amd fx cpus were future proof...

[PC Master Race]

Intel Core i5 has better single thread performance......but the AMD FX eight core has better multithread.

Even still with AMD FX 8 core 8 modules going full bore they are still behind the performance of Intels true cores. It's still all about IPC and per core performance.

 

[SPBHM]

You seem to ignore the fact that Intel still offers better performance. If you ran and Intel proc under mantle in place of the AMD APU LOL you would be well north of 60fps average framerate. Just because you need a buffer to make AMD APUs and CPUs run a bit better does not make up for the fact that IPC and per core performance are a flop on AMD CPUs and APUs.

I already answered my reasons for believing it helps AMD more but once again.
the higher CPU performance is not important once the game is limited by something else, as I said, with lower CPU overhead you are more likely to hit the GPU limit and have a slower CPU delivering the same experience as faster CPUs, also DX12 is going to allow games to better utilize the 8 threads from any CPU and be less limited by single thread performance in any CPU, it's just that at some point the extra CPU performance is not going to translate to better framerates simply because you are no longer CPU limited....

"What makes Direct3D 12 better? First and foremost, it provides a lower level of hardware abstraction than ever before, allowing games to significantly improve multithread scaling and CPU utilization. "
DX11
DX12

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/03/20/directx-12.aspx

and from Anandtech

it should be the same story (or even better) for 8350 vs i5

as you can see the lower overhead API is limited by the GPU and all CPUs look the same, while in DX11 the CPU performance advantage (specially the higher single thread performance) translates to a big frame rate advantage.


this opens the door for game devs to be more aggressive with what they do with their games, making it possible that the CPU performance differences would be relevant again, but this is for the longer term, since games are being made also for PS4 (less than half an 8350), and it would probably mean some significant changes in game design, it should take a while

 

[PC Master Race]

I already answered my reasons for believing it helps AMD more but once again.

Optimizing for a slower tech will not mitigate the fact that the tech is slow.

 

[frozentundra123456]

One can look at mantle benchmarks as an indication on DX12 performance. For instance in the game.gpu test of thief, mantle increased performance of 4670k about 20 percent while it increased 8350 about 40 percent, but the 4670k was still ahead. This seems a good indication of what will happen. I dont believe all the hype that mantle/dx12 will suddenly put amd in the lead, but undoubtedly will make them more competitive.

Unfortunately for amd, intel will soon have skylake out, and could be close to 10nm before DX12 is commonplace. The best thing that could happen is that dx12 would force intel to bring out a mainstream hex core. They certainly will have the transistor budget at 14nm, but they only seem intetested on spending it on the igp.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Optimizing for a slower tech will not mitigate the fact that the tech is slow.

DX12 seems to optimize for . . . everything. And an increase is an increase, you'd be crazy to try to be negative about that.

The best thing that could happen is that dx12 would force intel to bring out a mainstream hex core.

Would it? What if DX12 starts enabling developers to use iGPUs for compute in tandem with dGPUs in games? Intel would probably get its best performance out of Iris Pro quads.

 

[AtenRa]

In this particular case, mantle allowed FX 6300 to reach similar performance to 3770k because the game became gpu limited. With more powerful gpus or in a different game, the results would be different. Not to mention that by the time DX 12 becomes mainstream we will be on Skylake and nearing 10nm for intel, while AMD will still be soldiering on with basically the same chips. So we will have to wait and see, but one cherry picked example certainly does not prove that AMD will catch up to intel in gaming performance.

The game is not GPU limited in DX-11 at High Settings. The Core i7 3770K gained both minimum and Avg fps using Mantle.

The FX6300 reach Core i7 3770K DX-11 performance and the GPU is able to output more fps. The game is still CPU bound with the FX6300 using Mantle at those Settings(High).

Situation changes at Max settings. Here we are GPU limited.

 

[biostud]

Once DX12 gains traction, hopefully the developers will use the freed CPU power to better AI/physics etc. without dropping frame rates, still making a powerful CPU useful.

 

[erunion]

DX12 seems to optimize for . . . everything. And an increase is an increase, you'd be crazy to try to be negative about that.

That's what so odd about this thread. Dx12 is going to bring improvements across the board. It should breathe some life into older chips and budget chips.

Yet, of all the things to discuss about dx12, here we are rehashing a 3 year old AMD vs Intel debate. But maybe some people will use any excuse.

unrelated,I'd like to see some test with a dual core Pentium. We might see budget rigs become more quite a bit more capable soon.

 

[biostud]

That's what so odd about this thread. Dx12 is going to bring improvements across the board. It should breathe some life into older chips and budget chips.

Yet, of all the things to discuss about dx12, here we are rehashing a 3 year old AMD vs Intel debate. But maybe some people will use any excuse.

unrelated,I'd like to see some test with a dual core Pentium. We might see budget rigs become more quite a bit more capable soon.

Yeah really looking forward to DX12, looks like it is a giant leap in performance. I'm also looking forward to what developers will use the CPU power for.

