AMD FX-8120P benchmark from Coolaler

[nonameo]

Are laptops officially not in the mobile market, though? If not, the only group they can fall into from the remaining two is desktops, and they're clearly not that...

how about, portable

 

[exar333]

Llano really doesnt have that high a power consumption. AMD just dumped the chip on the market without making any attempt to bin for lower voltage.

There is no reason to believe AMD couldnt bring a K10 style Athlon X8 @ 2.6GHz and 1.2VID (95W TDP) at yields good enough to sell them for $150 apiece in less than 6 months. It would be no bigger than thuban, and die harvested parts could sell as faster quads and hexes. They could easily have made a 1035T replacement that cost no extra money for 2 extra cores. They could have easily done this 6 months ago, yet chose not to, in favor of a design that would... perform worse and sell less and make less money and yet cost more to produce? Yeah right.

A year from now even the release stepping BD will outscore an 1100T in cinebench by at least 40% clock for clock. Bookmark this if you dont believe me.

Are you for real?

A 8-core X8 at 95W!!?? The current 6-core is 125W! What will this be clocked at, 1800mhz? Absurd.

 

[busydude]

A 8-core X8 at 95W!!??

Umm AFAIK.. 8120P is going to be launched at both 95W and 125W.

 

[exar333]

Umm AFAIK.. 8120P is going to be launched at both 95W and 125W.

Read the post. K10 <> BD *hint*

 

[busydude]

Read the post. K10 <> BD *hint*

Ahh.. missed the context I see.

 

[drizek]

Are laptops officially not in the mobile market, though? If not, the only group they can fall into from the remaining two is desktops, and they're clearly not that...

Yes, you can say portable as someone else suggested.

I think the two categories though are "PCs" and "Mobile".

Or, if you want 3 categories

"productivity devices" - desktops and laptops
"Consumption devices" - tablets and e-readers
"Communication devices" - phones

In the current climate, it really doesn't make sense to differentiatie between a desktop and a laptop. The laptop is the primary PC for most people. A desktop is just a laptop that doesn't move.

AMD and Intel might refer to laptops as "mobile", but that's only because they don't realize what decade they're in.

Edit: Officially, from AMDs POV, yes I do think they refer to laptops as mobile. Afterall, the only things they sell that are more mobile than Brazos are keychains, and I don't think those would generate that kind of revenue.

 

[Despoiler]

You made a comment that profit margins are too small in some of the fastest growing sectors. So according to you, it makes no sense for AMD to enter those markets. We'll see when NV's Tegra continues to make inroads in this market while AMD continues to be left behind. NV's Tegra is a Top 5 Player in the Smartphone Market. With better Tegra products, they have the potential to grow this revenue stream 10x. AMD on the other hand, well they has done nothing to grow their business in the last 5 years. In fact, in the last 10 years the stock's return is negative 38&#37; vs. positive 23% for NV (either way both are horrible in the context of a 10 year period).

Still, until AMD starts taking the very lucrative mobile space seriously, their only hope is to start making some better server/laptop/desktop processors, which they have failed to do in the last 5 years.

Considering AMD has been unable to design a better or a more power efficient processor than Intel in the last 5 years, it's no wonder that Dirk came up with excuses for why AMD should not to enter the tablet / smartphone space = AMD simply doesn't have the financial R&D resources or the technical expertise to be successful in this segment at the moment (esp. not when their bread and butter PC chips are being delayed left right and center). It would take them 3-4 years before they can bring something competitive to this market. Looks like Dirk wasn't interested. That's not the same as saying you can't make a crap load of $ in smartphone and tablet space.

You made a silly statement about Apple's final product profit margins when we are talking about smartphone silicon. You are still saying that somehow razor thin profit margins is lucrative, which is nonsense. Nvidia made $122 million on Tegra 2 this last year. Not exactly a crap load of money. Your last paragraph is basically what I am saying and so you end up contradicting yourself.

It makes zero sense at this point for AMD to further sap their resources an a product(smartphones) that may take 5-10 years to come to fruition. Businesses don't enter markets that are highly competitive, I'd argue getting saturated, with razor thin profit margins. You have to be able to soak 5 years of investment. That sector is all about volume shipments. I doubt AMD just can do that right now and couldn't 5 years ago either with the ATI acquisition. Granted now with ATI they have something to offer. They can compete with Nvidia in graphics. They are getting into the tablet market soon.

