AMD GPU14 Tech Event Sept 25 - AMD Hawiian Islands

[AnandThenMan]

I think it's eery how similar to Intel this is, only on a whole new level of control..

You own an Intel CPU, so you can't really complain seeing you support the company. I can't believe anyone would complain about what AMD is doing here when Intel has used exclusionary tactics to perfection and became a virtual monopoly doing it. Yet Intel is highly praised for their products and market dominance, while AMD is ridiculed for their lack of CPU performance. Well apparently you don't become the dominant player by playing nice.

I hate these types of practices, but let's not pretend AMD is trying to go down a path that has not been well traveled by the current market leaders.

 

[cmdrdredd]

They are essentially united this generation. Mantle brings them another step closer.

When The new Xbox is using DX11.2 directly, they don't even need mantle crap to port games.

 

[GaiaHunter]

console is not PC.

With AMD APUs in there you could fool me.

 

[DiogoDX]

Mantle = Glide?

I realy hope not.:thumbsdown:

 

[OCGuy]

They are essentially united this generation. Mantle brings them another step closer.

100% of consoles will have AMD processors.

What % of PCs have AMD processors?


"United" is probably not the right word.

 

[GaiaHunter]

When The new Xbox is using DX11.2 directly, they don't even need mantle crap to port games.

They do have to develop for PS4 as well.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Did they even say what % of performance increase they expect if this mantle thing is used?

 

[GaiaHunter]

100% of consoles will have AMD processors.

What % of PCs have AMD processors?


"United" is probably not the right word.

The metric you are looking for is how many gaming PCs+new gen consoles will run GCN.

 

[AnandThenMan]

they didnt mention anything about cpus in the presentation, so I am guessing no.

Sure they did.

 

[cmdrdredd]

They do have to develop for PS4 as well.

Don't have to...unless they want to release multiplatform. I hear Sony's API is very simple and very powerful, actually ahead of MS's Xbox One software right now though.

 

[blackened23]

Holy bejebus at this thread. And here I was thinking that absolutely nothing interesting would come from this event - I tuned out after 1 minute of hearing Raja the ROBOT talking.

That said, developers aren't going to exclude over half of their player base for PC games, that isn't happening. So I don't think the doom and gloom posts over Mantle are warranted; we don't even know what net benefit it can provide (if any).

I'm much more interested in knowing how the card performs - the leaks obviously indicated performance rivaling the titan with less power consumption. I just want to see if that can be substantiated, but apparently we have to wait for real reviews. When is that happening, by the way? Do we know yet?

 

[Bubbleawsome]

I find it very interesting, but at the same time anti competitive and anti consumer.

I think it's eery how similar to Intel this is, only on a whole new level of control.

Given how receptive the AMD fan base is to this, I'm expecting the world to implode from a massive overload of irony.

The way I see it as is a might as well thing. I'm poor so I go amd anyway and if they are gonna be console anyways they might as well. Then once nvida or whoever take console next comes in the game industry will be screwed up for a while (2 years maybe) and it will continue on. Or amd will keep it and we will finally get that amd graphics Intel CPU overlord thing and there will be no competition and eventually PC will die, replaced by mobile.

In a 100% non sarcastic tone (that was 50/50) I think it will be great for a few years, with nvida being powerful enough to be equal to amds weaker cards, but amd having this deal going on. With mantle it seems like nvidia would need to fully unlock gk110 to compete with the 7970ghz. Competition possibilities. Nvidia has been holding back on it's you because amd is no threat, I mean, gk110 was ready for a full release against the 7970, even now, it's slaughtered by a locked gk110. Imagine a full maxwell110 for ~$700.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

When The new Xbox is using DX11.2 directly, they don't even need mantle crap to port games.

Has there been any news stating devs are required to use dx11.2?

100% of consoles will have AMD processors.

What % of PCs have AMD processors?


"United" is probably not the right word.

I didn't see anything about this being locked to a certain CPU. It is more about direct programming for GPUs.

 

[AnandThenMan]

I just want to see if that can be substantiated, but apparently we have to wait for real reviews. When is that happening, by the way? Do we know yet?

From what I've read, this info is under NDA.

 

[tential]

Did they even say what % of performance increase they expect if this mantle thing is used?

9x draw calls performance boost.
Whatever that means but of course people are leaving out the word "draw calls" so they can simplify it for the average person which of course actually completely misconstrues the meaning.

http://n4g.com/news/1362096/amd-and...r-radeon-cards-offering-9x-better-performance

DICE’s Johan Andersson revealed today that AMD and DICE are working on a low-level high-performance graphics API for Radeon cards, called Mantle. According to AMD, Mantle offers up to 9X more draw calls per second than other APIs by reducing CPU overhead. This is crucial as according to Johan, this API will be able to finally offer PC gamers proper multi-tasking scaling on the CPU without the need to handle all the background draw calls that the original, old model, requires.

Johan described this API similar to the one found on consoles where programmers are able to code to the metal. Moreover, Mantle enables higher graphics performance with direct access to all GPU features and brings some new rendering techniques (which AMD will most probably reveal at the AMD Developer Summit in November 11-14, 2013 in San Jose).

Mantle is compatible with DirextX HLSL for simplified porting, will works with all GCN GPUs, and Battlefield 4 will be the first game supporting it.

As Johan noted, this API will be introduced to the game via an update, meaning that the game won’t ship with Mantle. This is really interesting as AMD owners will be able to witness the performance difference that this API aims to bring.

