*AMD Demos First ClawHammer and SledgeHammer at IDF! Now Updated with Anand's Pics!*

AGodspeed

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2001
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http://www.businesswire.com/cgi-bin/f_headline.cgi?day0/220570444&ticker=amd

AMD's demonstration featured "Hammer" running both a 64-bit Linux and 32-bit Microsoft(R) Windows(R) operating system. The AMD "Hammer" processors were manufactured on 0.13 micron, Silicon on Insulator (SOI) technology, which together enable higher performance and lower power consumption.

Update: According to Extremetech (courtesy of Mr. Ice :)) AMD's Freb Weber said the following:

Clawhammer processors, which are designed for PCs and low-end servers, will be on sale in the fourth quarter.

In addition, Freb Weber also revealed the following:

Clawhammer, like the other members of AMD's Hammer family, uses an X86-64 architecture, which can run 32-bit as well as 64-bit code. Weber said that the chip was expected to run under a native 64-bit OS with 64-bit applications, a 64-bit OS with 32-bit programs, or under a true 32-bit OS and using 32-bit applications.

Update: Good old Anand reveals some ClawHammer and SledgeHammer pics for our viewing pleasure. Here's a summary of all the important info:

The first thing we noticed about the CPUs is that they look a lot like the Socket-478 Pentium 4 processors. In fact, AMD did borrow quite a bit from Intel in designing the packaging of the CPUs as both the ClawHammer and SledgeHammer parts feature integrated heat spreaders (IHS), a technology which Intel has been using for almost two years now. This means that there will no longer be any horror stories of crushed cores from poorly installed heatsinks or badly manufactured heatsink clips.

By far the most interesting thing about the CPUs from a physical standpoint is their pincount. The ClawHammer has 754 pins (up from 462 on the Athlon and even up from 603 on the Xeon) and the Sledgehammer has a whopping 940 pins which is just over twice as many as the current generation Athlon.

The AMD reference board goes by the name Solo, and is a pretty standard ATX motherboard. There is a single 754-pin Socket on the board for a ClawHammer CPU and it introduces what will most likely become the new (or something very similar to it) retention mechanism for AMD's Hammer line of CPUs.

The CPU was manufactured on AMD's 0.13-micron Silicon on Insulator process out of FAB30 in Dresden. Unfortunately it was not running at full clock speed (which is something that Intel's demos usually do consist of), but we were told that the CPU was running as least as fast as the "other" 64-bit CPU out there (meaning at least the 800MHz - 1GHz of Itanium/McKinley). AMD informed us that they were still on track for a Q4-02 release at full clock speed which we've always hypothesized to be at around 2GHz.

The first system was a ClawHammer running 32-bit Windows XP, straight from the box with no modifications. For those of you wondering what OS you'll need to have in order to run the Hammer processors, your current 32-bit OS will work just fine. Granted that with a 32-bit OS you don't get any of the benefits of the x86-64 architecture, one of which happens to be the additional registers made available in x86-64 mode, but it will work. The Windows XP ClawHammer system was running Microsoft Word and Microsoft Excel test scripts nonstop without a hitch.

The next system was an identical ClawHammer system running a 64-bit Linux port. This setup was a bit more interesting; the demo consisted of two windows each with a a ball bouncing inside the window. The window on the left was running a 32-bit version of the ball-bouncing demo, while the window on the right was running an x86-64 compiled version of the same demo at the same time. This was a simple demo used to show that working with 32-bit and 64-bit recompiled applications concurrently was possible on such early hardware and it worked just fine. This system had apparently been up for the past 24 hours without a single crash, granted it was only bouncing balls all day but that's still an accomplishment for 30-day old silicon.
 

BD231

Lifer
Feb 26, 2001
10,568
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We really believe the bus is dead and an on-die memory controller and HyperTransport is the long term answer

It's about f*ckin time!, running processors at GHZ+ speeds on a memory bus of 100 to 133mhz has always seemd completely retarted to me, has anyone else ever felt this way?
 

AGodspeed

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2001
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<< We really believe the bus is dead and an on-die memory controller and HyperTransport is the long term answer

It's about f*ckin time!, running processors at GHZ+ speeds on a memory bus of 100 to 133mhz has always seemd completely retarted to me, has anyone else ever felt this way?
>>

Yeah, which is probably why we'll see 800MHz FSB ClawHammers at debut...
 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
29,178
1
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I think the mods should give you "Hammer Reporter" title :)


That's good news, AMD's really gonna kick some ass with this proc.

I wonder if they'll Have MCHammer singing "Can't Touch This" at its debut ;)
 

Athlon4all

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
5,416
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Woh, DUDE YOU'RE GETTIN' A HAMMER!!!!:D:D:D This is so cool. I wonder why no mentiuon from Anand on his 2nd day IDF update.
 

Novgrod

Golden Member
Mar 3, 2001
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My opinion is that the Hammer will not be as good of a CPU as you might think. It uses unnesessary old technology (x86) and can't be compared to Intel's Itanium. It's very much like the 386, carrying all the unnesessary heritage of old, obsolete CPUs.