AMD shed about 20% of their server chip business to Intel since Q2 2006. Do you spend a bunch of money to develop something that has a ROI well down the road and could bomb entirely? Do you put your focus on a market where there are 2 players, the biggest of which has 95% of the market and you being the other? A market that has really healthy profit margins and you can make gains in revenue w/o having to shoot the moon with volume shipments. It's an easy business choice to me. It is conservative yes and that is why Dirk is out. The AMD board wants something more aggressive and expansive. Maybe Dirk should have been as ballsy with his business plan as he was with the ATI acquisition.

 

[wlee15]

Nvidia actually has loss $181 million over the past 8 fiscal years in their CPB division and $70 million over the last 2 quarters. nVidia may be a top 5 smartphone SOC maker but that's not nearly as impressive when you consider that the top 3 makers control about 90&#37; of the market.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Dirk wasn't responsible for the ATI acquision. That was Ruiz.

 

[StrangerGuy]

how about, portable

When the slowest Intel moblie quad SB is more expensive than a 2600K this should be obvious where Intel makes the most money out from. If AMD is already hopelessly outclassed at the desktop side, they are non-existant in the mobile market outside netbooks.

 

[dezz]

No its half as powerful. One BD module now shares what a Phenom II core had to itself.

See diagram on this page

I don't know how it has gone unnoticed for this long, but the diagram for the Phenom II is wrong there! The FPU part is apparently a copy&paste from the Bulldozer diagram, but it shouldn't be. For one, the K10 uarch don't have FMACs, it's a brand new feature of the Bulldozer (hence it can do FMA). In case of Phenom II, there is an FADD and an FMUL, instead of two FMACs. For two, there are no separate pipes for integer and FP SIMD execution in K10, like in Bulldozer, where those can be utilized at the same time. There are other differences, as well.

An FMAC consists of an FADD and an FMUL... So, an 4-core K10 and a 4-module Bulldozer has the same amount of FADDs and FMULs -- at a higher clockrate.

If you don't believe me, see here:
http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cfm?ArticleID=RWT082610181333&p=7
(Or look after in the respective Opt. Guides.)

 

[Phynaz]

Umm you realize we are talking about chip manufacturing right? Apple makes ZERO hardware. Samsung provides the chips for the iPhone and the iPad.

AMD makes ZERO hardware. Global Foundries provides the chips they sell.

 

[Despoiler]

AMD makes ZERO hardware. Global Foundries provides the chips they sell.

Makes/design. Anyone should be able to read into that one. Apple also doesn't design 99&#37; of their hardware either. They use off the shelf parts. Apple is primarily a marketing company.

 

[Despoiler]

Dirk wasn't responsible for the ATI acquision. That was Ruiz.

I even searched for that and managed to find an top hit article that said it was Dirk. My bad. I think my point still stands. Dirk was left with no wiggle room as the acquisition nearly buried AMD.

AMD makes ZERO hardware. Global Foundries provides the chips they sell.

Makes/design. Anyone should be able to read into that one. Apple also doesn't design 99&#37; of their hardware either. They use off the shelf parts. Apple is primarily a marketing company.

 

[RussianSensation]

Makes/design. Anyone should be able to read into that one. Apple also doesn't design 99&#37; of their hardware either. They use off the shelf parts. Apple is primarily a marketing company.

You realize Apple dictates the design of pretty much ALL of the parts so that they can be integrated to fit their specific requirements for weight, battery life and form factor? The MacBook Air's motherboard is completely custom made based on Apple's design. The SSD is custom made. Apple's engineers work to ensure the design is how they want it. Even Intel's chip's TDP has been sighted as influenced by Apple's design requirements. So to say that Apple uses "off the shelf" parts is similar to saying that a Ford Focus's tire and a Ferrari F458's tire both use "off the shelf" rubber.

You made a silly statement about Apple's final product profit margins when we are talking about smartphone silicon. You are still saying that somehow razor thin profit margins is lucrative, which is nonsense. It makes zero sense at this point for AMD to further sap their resources an a product(smartphones) that may take 5-10 years to come to fruition.

Just because AMD cannot afford to compete in this segment due to lack of investment funds, it doesn't mean that the sector is not profitable. Otherwise Qualcomm, ARM, Texas Instruments wouldn't exist.

 

[Phynaz]

Makes/design. Anyone should be able to read into that one. Apple also doesn't design 99&#37; of their hardware either. They use off the shelf parts. Apple is primarily a marketing company.