Johan did not clarify whether Mantle will support Nvidia’s cards. If this API remains exclusive to AMD, then it will be 3DFX all over again (with its GLIDE API). Not only that, but AMD will be able to ‘convince’ developers to use it as its GPUs are already powering both of the next-gen consoles. And if Mantle actually does offer 9X better performance than the older APIs, then we’re pretty sure that AMD has already won the next GPU battle.

Enjoy!

Happy to have an AMD card now if BF4 really will get a boost from this. Woohoo!?

 

[OCGuy]

Holy bejebus at this thread. And here I was thinking that absolutely nothing interesting would come from this event - I tuned out after 1 minute of hearing Raja the ROBOT talking.

That said, developers aren't going to exclude over half of their player base for PC games, that isn't happening. So I don't think the doom and gloom posts over Mantle are warranted; we don't even know what net benefit it can provide (if any).

I'm much more interested in knowing how the card performs - the leaks obviously indicated performance rivaling the titan with less power consumption. I just want to see if that can be substantiated, but apparently we have to wait for real reviews. When is that happening, by the way? Do we know yet?

The lack of discussion regarding the new hardware as well as the pricing are pretty good signs as to where it will end up relative to current offerings.

 

[EightySix Four]

Don't have to...unless they want to release multiplatform. I hear Sony's API is very simple and very powerful, actually ahead of MS's Xbox One software right now though.

I'd like to know which devs said that, it would be shocking if Sony's tools caught up to Microsoft's in one generation.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

You own an Intel CPU, so you can't really complain seeing you support the company. I can't believe anyone would complain about what AMD is doing here when Intel has used exclusionary tactics to perfection and became a virtual monopoly doing it. Yet Intel is highly praised for their products and market dominance, while AMD is ridiculed for their lack of CPU performance. Well apparently you don't become the dominant player by playing nice.

I hate these types of practices, but let's not pretend AMD is trying to go down a path that has not been well traveled by the current market leaders.

I can do most things I want, including pointing out the hypocrisy of people who support this but spend their time in other threads complaining about Intel compilers and PhysX.

I just can't name names, but everyone already knows who they are anyways.

 

[AnandThenMan]

I can do most things I want, including pointing out the hypocrisy of people who support this but spend their time in other threads complaining about Intel compilers and PhysX.

I just can't name names, but everyone already knows who they are anyways.

Can you give me an example by quoting?

 

[cmdrdredd]

Has there been any news stating devs are required to use dx11.2?

DX11.2 is directly optimized for the Xbox One. It is the API the system uses. If you make a game for the Xbox One it's using DX11+

9x draw calls performance boost.
Whatever that means but of course people are leaving out the word "draw calls" so they can simplify it for the average person which of course actually completely misconstrues the meaning.

http://n4g.com/news/1362096/amd-and...r-radeon-cards-offering-9x-better-performance

Happy to have an AMD card now if BF4 really will get a boost from this. Woohoo!?

So...that could mean anything. Might not be significant at all.

I'd like to know which devs said that, it would be shocking if Sony's tools caught up to Microsoft's in one generation.

They never said, I assume because whoever did say that asked not to be identified. They don't want to piss off MS. Supposedly Sony was working with developers all the way from beginning to end with PS4 development. They wanted the software and hardware to be catered so devs can make great content and it was a good experience for gamers too. They even sent out numerous controller prototypes to FPS developers to get their input on the design of it.

So, it seems like they did it right on paper.



On the whole Mantle thing, AMD has to get their drivers right with this. It doesn't matter what supposed benefit you can get if they don't make it work. I'm not too worried about any changes to how games function in Windows or on Nvidia hardware.

 

[cmdrdredd]

double

 

[GaiaHunter]

DX11.2 is directly optimized for the Xbox One. It is the API the system uses. If you make a game for the Xbox One it's using DX11+

Maybe that is why you heard the PS4 API is currently better.

But regardless of using DX11.2 or not, don't expect it to be just like the the DX11.2 you see on the PCs - it will be much more akin to mantle.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Can you give me an example by quoting?

No, that would be a member call out which is not allowed per the ToS.


I have a GCN GPU, I wasn't going to purchase BF4 though - at least not until it goes bargain bin in the hopes you spend $70 more after paying $10 for the game to pick up the DLC.

That said I will watch how this plays out with great interest, there could be a flip side to this, where it spawns an open version that is supported directly by both AMD and Nvidia to increase the overall performance of ALL PC users.

That is the only positive I can see from this, admittedly, it has massive potential. But I don't want to get ahead of myself, could be mostly multithreading for the jaguar cpu and bulldozer/piledriver and of very little benefit to the GPUs actual performance.

Another possible, wait didn't I just say there was only one? Erm, well anyways, another possible outcome is Microsoft revising DX, long shot, but certainly possible with the looming threat of Linux/Steam and now this... Maybe M$ will wake the BLEEP up.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Maybe that is why you heard the PS4 API is currently better.

But regardless of using DX11.2 or not, don't expect it to be just like the the DX11.2 you see on the PCs - it will be much more akin to mantle.

It was specifically recoded for the XBox One at the hardware level. From what I understand they went deep into the code and made sure that the DX11 on the Xbox is optimized directly. Certain devs alluded to the fact that Sony has better software support for developers at the present time and the tools are closer to being release quality.

Kind of off topic but related to APIs etc.

 

[imaheadcase]

Nothing exciting, further alienating users with exclusive stuff, better performance in BF4 (will wait for benchmarks naturally).

We really need see the benchmarks, but it does not look impressive.

The audio was the worst part, why are companies trying to reinvent audio in 2013. They even mention how it reduces cpu, well that does not matter anymore. lol