First, the hammer isn't competing with the itanium. Second, I have high hopes for it as a cpu. I'm crossing my fingers anyway.
 

AGodspeed

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2001
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<< My opinion is that the Hammer will not be as good of a CPU as you might think. It uses unnesessary old technology (x86) and can't be compared to Intel's Itanium. It's very much like the 386, carrying all the unnesessary heritage of old, obsolete CPUs.

First, the hammer isn't competing with the itanium. Second, I have high hopes for it as a cpu. I'm crossing my fingers anyway.
>>

SledgeHammer WILL be competing with Itanium, but I'm guessing it won't be at the very high-end niche server market level though.

SledgeHammer is supposed to have significantly more L2 cache (rumored 2x as much) as well as the AMD 8131 PCI-X dual independent bridges device, which will compliment the 8111 and 8151 AMD Hammer chipset (only the 8111 and 8151 will be used for ClawHammer, SledgeHammer will use all 3, the 8111, 8131, and 8151).
 

Bluga

Banned
Nov 28, 2000
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<< AMD's demonstration featured "Hammer" running both a 64-bit Linux and 32-bit Microsoft(R) Windows(R) operating system. The AMD "Hammer" processors were manufactured on 0.13 micron, Silicon on Insulator (SOI) technology, which together enable higher performance and lower power consumption. >>



So it's a production sample right?



<< Yeah, which is probably why we'll see 800MHz FSB ClawHammers at debut... >>



if it's true then so much for Northwood's 533 FSB.
 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
29,178
1
81


<< My opinion is that the Hammer will not be as good of a CPU as you might think. It uses unnesessary old technology (x86) and can't be compared to Intel's Itanium. It's very much like the 386, carrying all the unnesessary heritage of old, obsolete CPUs. That explains why we still have only 640K of 'main' memory which seems ridiculous. Hammer is a step back. I wonder if Intel will come out with a similar solution. I heard some rumours about it. >>



Yes, now lets step back into the real world.


That's one of the stupidest arguments ever. Even intel itself admits that the Itanium architecture is a VERY long way away from replacing x86. The world will eventually forget about x86, but its time has not yet come. AMD's extensions add many features to it, instead of just extending it (such as the new registers).
 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,636
47
91


<< SledgeHammer WILL be competing with Itanium, but I'm guessing it won't be at the very high-end niche server market level though.

SledgeHammer is supposed to have significantly more L2 cache (rumored 2x as much) as well as the AMD 8131 PCI-X bridges, which will compliment the 8111 and 8151 AMD Hammer chipset.
>>


It is of my understanding that Sledgehammer (and x86-64 architecture in general) will NOT be competing with the the Itanium/McKinley. It's competing with Xeons. Don't believe me, look here:


<< AMD on the other hand is taking a completely different approach with their x86-64 technology that?s going into Hammer. Although the Hammer architecture will be made ready for extremely parallel MP systems, it won?t be going after the same market as IA-64. Instead, x86-64 will be targeted at the majority of the high-end workstation and server market eventually trickling down to the mainstream. >>


http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1584&p=13

SMACK :)

 

AGodspeed

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2001
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<<

<< AMD's demonstration featured "Hammer" running both a 64-bit Linux and 32-bit Microsoft(R) Windows(R) operating system. The AMD "Hammer" processors were manufactured on 0.13 micron, Silicon on Insulator (SOI) technology, which together enable higher performance and lower power consumption. >>



So it's a production sample right?



<< Yeah, which is probably why we'll see 800MHz FSB ClawHammers at debut... >>



if it's true then so much for Northwood's 533 FSB.
>>

The demoed ClawHammer wasn't a final processor obviously, just a work in progress .13u SOI part.
 

Sohcan

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 1999
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<< It's about f*ckin time!, running processors at GHZ+ speeds on a memory bus of 100 to 133mhz has always seemd completely retarted to me, has anyone else ever felt this way? >>

The P4 has a 64-bit parallel bus running at 133MHz QDR (after the upcoming speed bump) for 4.2 GB/sec of bandwidth...the HT implementation in Hammer is a 16-bit 2-way serial bus running at 800 MHz DDR for 6.4GB/sec. Definitely an improvement, but not revolutionary as you may think. For the desktop and 2-8 way server space, bus latency is not as nearly as important as bandwidth, where the interconnects are relatively short and memory and IO latency is greater than bus latency.



<< It's very much like the 386, carrying all the unnesessary heritage of old, obsolete CPUs. That explains why we still have only 640K of 'main' memory which seems ridiculous. >>

rolleye.gif
Are you still running DOS? x86 has had 32-bit flat addressable memory since the 386, and OS support (from Microsoft) since Windows 95 and NT. I haven't dealt with conventional/extended memory for years.
 

mchammer187

Diamond Member
Nov 26, 2000
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<< Perhaps MC Hammer's career is on the rebound. Come on AMD, hire the guy ;) >>



that would be a dream ;)
 

AGodspeed

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2001
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<<

<< SledgeHammer WILL be competing with Itanium, but I'm guessing it won't be at the very high-end niche server market level though.

