AMD financials / ATi sales numbers

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Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
i have heard you start having problems at a molecular level between 3 and 5nm.

but theres always materials engineering, new transistor designs, efficiency improvements, etc...

The semiconductor industry still has a good 25 years minimum.
 
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Dark Shroud

Golden Member
Mar 26, 2010
1,576
1
0
SHAQ said:
Not really. Where are the 10Ghz CPU's that Intel was supposed to produce? It will be very difficult to get to 20nm and beyond. I don't believe we will see more than two die shrinks in the next five years for CPU/GPU.
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Intel can make 10Ghz CPUs right now if they wanted to. The problem is cooling them, it won't work in a home PC or portable device. Which is why both Intel & AMD now make multi-core CPUs.

Instead of trying to do one task very quickly to move onto the next task you can now do many tasks at once. In addition the chips are becoming more & more efficient with more on die instruction sets as well, see AES on the Core i7 980X.
 
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jiffylube1024

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
7,430
0
71
Dark Shroud said:
Intel can make 10Ghz CPUs right now if they wanted to. The problem is cooling them, it won't work in a home PC or portable device. Which is why both Intel & AMD now make multi-core CPUs.

Instead of trying to do one task very quickly to move onto the next task you can now do many tasks at once. In addition the chips are becoming more & more efficient with more on die instruction sets as well, see AES on the Core i7 980X.
Click to expand...

I'd say the bigger problem is power consumption. If you're going to push current technology to 10 GHz, it's going to be with lots of extra voltage and power usage. Cooling is a byproduct of the extra power.
 
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tincart

Senior member
Apr 15, 2010
630
1
0
happy medium said:
Seems theres no gpu delay but they are having supply problems? Mabe thats why they are not lowering prices?
Mabe Nvidia is taking all the 40nm production? I remember reading a thread on that.
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Reading comprehension test!

If the quote says they expect supply constraints to ease instead of remaining the same or getting worse, does that suggest to you that they think:

A) Production will increase
B) Production will remain the same
C) Production will decrease
 
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v8envy

Platinum Member
Sep 7, 2002
2,720
0
0
There are plenty of areas to increase transistor counts in roughly the same space. Stacking them on top of each other, for instance (3d lithography). Current leakage is a very recent public enemy #1, and you can bet your buns everyone and their dog is focused on figuring out how to not require Niagra Falls go through a metal sponge for transistors to fill with electrons.
 
bryanW1995

bryanW1995

Lifer
May 22, 2007
11,144
32
91
Acanthus said:
nvidia and intel hate each other.

see the chipset licensing wars and video IP wars.
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I disagree. I see it as JHH hating intel. Remember his "whoop-ass" comments? That was personal. He's bitter that they refused to give him the job he wanted when/if intel bought them out, and he has a chip on his shoulder to prove that they made a mistake. Hopefully it works out for nvidia, but intel is a very strong company.
 
bryanW1995

bryanW1995

Lifer
May 22, 2007
11,144
32
91
Originally Posted by bryanW1995
true, gpu's are different, but gf has never done gpu's before and they are having issues on their area of expertise. It is only natural to assume that gf's 32 nm cpu issues combined with tsmc's difficulties make it at least more likely that they will also have issues with their first gpus. Intel, otoh, doesn't seem to be having many problems right now at all other than how to say "67% gross margin" 10 times fast while drinking bottles of dom.
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sandorski said:
Does this mean you're switching to Intel GPUs? :eek::D
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I tried, but it took me 27 days to play through my dwarf noble origin so I went back to nvidia :)


Keysplayr said:
Smallness is infinite.
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I agree with the 25 year timetable. The industry is working right now on what will replace our current system, with the big players like intel and ibm able to throw the most money at the problem. What will we see? quantum computing? organics? something unheard of toda? who knows, but it will be interesting to find out.
 
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A

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
bryanW1995 said:
I disagree. I see it as JHH hating intel. Remember his "whoop-ass" comments? That was personal. He's bitter that they refused to give him the job he wanted when/if intel bought them out, and he has a chip on his shoulder to prove that they made a mistake. Hopefully it works out for nvidia, but intel is a very strong company.
Click to expand...

Intel has retaliated against Nvidia multiple times by revoking licensing to make chipsets for all Core iX products and all Atom products.

Nvidia has filed complaints with the department of justice for Intel enforcing a chipset monopoly through their virtual CPU monopoly.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/nv_ftc.html
 
R

rolodomo

Senior member
Mar 19, 2004
269
9
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Lonyo said:
2) The only way to flood the market with aggressive pricing would be at the cost of profit. AMD launched aggressively priced parts in many ways, and then RAISED prices because they obviously felt they could get away with it.
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This is the part I don't understand about the last half year. Wouldn't aggressive pricing in some cases increase demand and thus profit? The reason it didn't happen (I thought) was because the supply was constrained, so there was no point (they couldn't have increased supply to meet any increased demand). Instead, they raised prices.

