AMD Files Antitrust Complaint Against Intel in U.S. Federal District Court

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Sixtyfour

Originally posted by: Auryg
One question to anyone smart enough to answer..is now a good time to buy AMD stock? They're publically traded, right?

I mean, if AMD wins, their business will probably go up tenfold.

AMD seems to be the best stock to buy in the IT industry, and it has been that for years...
But previously success hasn't materialised due to Intels actions, but if AMD has major win in court...
Who is going to stop AMD getting 50% of marketshare ?
Remember, when HP sold without limiting AMD took 60% in that quarter !!

But all stock investing has it risks..

Thumbs rule: if you buy keep for a long time and don't keep all the eggs in the same basket. 🙂

ps. this is BAD time to buy Intel, but i guess you figured that one by yourself.. 😀

I don't know anything about stock to feel comfortable giving advice but some professionals seems to think it's a good buy.

http://www.forbes.com/home_asia/markets/2005/06/28/0628automarketscan14.html

I've ALWAYS lost money with AMD 3x now.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: SwiftWind
Its not about who's chip is better. Its about who's breaking the rules.

Exactly.. and the contracts they signed with IBM and each other a long time ago.

Some of these guys seems to think cause you're bigger, faster, sell more and have more market cap or whatever laws/contracts don't apply anymore...

 

[clarkey01]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: SwiftWind
Its not about who's chip is better. Its about who's breaking the rules.

Exactly.. and the contracts they signed with IBM and each other a long time ago.

Some of these guys seems to think cause you're bigger, faster, sell more and have more market cap or whatever laws/contracts don't apply anymore...

Great to see you in the off topic Zebo :beer:

If forbes is right then 4 billion will go a long way in AMD land. Fabs, some debt paid off, add's, RnD, Hector's Enzo 😀

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: clarkey01

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: SwiftWind
Its not about who's chip is better. Its about who's breaking the rules.

Exactly.. and the contracts they signed with IBM and each other a long time ago.

Some of these guys seems to think cause you're bigger, faster, sell more and have more market cap or whatever laws/contracts don't apply anymore...

Great to see you in the off topic Zebo :beer:

If forbes is right then 4 billion will go a long way in AMD land. Fabs, some debt paid off, add's, RnD, Hector's Enzo 😀

4 billion could build them a new fab, and tool it. It would definately put AMD in a position to be a world market player.

 

[Kitrax]

This just goes to show that the only way AMD can beat Intel is to go cry to a judge and try and get Intel in trouble.

One more reason why I hate AMD.

 

[Maximilian]

Originally posted by: Kitrax
This just goes to show that the only way AMD can beat Intel is to go cry to a judge and try and get Intel in trouble.

One more reason why I hate AMD.

Amen brotha. Cept a dont hate amd.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Kitrax
This just goes to show that the only way AMD can beat Intel is to go cry to a judge and try and get Intel in trouble.

One more reason why I hate AMD.

I hate crimminals more and people who associate with them. Better hope Intel settles before FTC starts setting bail amounts for those felons you support.

 

[Maximilian]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Kitrax
This just goes to show that the only way AMD can beat Intel is to go cry to a judge and try and get Intel in trouble.

One more reason why I hate AMD.

I hate crimminals more and people who associate with them. Better hope Intel settles before FTC starts setting bail amounts for those felons you support.

Theyve not been proven felons yet. Therefore they are legitimate buisnessmen until proven otherwise.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Ok Soviet, OJ Simpson was innocent too...

Anyways, all AMD is asking for is a level playing field. After all, their product is better at the moment almost across the board, with the exception of the mobile market.

 

[Zebo]

Osama too. Nobodies proved he did anything. Just a preacher.:roll:

Did you see what anand said in his blog and read the USC I quoted about 15 posts ago?

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: Sixtyfour

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: Sixtyfour
but if AMD has major win in court...
Who is going to stop AMD getting 50% of marketshare ?

Their manufacturing capacity. Even with F36 ramping up next year, they still aren't close to being able to meet half of the world's demand.

Not true, AMD has currently capacity to at least 30%, there just is shortage for some top models.
After FAB36 AMD definetly has capacity for 50% or close to it, maybe even more.