SledgeHammer is supposed to have significantly more L2 cache (rumored 2x as much) as well as the AMD 8131 PCI-X bridges, which will compliment the 8111 and 8151 AMD Hammer chipset.
>>


It is of my understanding that Sledgehammer will NOT be competing with the the Itanium/McKinley. It's competing with Xeons. Don't believe me, look here:


<< AMD on the other hand is taking a completely different approach with their x86-64 technology that?s going into Hammer. Although the Hammer architecture will be made ready for extremely parallel MP systems, it won?t be going after the same market as IA-64. Instead, x86-64 will be targeted at the majority of the high-end workstation and server market eventually trickling down to the mainstream. >>


http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1584&p=13

SMACK :)
>>

Well, I think there's simply more to it than that. Surely, Itanium/McKinley will, in one form or another, be required for servers of somesort. AMD is most definitely aiming SledgeHammer at the server market, so in a definite way SledgeHammer IS going to somehow compete with Itanium/McKinley. But like I said, SledgeHammer won't be competing with IA-64 at the very high-end of the server market, where McKinley is supposed to shine the most.

Btw, the next two sentences from Anand seem to allude to my point:

Instead, x86-64 will be targeted at the majority of the high-end workstation and server market eventually trickling down to the mainstream. In contrast, the technology and architecture behind Itanium won?t be headed for the mainstream desktop sector anytime soon.

Most everyone knows IA-64 of any kind is not going mainstream for even the distant future. But SledgeHammer and Itanium/McKinley are going for the server market in general, so they've got to clash somewhere...
 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,636
47
91


<< Well, I think there's simply more to it than that. Surely, Itanium/McKinley will, in one form or another, be required for servers of somesort. AMD is most definitely aiming SledgeHammer at the server market, so in a definite way SledgeHammer IS going to somehow compete with Itanium/McKinley. But like I said, SledgeHammer won't stand a chance at the very high-end of the server market, where McKinley is supposed to shine the most.

Btw, the next two sentences from Anand seem to allude to my point:

Instead, x86-64 will be targeted at the majority of the high-end workstation and server market eventually trickling down to the mainstream. In contrast, the technology and architecture behind Itanium won?t be headed for the mainstream desktop sector anytime soon.

Most everyone knows IA-64 of any kind is not going mainstream for even the distant future. But SledgeHammer and Itanium/McKinley are going for the server market in general, so they've got to clash somewhere...
>>


Did you listen to Anand's radio interview? Hammer won't be competing in the same space. IA-64 is targeted at high-end server platforms. It isn't intended for lower market sectors as it is cost prohibitive.

Hammer is targeted at workstation and low-end servers.

The cheapest Itanium system runs for $13,900 dollars (the next cheapest is $18,000...you see them topping out around $45,000). If you think that AMD is going to be competing in that sector, then by all means go right ahead :D
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
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seems to me sledgehammer (finally, processors with cool names) will be high end workstations and low to mid servers. while it could exist as competition to mckinley in the uber expensive server dept. i don't think AMD will market it that way. they may have a pretty good run marketing it at scientific linux clusters concerned with getting the most for their grant money.
 

AGodspeed

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2001
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<<

<< Well, I think there's simply more to it than that. Surely, Itanium/McKinley will, in one form or another, be required for servers of somesort. AMD is most definitely aiming SledgeHammer at the server market, so in a definite way SledgeHammer IS going to somehow compete with Itanium/McKinley. But like I said, SledgeHammer won't stand a chance at the very high-end of the server market, where McKinley is supposed to shine the most.

Btw, the next two sentences from Anand seem to allude to my point:

Instead, x86-64 will be targeted at the majority of the high-end workstation and server market eventually trickling down to the mainstream. In contrast, the technology and architecture behind Itanium won?t be headed for the mainstream desktop sector anytime soon.

Most everyone knows IA-64 of any kind is not going mainstream for even the distant future. But SledgeHammer and Itanium/McKinley are going for the server market in general, so they've got to clash somewhere...
>>


Did you listen to Anand's radio interview? Hammer won't be competing in the same space. IA-64 is targeted at high-end server platforms. It isn't intended for lower market sectors as it is cost prohibitive.

Hammer is targeted at workstation and low-end servers.

The cheapest Itanium system runs for $13,900 dollars (the next cheapest is $18,000). If you think that AMD is going to be competing in that sector, then by all means go right ahead :D
>>

All I'm saying is that there will be overlap of some sort. In no way is SledgeHammer competing directly with McKinley's core market aim.

We'll see anyway, won't we. :)
 

Bluga

Banned
Nov 28, 2000
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<< Did you listen to Anand's radio interview? Hammer won't be competing in the same space. IA-64 is targeted at high-end server platforms. It isn't intended for lower market sectors as it is cost prohibitive.

Hammer is targeted at workstation and low-end servers.
>>



That's a good target. IA64 isn't selling well anyway.