I understand the point some commentators are making, that essentially AMD didn't have a choice but to rely on TMSC (with their strong NVIDIA relationship). But this is a forseeably bad situation to get drawn into though. When confronted with a golden opportunity (a long period where there were no competing DX11 products at any price level)....whoops...supply constraints. It is not snatching defeat from the jaw of victory, but more like snatching a "good result" from the jaws of total annihilating victory.
 
bryanW1995

bryanW1995

Lifer
May 22, 2007
11,144
32
91
Acanthus said:
Intel has retaliated against Nvidia multiple times by revoking licensing to make chipsets for all Core iX products and all Atom products.

Nvidia has filed complaints with the department of justice for Intel enforcing a chipset monopoly through their virtual CPU monopoly.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/nv_ftc.html
Click to expand...

oh, don't get me wrong, intel is definitely playing dirty, but don't they do that with everyone? I think that with jhh it is personal, but with most of intel and many nvidia employees it's just business.


rolodomo said:
This is the part I don't understand about the last half year. Wouldn't aggressive pricing in some cases increase demand and thus profit? The reason it didn't happen (I thought) was because the supply was constrained, so there was no point (they couldn't have increased supply to meet any increased demand). Instead, they raised prices.

I understand the point some commentators are making, that essentially AMD didn't have a choice but to rely on TMSC (with their strong NVIDIA relationship). But this is a forseeably bad situation to get drawn into though. When confronted with a golden opportunity (a long period where there were no competing DX11 products at any price level)....whoops...supply constraints. It is not snatching defeat from the jaw of victory, but more like snatching a "good result" from the jaws of total annihilating victory.
Click to expand...

Conspiracy theorists could certainly have a field day with this one. However, I think that's bunk. Nvidia is having a hell of a time with their 40nm process, and if anything the current problems favor amd's design over nvidia's. also, how much sooner could nvidia have come out with fermi if there had been greater supply? TSMC has a huge incentive to keep amd happy, amd is one of their biggest customers and they're being courted by a strong rival.

Nvidia, at least for now, doesn't really have a lot of options. They can switch to GF, which would be enormously worse than amd using tsmc. They can switch to intel (maybe), which is about as likely as a free democratic election in china week. They can look for somebody else with the capacity and expertise to help them (anyone out there?). Or, they can stick with tsmc for the forseeable future.
 
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Wreckage

Wreckage

Banned
Jul 1, 2005
5,529
0
0
Another losing quarter for AMD. I really don't know how much longer they can bleed like this. If not for selling off their foundries and suing Intel they might already be bankrupt.

With possibly Southern Islands not due till next year they could be in real trouble 3q/4q. Time will tell.

It's a real shame. I miss the days when the A64 was king.
 
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bryanW1995

bryanW1995

Lifer
May 22, 2007
11,144
32
91
their gpu division seems to be doing pretty well, and their long term outlook is now much more positive than it was a year or two ago.

besides, we all know that intel will f*** up again soon. amd and nvidia can keep suing them indefinitely at the rate intel is making money.
 
S

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,002
126
bryanW1995 said:
yeah, um, about that generational gap... did you hear that gf is having trouble with 32nm right now? yeah, um, it looks like intel is the only company in the world that has sorted that one out yet. tsmc can't even get 40nm figured out, who knows WHEN they'll jump down to 32/28. could nvidia end up using (gulp) intel for 32nm and beyond? What would happen to amd's process advantage if THAT happened? Honestly, I think that it's a good thing for all of us right now that jhh wouldn't let intel buy nvidia a few years ago. Well, good for everyone who's not a focus group member of course.
Click to expand...


With Nvidia trying to position GPU's against CPU's for a lot of tasks I doubt that Intel would want to partner with them. That would be quite the interesting combination, but I just don't see it happening.
 
Wreckage

Wreckage

Banned
Jul 1, 2005
5,529
0
0
bryanW1995 said:
their gpu division seems to be doing pretty well, and their long term outlook is now much more positive than it was a year or two ago.

besides, we all know that intel will f*** up again soon. amd and nvidia can keep suing them indefinitely at the rate intel is making money.
Click to expand...

I agree. I just got a phenom II system not that long ago. I was actually surprised they lost money again. Hopefully they pull a rabbit out of there hat for the upcoming holiday season. TSMC kind of spoiled their last Xmas.
 
bryanW1995

bryanW1995

Lifer
May 22, 2007
11,144
32
91
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evolucion8

evolucion8

Platinum Member
Jun 17, 2005
2,867
3
81
I heard that most of the loses are related to Global Foundries, is not known that if the loses are one time only or it will continue like that...
 
TuxDave

TuxDave

Lifer
Oct 8, 2002
10,571
3
71
bryanW1995 said:
go to 5 days and it's even more extreme. looks like intel posted results a couple days ago.
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uhh.. yeah Intel did. They posted the best Q2 earnings in the history of the company. But as you can see the price is back to where it was pre-earnings. Damn stock market.
 
B

Ben90

Platinum Member
Jun 14, 2009
2,866
3
0
Smallness is infinite
Click to expand...
Not really, but it would be totally sweet to have a 32PL Microprocessor
PL= Planck Length.

If PL isn't a term yet, I get copywrite dibs so everytime someone says it, I or my future relatives get $.25
 
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