Actually, it's quite true. I'm not sure if you're overestimating what a single 200mm fab can manufacture or if you're seriously underestimating the world's demand.

 

[Systxm]

yay for AMD!

 

[jonnyGURU]

I have and build systems from both manufacturers. In fact, I probably build more Intel because a lot of my customers are price oriented, Athlon XP's are few and far between and A64's are just too expensive.

I think it's funny that people are judging AMD on their "tactics" when they don't even understand the full scope of the suit.

If you don't know some of the companies that are "under Intel's thumb" the way I do, at least read the complaint.

I know quite a few companies that have told me point blank, "Yeah, we'd love to offer AMD solutions, but Intel won't let us." This is getting out more and more with AMD having the upperhand in A64 and dual-core CPU's and AMD is just sick of it. "Intel won't let us." Why should it be up to a company that has nothing to do with the corporate structure of Brand-X, no percetage of stock, no members on the board.... why is it up to THEM what solutions Brand X should offer? THAT'S what makes it anti-trust.

If Coke told 7-11 that they would no longer sell Coke product to 7-11 as long as 7-11 sold more than 40% Pepsi product, THAT would be the same kind of thing. It sounds ridiculous right? Coke's made out to be the ass, right? But 7-11 knows they can't continue selling ONLY Pepsi. Coke lovers will go to Circle-K! They cave in and make sure more than 60% of their product line is Coke. Ok.. That's fiction. But the same thing is happening with Intel and their customers.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU

I have and build systems from both manufacturers. In fact, I probably build more Intel because a lot of my customers are price oriented, Athlon XP's are few and far between and A64's are just too expensive.

I think it's funny that people are judging AMD on their "tactics" when they don't even understand the full scope of the suit.

If you don't know some of the companies that are "under Intel's thumb" the way I do, at least read the complaint.

I know quite a few companies that have told me point blank, "Yeah, we'd love to offer AMD solutions, but Intel won't let us." This is getting out more and more with AMD having the upperhand in A64 and dual-core CPU's and AMD is just sick of it. "Intel won't let us." Why should it be up to a company that has nothing to do with the corporate structure of Brand-X, no percetage of stock, no members on the board.... why is it up to THEM what solutions Brand X should offer? THAT'S what makes it anti-trust.

If Coke told 7-11 that they would no longer sell Coke product to 7-11 as long as 7-11 sold more than 40% Pepsi product, THAT would be the same kind of thing. It sounds ridiculous right? Coke's made out to be the ass, right? But 7-11 knows they can't continue selling ONLY Pepsi. Coke lovers will go to Circle-K! They cave in and make sure more than 60% of their product line is Coke. Ok.. That's fiction. But the same thing is happening with Intel and their customers.

Sometimes I wish AMD would go bankrupt just so these intel fans could feel 1991-1998 pricing again intel levied when they were undisputed king with virtually zero compitition. $500 to $1500 was normal with very wide margins between speed grades.. Not like now where you can get excellent performance from intel or AMD for less than $200 and top notch for $400.

I don't want intel to lose billions (unless they really did that amount of damage to AMD which is very hard to prove) but instead play by the rules/laws of the land and stop blackmailing AMD's customers (OEM's and mobo manufactures), they are sick of it too.

 

[clarkey01]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: Sixtyfour

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: Sixtyfour
but if AMD has major win in court...
Who is going to stop AMD getting 50% of marketshare ?

Their manufacturing capacity. Even with F36 ramping up next year, they still aren't close to being able to meet half of the world's demand.

Not true, AMD has currently capacity to at least 30%, there just is shortage for some top models.
After FAB36 AMD definetly has capacity for 50% or close to it, maybe even more.

Actually, it's quite true. I'm not sure if you're overestimating what a single 200mm fab can manufacture or if you're seriously underestimating the world's demand.

Nutz will know this but AMD tend to build bigger fabs then Intel, I hear FAB 30 is equel to about two Intel fabs.