 

[parvadomus]

With current architectures DX12 will obviously benefit more AMD processors. If you have a threaded code that has to wait for a heavy thread (in DX11 that thread that process all kernel crap in the image) but you suddenly eliminate or reduce it to only a few ms, you end with a code that is fully parallelizable across X cores, you wont need to have massive IPC, you can simply have more cores.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Remember game logic doesnt scale well. And DX12, Libgcm, Mantle etc fixes nothing in that regards. I dont know where people get the silly notion that DX12 fixes everything relating to multithreading in games.

Its also clear from the statement from MS, that DX12 isnt going to change much, if any on consoles. Something that is haunted by its weak CPUs.

 

[titanicdave]

I think that anything that gives a FREE performance increase can never be a bad thing. I'm looking forward to how things actually work in a real-world scenario. Will Intel still be faster? Of course, but if DX12 does actually give the large performance increases that it can, then EVERYBODY should be happy.
Of course the other point you could make is that if the difference between the top and bottom Intel chips is reduced to a couple of frames per second, then only frame junkies would be buying the top Intel chips, never mind any AMD offerings. And that is good for consumers but bad for innovation.

 

[frozentundra123456]

The game is not GPU limited in DX-11 at High Settings. The Core i7 3770K gained both minimum and Avg fps using Mantle.

The FX6300 reach Core i7 3770K DX-11 performance and the GPU is able to output more fps. The game is still CPU bound with the FX6300 using Mantle at those Settings(High).

Situation changes at Max settings. Here we are GPU limited.

What i meant to say is that under mantle, i suspect the game is gpu limited or approaching it with the 3770k. The 3770k under dx and the 6300 under both apis is gpu limited, i agree.

 

[Gikaseixas]

I dont believe all the hype that mantle/dx12 will suddenly put amd in the lead

I'm curious. Who said this?
What's being said here is that AMD might get closer, not beat Intel... thus making it a bit more competitive.

 

[parvadomus]

Remember game logic doesnt scale well

proof?

Game logic is very paralellizable, from physics to AI. The parts that are not, are very light and every CPU runs them with ease.
BF series are good examples.

 

[parvadomus]

This is a perfect example of what happens with Mantle/DX12. Even a core 2 quad kills a pentium G with the workload being spreaded over all cores.
The more parallel game engines become, the more AMD will benefit, and I assume they will as they are in constant development.

 

[ShintaiDK]

proof?

Game logic is very paralellizable, from physics to AI. The parts that are not, are very light and every CPU runs them with ease.
BF series are good examples.

Do your really think BF4 is a good example?

 

[Gikaseixas]

Its also clear from the statement from MS, that DX12 isnt going to change much, if any on consoles. Something that is haunted by its weak CPUs

I bet Xbox 1 will benefit from DX12 as the API shares the same close to metal fundamentals. Those weak cpus where the best MS and Sony could have at the time for what they designed so give up already. I know you're upset that your prediction was wrong when you said no AMD APUs would be in this generation consoles

 

[ShintaiDK]

I bet Xbox 1 will benefit from DX12 as the API shares the same close to metal fundamentals. Those weak cpus where the best MS and Sony could have at the time for what they designed so give up already. I know you're upset that your prediction was wrong when you said no AMD APUs would be in this generation consoles

Its weak CPUs nomatter how personal you try and make it. And we see it on consoles and console ports. Not to mention the huge penalty going above 4 threads due to the way the 2 clustes are bolted together. (190cycles.)

And your statement contradict MS.
http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/1...not-to-expect-dramatic-improvements-from-dx12

 

[Gikaseixas]

Do your really think BF4 is a good example?

The weakest FX cpu in that test has a minimum of 67fps, not enough for you? So every CPU in that chart does run BF with ease as he correctly put it. Thanks for the confirmation

 

[ShintaiDK]

The weakest FX cpu in that test has a minimum of 67fps, not enough for you? So every CPU in that chart does run BF with ease as he correctly put it. Thanks for the confirmation

You unsurprisingly missed the context again.

 

[PC Master Race]

The weakest FX cpu in that test has a minimum of 67fps, not enough for you? So every CPU in that chart does run BF with ease as he correctly put it. Thanks for the confirmation

That's not quite accurate information. For online gameplay ... BF4 included the FX CPUs have frame drops and inconsistent frame rates over time.

 

[monstercameron]

That's not quite accurate information. For online gameplay ... BF4 included the FX CPUs have frame drops and inconsistent frame rates over time.

source/link please else quit misleading people.

 

[Gikaseixas]

Its weak CPUs nomatter how personal you try and make it. And we see it on consoles and console ports. Not to mention the huge penalty going above 4 threads due to the way the 2 clustes are bolted together. (190cycles.)

And your statement contradict MS.
http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/1...not-to-expect-dramatic-improvements-from-dx12

You're the one who makes every AMD thread personal by spreading in them your negativity all the time buddy. The dedication is amazing

That article is just Phil Spencer saying that DX12 will not offer much in terms of performance increases but it will for sure. It will be be dependant on game engines and how devs will be able to take advantage of the added opportunities

 

[Gikaseixas]

That's not quite accurate information. For online gameplay ... BF4 included the FX CPUs have frame drops and inconsistent frame rates over time.

Just going by the chart he posted. FX4100 does has a minimum of 67fps there. He's trying to prove someone wrong but in fact what he did was to prove him right because every cpu in that chart runs that game very well. Check the post again please