning laptop market. Many ready successful designs.
Raven Ridge, on the other hand, is only better in:
1) Better iGPU: should have better drivers, no Intel's artifacts when rendering games, and Freesync. But able to play most games only at 30fps at 720p low- which in turn can only give competitive advantage in ultra-portable light gaming. However, it comes at a cost of shorter battery life in browsing/playing videos- a huge negative for the portable segment. In other segments- that iGPU is overtaken by modern dGPUs, so only the lowest budget part of the gaming market (MX110 and MX130) can be taken. But then- Ryzen Mobile 4-core CPU is kind of too good to give to very cheapest laptops.
2) Maybe better efficiency/less heat in 720p gaming?
3) ?
1. I don't know if we actually know this. What is it based on? Qucksync?I'm not sure if that is sarcasm or not
1) Better battery life at low loads like browsing and video playback. This guarantees them best designs in ultra-portable segment, and high margins with it.
2) Ability to boost much higher, helping responsiveness.
3) Ability to clock higher, granting better performance with good cooling.
4) Integrated Thunderbolt support.
5) History of successful work with OEMs and owning laptop market. Many ready successful designs.
Raven Ridge, on the other hand, is only better in:
1) Better iGPU: should have better drivers, no Intel's artifacts when rendering games, and Freesync. But able to play most games only at 30fps at 720p low- which in turn can only give competitive advantage in ultra-portable light gaming. However, it comes at a cost of shorter battery life in browsing/playing videos- a huge negative for the portable segment. In other segments- that iGPU is overtaken by modern dGPUs, so only the lowest budget part of the gaming market (MX110 and MX130) can be taken. But then- Ryzen Mobile 4-core CPU is kind of too good to give to very cheapest laptops.
2) Maybe better efficiency/less heat in 720p gaming?
3) ?
2. Between how apps are written nowadays and the massive amount of memory and SSD's available. Responsiveness on a modern CPU by being a couple 100MHz faster is a joke.
3. Lets also not pretend that clocks higher is really a thing, Ryzen R7 might not clock as high as Kaby Lake, but we are talking mobile CPU's with tighter power limits. It does clock faster but not by much.
4. That is a good point. But a bit over used if you ask me. Specially with the availability of USB-C. Take Dell for example spent 2 years offering a single cable dock for Thunderbolt. Immediately swapped over to USB-C once they could.
5. This doesn't have anything to do with the CPU.
3. Cheaper
4. Better SMT for better responsiveness considering the similarity in clock-speed.
5. Better GPU makes tablets, convertibles, and ultra portables more interesting.
AMD does not recognize revenue when shipped - its the removal of the product so they might and probably are shipping a bunch of them but its up to the OEM's and their design wins for sell though. Pressure is building on AMD to push their business forward - Consumer Ryzen is a small impact of what they are shipping now. Desktop Ryzen was a big hit but that is a tiny market compared to the server/APU market and with products shipping to both now they are due to explode here in the non to distant future.
Now available at $575 with ~Dec15 shipping date:
http://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/hp-envy-x360-convertible-laptop-15z-touch-1za07av-1
http://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/hp-envy-x360-convertible-laptop-15z-touch-1za07av-1
Wow! So they managed to get the performance of a 95W desktop APU in a 15W chip??
BTW,that A10 7870K reviewed used 2400MHZ DDR3,which is uncommon for these kind of systems as it was the most expensive DDR3 at the time of release.
So,not even the highest end laptop Raven Ridge APU,in a 15W chip with the same bandwidth performs the same in with much less heat and lower power consumption.
This bodes well for the 25W chassis and the desktop APUs next year. The desktop chips won't be limited to 2400MHZ DDR4 and can be overclocked.
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