 

[konakona]

I hope AMD wins, dishonest companies like Intel or Rambust need to be taught a lesson.
Acanthus seems to be on the right track with his analysis of northwood vs athlon XP timeline, at least thats how i remembered anand's benchmarks.
Soviet, werent the soviets ahead of the americans in rocketry with Sputnik? How the hell did they let americans beat them to the moon? oh sure, they must have been waiting patiently with their secret project up their sleeves to send a man to mars :roll: how do i know? cuz they were so far ahead of the game and with that much money spent on R&D, how could they possibly be caught up by the americans? impossible! also, care to explain how nvidia got totally dominated by r300 based cards when gf2 ultra had no match for a while? if there is one lesson history teaches you time and again, there is no supereme ruler who rules indefinitely. bigger companies like nvidia are more reslient to defeat, so they were able to stage a comeback with their 6x00 line of cards. yet you cannot help admitting they were once dethroned by ATi so thouroughly. you are ignoring the simplest fact that R&D can go terribly unsuccessful and you lose the lead when it happens.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: VanillaH
I hope AMD wins, dishonest companies like Intel or Rambust need to be taught a lesson.
Acanthus seems to be on the right track with his analysis of northwood vs athlon XP timeline, at least thats how i remembered anand's benchmarks.
Soviet, werent the soviets ahead of the americans in rocketry with Sputnik? How the hell did they let americans beat them to the moon? oh sure, they must have been waiting patiently with their secret project up their sleeves to send a man to mars :roll: how do i know? cuz they were so far ahead of the game and with that much money spent on R&D, how could they possibly be caught up by the americans? impossible! also, care to explain how nvidia got totally dominated by r300 based cards when gf2 ultra had no match for a while? if there is one lesson history teaches you time and again, there is no supereme ruler who rules indefinitely. bigger companies like nvidia are more reslient to defeat, so they were able to stage a comeback with their 6x00 line of cards. yet you cannot help admitting they were once dethroned by ATi so thouroughly. you are ignoring the simplest fact that R&D can go terribly unsuccessful and you lose the lead when it happens.

Actually, the way the rambus case has panned out, it really does appear that rambus was defending its IP. They didnt apply for a patent on DDR technology after the JDCEC adopted it, they amended their patent because the memory manufacturers had found a loophole to avoid paying rambus any royalties on DDR *WHICH THEY INVENTED*. The patent amendment was approved, and Rambus sued the hell out of them, and is winning.

These are the same "innocent" memory manufacturers that have been price fixing DDR for nearly half a decade now, and have been proven to do so, and fined repeatedly. Also the same memory manufacturers that charged 300% premiums on RDRAM to drive it out of the market even though it was far better technology. The same memory manufacturers that wont update the standards for DDR to go beyond DDR400 even though memory that can do DDR500 has been out for a year.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: clarkey01
Nutz will know this but AMD tend to build bigger fabs then Intel, I hear FAB 30 is equel to about two Intel fabs.

Yeah, Fab30 is definitely a big 200mm fab.

AMD's Fab30 (200mm) is about 120,000 sq ft of cleanroom space. I don't recall seeing the size of Fab36, but I believe it's ~150,000 sq ft.

Examples of some of Intel's fabs sq footage:
Fab20 (200mm) is ~77,000
D1C (300mm) is ~135,000
D1D (300mm) is ~176,000
Fab11x (300mm) is ~200,000

With some time on Google, more info can easily be found. 🙂

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: clarkey01
Nutz will know this but AMD tend to build bigger fabs then Intel, I hear FAB 30 is equel to about two Intel fabs.

Yeah, Fab30 is definitely a big 200mm fab.

AMD's Fab30 (200mm) is about 120,000 sq ft of cleanroom space. I don't recall seeing the size of Fab36, but I believe it's ~150,000 sq ft.

Examples of some of Intel's fabs sq footage:
Fab20 (200mm) is ~77,000
D1C (300mm) is ~135,000
D1D (300mm) is ~176,000
Fab11x (300mm) is ~200,000

With some time on Google, more info can easily be found. 🙂

when will Fab30 be complete and producing chips or is it already?

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
when will Fab30 be complete and producing chips or is it already?

F30 has been AMD's primary fab for a few years now.
If I recall correctly, F36 is scheduled to be ramped up in spring/summer of 2006.

 

[Wolfsraider]

I only have Intel processors running here (you can call me a fanboy it won't hurt my feelings.)