Apple designs their own CPU's. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PA_Semi

 

[AtenRa]

I don't know how it has gone unnoticed for this long, but the diagram for the Phenom II is wrong there! The FPU part is apparently a copy&paste from the Bulldozer diagram, but it shouldn't be. For one, the K10 uarch don't have FMACs, it's a brand new feature of the Bulldozer (hence it can do FMA). In case of Phenom II, there is an FADD and an FMUL, instead of two FMACs. For two, there are no separate pipes for integer and FP SIMD execution in K10, like in Bulldozer, where those can be utilized at the same time. There are other differences, as well.

An FMAC consists of an FADD and an FMUL... So, an 4-core K10 and a 4-module Bulldozer has the same amount of FADDs and FMULs -- at a higher clockrate.

If you don't believe me, see here:
http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cfm?ArticleID=RWT082610181333&p=7
(Or look after in the respective Opt. Guides.)

Yes, i believe those pics are only for reference purposes and to show BD architecture but now i see them again they do more damage than good

Phenom II dont have dual Schedulers in the Integer Execution and no FMACs in FP. There are more mistakes, but that article was more than 12 month ago

 

[Despoiler]

You realize Apple dictates the design of pretty much ALL of the parts so that they can be integrated to fit their specific requirements for weight, battery life and form factor? The MacBook Air's motherboard is completely custom made based on Apple's design. The SSD is custom made. Apple's engineers work to ensure the design is how they want it. Even Intel's chip's TDP has been sighted as influenced by Apple's design requirements. So to say that Apple uses "off the shelf" parts is similar to saying that a Ford Focus's tire and a Ferrari F458's tire both use "off the shelf" rubber.

Telling an OEM I need X part with X specs is not designing the part. Maybe I should have been even more specific and said engineer. Every single Apple hardware product was built for several generations using nothing more than straight off the shelf. They have iterated the design with in house engineers yes. The only part that I am aware that Apple actually engineered top to bottom in house was the 3rd gen(gen might be wrong) iPod jog wheel. All previous wheels were off the shelf and sourced from a company that they dropped after the redesign. The redesign, which by the way was basically a simplified copy of the OEM design. Not exactly awe inspiring work. I maintain that Apple is primarily a marketing company.

 

[bryanW1995]

Can you guys please not get so depressed please? You are depressing me as well, lol.

This is AMD playing as. Haven't you learned anything from past years?

The benchmarks may very well be real. This is not final hardware. JF warned us about all this. At the very least, wait for the launch day to get disappointed!

We did wait for the launch day. Then the next one. Then the next one. etc etc. We've finally gotten tired of waiting, and there is a mounting pile of evidence that says "BD SUCKS". I've been an AMD cpu fan for years, I've owned more AMD than intel since my original pentium 166, and I've been waiting 5 years for BD to come out and bring AMD back to respectability, but, sadly, that appears to have been a false hope. I guess the good news is that I don't have to upgrade all my cpus now, however.

 

[bryanW1995]

Who's the engineer in charge if this abomination?

I really hope these result are fake because if you can't beat your competitor there's only one thing left to do.

Yes, he needs to get Ken Watanabe to help him commit ritual suicide.

 

[dezz]

Telling an OEM I need X part with X specs is not designing the part. Maybe I should have been even more specific and said engineer. Every single Apple hardware product was built for several generations using nothing more than straight off the shelf. They have iterated the design with in house engineers yes. The only part that I am aware that Apple actually engineered top to bottom in house was the 3rd gen(gen might be wrong) iPod jog wheel. All previous wheels were off the shelf and sourced from a company that they dropped after the redesign. The redesign, which by the way was basically a simplified copy of the OEM design. Not exactly awe inspiring work. I maintain that Apple is primarily a marketing company.

AFAIK Apple still uses some chips of their own design. Most probably they design the PCBs themself. Not mentioning the casing.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Whilst his methods are unconventional, clearly OBR is deeply committed to TRUTH and his character assessments to date have been spot on.

This was the best of the best at work here . Well done! Also to the point.

 

[Hacp]

AMD makes ZERO hardware. Global Foundries provides the chips they sell.

AMD owns 49% of GF I believe.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Na they might own a little but not much

 

[MegaWorks]

We did wait for the launch day. Then the next one. Then the next one. etc etc. We've finally gotten tired of waiting, and there is a mounting pile of evidence that says "BD SUCKS". I've been an AMD cpu fan for years, I've owned more AMD than intel since my original pentium 166, and I've been waiting 5 years for BD to come out and bring AMD back to respectability, but, sadly, that appears to have been a false hope. I guess the good news is that I don't have to upgrade all my cpus now, however.

We're on the same boat. :humpsup: and Ken Watanabe should be in charge of AMD.