Dual Xeon 2.8 Nacona Emt64, NCCH-DL Motherboard, Ati X800 Pro PQI Turbo TCCD ram chips, 1GB 2x512, AMI/LSI Elite 1600 MegaRAID controller and 2 x15 seagate drives raid 0 with coolers, 2 36 gb raptors raid 0 with coolers, Antec True 550 EPS12V, 2 swiftech MCX604-V heatsinks, Audigy 2ZS soundcard in a CMS Stacker case and a 21 inch monitor.Nec 3520A dvd burner. CPU temps full load 24/7 (I run Distributed Computing on all my computers) (4 instances of Find-a-Drug) processor 1 54C processor 2 55C

Price all totaled was less than 1200.00 usd This was my Last purchase.

3.2 Prescott asus p4p800E Deluxe, Corsair XMS 512 pc3700 Ati 9700 Pro 21 inch monitor
raptors were bought for this computer but replaced with an 80 gig hdd sunflower psu 520 watt psu I added an sp 94 heatsink, (2 instances of Find-a-Drug) Full load temps 47-49C

total cost was 860.00 usd

3.0 Prescott Via motherboard 17 inch monitor sunflower psu 520 watt psu Ati 9550 video, Liteon combo drive, sblive sound. This runs 2 instances of Find-a-Drug, stock heatsink, 50C full load

Total cost was 308.00 usd This one was the 2nd most recent purchase.

2.8 Non HT Northwood 17 inch monitor sunflower psu 520 watt psu Ati 9550 video, Liteon combo drive, sblive sound. I run 1 instance on this computer temps full load 56C. This computer was bought on the day the 533 fsb was out, so I paid a premium for it.I have also upgraded it from where it was originally.

Total cost 850.00 usd

I have also laying around an AMD Duron 900, 750, 800 and an AMD XP 1200 iirc

Motherboards are: Biostar MK7 Turbo 2, IwillKK266 PlusR, and an Ecs KTS5A That I can get to post but no video on any of them works.
Intel I have a celeron 400 and a p3500 and 600 (with motherboard that I havent put together yet for my son.)

Is Intel guilty? we will know soon enough.
Does it matter to me ... not really
Do I want lower prices? I already get them ... notice the trend above.
Will I cry if Intel loses... Not a bit.
Will I buy AMD ...

Maybe If I can build them as easy as I can Intel (I can build an Intel in an hour and most times it works first try, The AMD parts I listed I have tried everything to no avail.)

My skills can be questioned, I tried 3 different video cards, 6 different sets of ram, 3 different cases, 3 different psu's also used pulls from my working computers to no avail.

I never had that trouble with Intel. These are My Experiences with AMD, I expect them to differ from yours.

I have always heard AMD processors were better than Intels, except for that brief northwood craze. lol

My point?

You can build Intel or amd for about the same price.

It all boils down to choice.

As far as AMD having the better processor, Could be ... But in DC HT is the KING in most cases 😛

Ok I am done now and retreating back across the lines to the safety of the Distributed Computing Community. Please have a nice day and try to be civil towards each others choices 😛

Mike

 

[frankierx]

do you think amd will win?

 

[Maximilian]

No

 

[jonnyGURU]

Wolfsraider: You can thank CPU wars between Intel and AMD for those lower prices.

As for your AMD "building issues..." Those CPU's are all 100 MHz FSB. I believe all those boards have jumpers for FSB and are set to 133MHz by default. Give that a shot. You can't usually post a CPU 33% overclocked with stock cooling. 😉

 

[Intelia]

First off I am sure Intel does give Dell deep discounts! So do most other businesses give big cuts to there largest customers.AMD is running scared right now because they know Intels next generation is going to be a superior product at a cheaper price.
Amd will not and can not win this case. You see AMD will have to prove that they can supply all those CPU"S that Intel cheated them from selling ! LOL Amd can't supply enough cpu's right now .
Another factor is ATT remember this company. By breaking it up the company was actually destroyed and my phone bill got higher not cheaper. So AMD is just Company that had 1 bright spot AMD64 that well become very dim in 2006-2007.
AMD is also selling out American tech to the Chiness. SO for me AMD is the same as any Benedict Arnold! They should be hung out to dry.